Do I have to open a probate case after mother’s death? She had very little, I don’t understand the point.

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Do I have to open a probate case after mother’s death? She had very little, I don’t understand the point.

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Also, who else needs to be notified beyond the obvious (banks, insurance)?

Elder Law End of Life

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My condolences on your loss. I have been settling my mother’s estate, little as it was. We had set things up with her bank so that I was co-signer of her accounts. That way I am authorized to access her money and write checks from her account. Each account had beneficiaries listed as did her IRA and life insurance. All told it is less than $70k. I was also her fiduciary for a VA pension she received.

I was her POA and executor. Note that the federal government does not recognize a POA as it is a state issued document. And a POA is void upon death.

We had sold her house 2 years ago to fund her Assisted Living stay, and that money went into a Money Market account.

I notified the bank, insurance company, VA, and the IRA institution. In Ohio you don’t need to go to probate unless there is property or if there are no designated beneficiaries. Be sure to get multiple copies of the death certificate since most will want to have or at least see one.

Luckily my sibs and I are all on good terms. We went to the bank and had the funds distributed to us as beneficiaries. I filed the paperwork to have the life insurance redeemed and divided to each of us. Am waiting for the IRA to mail me a check which I will divide between her grandchildren.

Good luck, I have been dealing with this for 4 months and am still having to send copies of items I sent months ago!

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A little late getting my $.02 in...

It all depends on your state laws AND what "very little" means.

For my mother's case, despite having a will we wouldn't have had to do probate EXCEPT for some incoming assets. She was living in MC. We had already sold her condo and did what we could with her condo possessions well before her passing. The liquid assets she had before the move were put into a trust fund for her care. The proceeds from the condo sale went into that as well. Probate does nothing with trusts, so for the most part I didn't anticipate the need for probate. Between Medicare and her other insurance, she owed nothing. The trust becomes ours when she passes.

I had forgotten about the deposit on her MC unit. That plus the interest that accrued, along with the stimulus late last year AND the anticipated recoup of the first stimulus they shorted her adds up to more than a couple of bucks, a lot more, so probate it is. Her total will be under the state requirement for small estates, but it is still a pain in the butt. Most of my working days were in the computer field, often testing complicated systems. I can't imagine anyone who doesn't have good computer knowledge navigating this behemoth e-file system they have!

I was horrified when the EC atty who had set everything up for us (once for mom and dad, wills, POAs, trust for mom, Medicaid for dad, etc, then a second time later to get a new trust set up for mom) told me to just deposit the checks in the bank and don't tell them she has passed! If it was $20, maybe. For the amount I'm dealing with, no way would I even consider doing that!

I even sent a copy of the DC and appt as exec of the will to the CU where her SS Rep Payee funds were kept. All of her SS funds (pittance) were paid towards MC. The balance every month was the amount needed to keep the account open ($25) plus a pittance of interest. I asked them to close the account and send a check made out to the Estate of... which they did. Just deposited that today.

IF your mother only had a small amount in savings or checking and you are joint on the account, you don't need probate. The funds become the joint owners automatically. If no one was joint on her account, POA will be no good after death, so it becomes a decision:

is there enough to worry about?
is there enough to even cover the cost of probate?

Unless anything else she owned was worth a lot, even ordinary possessions don't need probate, really. If she named people to get items, give it to them, esp if named in a will. If anyone (siblings) feel they are cheated, let them go to court. If she has debts remaining, those should be paid if there are funds remaining, but if you aren't joint on the accounts, how would you do that?

IF there are any questions remaining, often EC attys will give a brief (30m?) free consult. If you know all that mom had and what its all worth, bring a list to one (or more) who will do a free consult and see what they have to say.

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So sorry for your loss and pain

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If your Mother did not own anything or if she left property that she also put your name on previously there is no probate in most States if not all.

