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Four years ago my FIL signed his house over to my husband with FIL having living rights. Three years ago we moved in to help care for him after a bout of colon cancer and a colostomy. We had to sell our house (which we made no profit on) and move in with dad - his home was bigger. Dad then put his house in both my husband and my name so that we would get the house if something happened to him. Dad's health has diminished since that time, with the onset of dementia and other things. I know there is a 5 year look back for medicaid but if we had to put dad in a facility, would they take the home we have lived in after he uses all his funds and has to go on medicaid? We have put a great deal of money in the home since living here.

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Also dyanpeach.....when you call NAELA attys be sure to mention that you anticipate having to deal with estate recovery a possible lineal heirship and do they (the NAELA atty) have a relationship with merp savvy probate attys.
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I'd suggest you find out how your state does the caregiver exemption from estate recovery (MERP). And start putting together a binder to document why you qualify as caregiver and on ever penny you have spent on the house as you may want to do your own claim or lein on the estate for a share of those costs.

Also work up a face sheet on mom....like all info on her, her marriages, divorces, all children (even if dead), property, etc. it's all about establishing your heirship. You can do all these and really if you don't the atty. or their paralegal staff will & charge you.

Then meet with a NAELA atty to come up with a plan once mom has died. If she would not do a DPOA, did she also refuse to do a will? If so, state will view her as dying intestate - which usually means all assets escheat to the State, it is a VERY VeRY disadvantaged position for family & heirs. You will do a lineal heirship and that face-sheet is going to provide wgat is needed to do this. It's gonna be mucho importante to have a plan in advance of her death thought through by you & an atty. good luck!
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I moved in with my mom, from an apartment, abut 8 to 9 years ago. She went into a NH May 2015. About 80 to 90 % of the years I've lived in her home, I have made the payments on it and paid the utilities. Her dementia was getting to bad to do this and she refused to give me POA over her affairs. She is on Medicaid and Medicare. Her retirement check and social security check go to the NH. She has 2 different bank accounts with less than $2,000 in each. I'm still living in the house as it is cheaper to do so. What happens to her assets and bank accounts when she passes and will I be forced to move out?
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you are right, rovana.....I did a typo error. I did mean Medicaid....not Medicare. And our attorney WAS talking about Medicaid.
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Joannes, I think you are talking about Medicaid, not Medicare. It makes sense for the taxpayers to be reimbursed for what they shelled out for a nursing home before there is any inheritance.
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I am from Arizona. Our eldercare attorney recently told me that while the federal law states that Medicaid can get the house, or whatever amount of the sale adds up to what Medicaid paid out for care, that there is only one case on file, I think he said, from Nevada, where the government actually tried to come in and take the house after the death of the last owner. He says it is very unlikely that it would happen to us. I've been wondering if there is anyone on here who has actual knowledge of Medicare coming in and taking assets from a home after the deaths of home owners?
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Suegirl wrote: "....snip..... Putting the house in a trust for my Brother and I. My Mother could live there as long as she kept the house up and paid taxes. She's now 91 and needs passport? We consulted a Elder Attorney and he said Medicaid, upon our Mothers death would get 1/4 of the sell of house. We're in Ohio."

If you put it in a trust, likely her name was still on the house as trustee, as well as yours as co-trustees. That means it is still an asset in which she has partial ownership. (I'm from Ohio also originally.) So, when the house is sold after her death, Medicaid would be entitled to part of the proceeds.

I don't know what the look-back period currently is in Ohio. Most states are 5 years, but that is not uniform across the country.

The only way you could have avoided this was to completely remove your mother's name from anything associated with the house and had the deed, property taxes, etc. placed in your names only. Then you could have allowed her to "rent" the house from you until she was no longer able to live there.
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MariettaGirl wrote: "My husband and I put our house and some property in life estate eight years ago he was turn down for Medicaid I wander why."

Because it is an asset with his name on it. Medicaid looks at both income and assets to determine eligibility. I don't know what other "property" was involved, but if you own anything except one primary residence, then you are too affluent for Medicaid. Medicaid was designed for persons at or below the Federal Poverty Level.
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Technically, Medicaid could take the house because "signing it over" to somebody else makes it look like your FIL was trying to hide assets. It might have been more fortuitous to have put the house in a living trust with you, husband, & FIL all on the as co-trustees. However, even a trust