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As to who else to notify, ask the Funeral Home for a check-list. Most have that. However, if your mom was Federal Government or VA connected, there is a detailed Check-List on www.va.gov as to who to notify upon death that includes phone numbers for the Veteran's Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, and (I think) Thrift Savings Plan. Make sure you get enough of the short-form AND the long-form of her DEATH Certificate (I got 10 of each because our mom had benefits from dad which included Civil Service survivor benefits and VA Aid & Attendance benefits from dad having served in WW II [he passed 3 years before she did]. My brother & I ended up using about 8 each of the Death Certificate.) For the Insurance company, I called & asked what they wanted and they wanted the original long-form Death Certificate that shows the cause of death. That's because certain types of death (like suicide) not all insurance companies will honor the insurance payment. Also, I was glad I called the Insurance Company FIRST because mom's policy was so old (from 1954) that the company had changed ownership and had changed policy numbers! It took a few days for the Clerk to find her policy in order to to make a claim. Once found, they sent me the Claim Forms right away. Don't get discouraged -- all of the notifications take time. I was fortunate in that I had a brother who was admin smart like me, so we copied the VA Check-List and highlighted what notifications he would handle and what notifications I would handle and compared notes at the end of each day. That sped up the process. Best wishes!

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Probate is the process of proving that the will is valid and the assets must be distributed to the heirs, and if there is no will, the assets must also be distributed to the heirs. If her estate is worth more than a certain amount of money (the rules are different, depending on the state she lived in), then you have to put the estate in probate. You should be able to find out this information online without getting an attorney, especially if she doesn't have many assets. If she has a will, the will should name an executor, who is responsible for collecting the assets and distributing them. Any POA ceases when the person passes away. And then the executor takes over. With my aunt, I had to open an estate bank account. All financial accounts then need to be transferred into the estate account and then distributed. Bills should be paid from this account. The funeral home notifies social security and medicare, and social security may take back the last month's SS payment. You'll get a small death payment. Keep the estate bank account open for a few months until all bills and incoming payments have come in.

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Imho, a lot will depend on if your mother's estate was held in a trust. I am so very sorry for the loss of your mother.

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Depends which country you are in.

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We have a will and I am POA, so when my mom passes even though her house is worth a lot of money do we still have to go to probate? We know we are splitting it three ways but I do not want to go to probate.

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Oh n order to keep the home out of private, she placed one of us on the deed to the house and land.
vehicle is still in deceased FIL name, but our state is community property so upon his death MIL took possession of the car.
we have an executor for the will and upon MIL death, her assets go into a hold ( a type of probate our state has) except the home.
i recommended you research your states requirements as states may differ.
I hope that helps.

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Yep! A load of things must be done, including taxes! My friend's mom passed but everyone in the family thought she was totally broke. After a thorough search, they found she had over $3 million dollars worth of stocks, bonds and real estate, that she never told anyone about!!

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Yes, you do. My 97 year old mother passed last Nov. 27th, and had very little in assets as your mother, a small checking account that her SS was direct deposited into, and a VA Aid and Attendance fiduciary account of which I was the custodian. The banks require a Form L-8 which needs to be notarized for any co-owned accounts and for any, like the VA account for which my mother was the (now deceased) beneficiary, an Executor "Short Certificate" will be required. Both need to be accompanied by a "Letter of Instruction and Account Closure Request" which is most easily handled by a bank customer service representative. I was able to make an appointment with one of these reps, and she was able to notarize the Letter of Instruction with the L-8 form to close out the checking account and transfer any remaining funds to my personal checking. I had to fill out an "Application for Probate" form with the surrogate's court (in the county in which the deceased resided) which was pretty straightforward. You will need an original Will (if one was made) and an ORIGINAL death certificate with raised seal and personal ID (i.e., copy of driver's license). After you provide this, there is probably another document you need to have notarized and submit after which you should receive an "Executor Short Certificate" which you need to provide to the bank as well if your mother had any accounts or assets that you weren't a co-signer on (such as the VA account I described above). This all sounds very complicated, but it's really pretty easily handled. First step is to get the phone number for the County Surrogate's office and they will walk you through the process. The bank is enormously helpful as well, so make that your second step. My condolences on your loss and my personal best to you as you navigate these final steps in putting your mother's estate to rest.

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I did note another poster indicated you can handle most of this without a lawyer in the case of our limited asset situations, and that is how I did it. Most forms, instructions, etc. are available online.

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When you call social security they will notify the bank that her check goes if direct deposit to so make sure all her bills have cleared before you call them unless you have a joint account the bank will put a hold on her account. Death certificates go to banks and any other accounts like annuities and life insurance.

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SS was notified by the funeral home. They took back her last SS payment that arrived after her death. Same with the Aid and Attendance pension. I also had to mail a check to repay the December stimulus payment.

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Alot of it depends on how things were set up. If she still had her home were you on the deed or was it held in trust, were you a signer on her accounts or were you the beneficiary of those accounts? If yes to those questions you would not need to go thru probate for those items. If not you may need to go thru probate, check with her local clerks office. Also make sure to contact all credit card companies so they freeze her accounts, medical insurance, especially supplemental and perscription, contact social security, many people are surprised that if the LO passes before a certain date that the money deposited will need to be returned. I don't know how it would work if she was receiving Medicaid, that would be a question for an estate attorney. Remember that you are not responsible for her bills some may attempt to get you to agree to pay them,recording your agreement, never agree. Also doctors and hospitals have upto 18 months to submit a claim to insurance, so dont let it throw you if you get something in the mail a year after their passing. We also put a freeze on her credit by contacting credit bureaus (3).

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Having very little can mean so many things. A house in her name must be put in someone else's name. In your state that may require probate so that an entitled heir is not left out. A bank account or an asset that transferred to someone upon death wouldn't be part of the 'estate', so no legal action needed.

It really all depends on what exactly is left in her name and the law for her state.

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It depends on what state you are in. Depending on the amount of assets that you would have to probate for, it may not be worth it.

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No, you don't. You can actually do it all yourself if the estate matters are not very complicated. The forms are available online and/or at most county clerk offices. You complete them, and file them with the appropriate filing fee in the county where she resided.

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I didn’t have to do probate with my dad’s estate (still seems odd to call it an estate, that word often sounds like wealth) He did a life estate deed on his home and had placed me on his checking and savings accounts. It was time consuming and emotional but pretty easy to settle his estate. I called the hospital and rehab he’d last been in and asked for any balances left after insurance, along with the associated doctors. I also went through his list of monthly bills and settled all those.

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When my dad died we were advised by the bank to keep their joint checking account open for at least 6 months so we could pay bills and deposit any checks that arrived in his name.

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So sorry for your loss. I am currently going through this same thing. Although my parents had a plan many years before their death ( everything was in a trust-and you don’t have to be well off to establish a trust), they did leave off their home (transfer of title) . So once my mother passed , I did have to probate her will. Once probated, I received letters of testamentary with enables me to act as executor-sell property, transfer title, deal with financial institutions etc. . I would check online with the county clerks office in which she passed. This can be done without an attorney. Many of these documents and procedures are online. Even if passed with little assets, still will give you a peace of mind to have the documents necessary to close her estate. Hope this helps .

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Depends on laws in your state. Consult local Lawyer who specializes in estates or family law. Follow his/her advice.

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No probate if she had a co-owner, beneficiary or transfer on death. If she had very little in the bank without these it will cost you more for a probate than to it let go to unclaimed property of the State.

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I think the amount of assets depends on the state. In California, assets above $250,000 without a will require probate.

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Is there an option to become Mom's POA. I am my mother's POA, because she has very little. Probate can be costly and lengthy. Being POA,I am able to take care of property, medical and health decisions and finances. Soc Sec granted and approved me also as her advocate/representative. Mom has nothing but personal items and pension. No point of probate, which can be very lengthy. I know a person who had to do this (probate) and it took almost 2 years.

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POA ends upon the death of your mother. I don't know what would be next for you. Executor of her estate, I assume. I think that no matter how little she has, if you are not named on any of her financial instruments, i.e. checking account, you cannot perform any finalization of accounts.

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Is there an option to become Mom's POA. I am my mother's POA, because she has very little. Probate can be costly and lengthy. Being POA,I am able to take care of property, medical and health decisions and finances. Soc Sec granted and approved me also as representative.

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Does she own property and have money? When my mother died she just had furniture and household items so there was no need to do anything. She did have enough money in the bank to pay for her funeral that my sister was able to get out because she was on her checking account. If she has anything in banks and you’re not on the account, you will probably need to file probate.

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Homecare, NO, you do not have to do probate unless your mom had more assets than the state allows to avoid it.

Since this varies widely from state to state, I recommend going to your attorney general website and search for a non probate affidavit.

This form will tell you how much the state allows before you are required to open probate.

I am sorry for your loss and I pray that God grant you strength and wisdom to get through this difficult time.

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MACinCT is right. Cash out whatever you can now if you're her POA.
If she doesn't have real estate or other tangible property holdings, then it's not worth it for you to probate a will.
When she passes away, the funeral director you have her arrangements with can take care of informing social security.
POA expires after a person's death. So, you won't be able to close out bank accounts or really do anything else unless you are also the executor of her will. Then you have to go through all the headache and red tape of filing the will and dealing with the probate court.
Is your mom going into a care facility? If so then whatever she has will go to them anyway and there won't be anything to probate in a will.
If she's still home and being cared for (without assistance from the state) then I'd tell you to put her car in your name if she has one, and to start withdrawing from her bank account in cash.
Don't spend it. Get a safety deposit box in the bank and hold onto it. If comes the time when a care facility becomes a reality and there's a Medicaid look-back period, well that can be handled different ways.

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Homecare, are there any assets that were titled jointly between your mother and you or someone else, and for which title would pass directly on death? If all assets are held jointly with rights to survivor(s), there would be nothing to probate.

I would agree that checking with the local probate department to get a list of assets that have to be probated would be helpful. If Mom had none, then you don't have to deal with Probate.

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I was told by a neighbor, who worked in the Probate Office the following:

Executor is the person assigned in a Will.

Administrator is when there is no will but someone is assigned to handle an estate.

Affidavit is when there is less than 20k in the estate. This one needs no probate. But with all u receive a Short Certificate, for a fee, giving you the ability to handle whatever estate there is.

Call your probate office and see what they say. Each state is different.

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Joann, just so you know, the value varies state to state. AZ is 75k and UT is 100k before probate is required. These are the 2 I have just dealt with, that is how I know it is different.

However, the new administration is changing everything that puts more money in government coffers, so it could be different in a month.

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Look up the rules for your state. Often for a very very small estate you do not need to do this. The funeral home usually notifies Social Security. But I notified them as well. I also notified the three credit agencies, Transunion, Experian, I forget the name of the third and told them not to issue credit in this name. I also told IRS and DMV. I did these by mail and with COPIES of birth certificate. Bank needs to know, especially the one that gets the Social Security Check. Notify all creditors and cancel all credit cards in her name. You do not have to pay her debts. Her estate (what there is of it) stands to pay her debts. If there is a car you may need to file just to have permission to handle it; but if she transferred title already to shared title then it belongs to the person who is on the title with her. A good, simple and cheap book is Kurt Grube's Please Don't Die, but if You Do Die, What Do I Do Next? I got mine on amazon. If there is a will it usually has to go through probate I believe, or be filed.

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Alva, do you mean they should send copies of the DEATH certificate?

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I think it also depends on the state and the amount. As an example relatives in CA have to probate a late relative who did not assign POA or transfer anything even though he had become quite ill a few years ago and relied on their help. He owned a small condo which being in CA is worth over the amount the state requires a percentage of because that is CA. I don't think most states are quite so punitive but it would be best to find out the rules.

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Do I have to open a probate case after mother’s death? She had very little, I don’t understand the point.

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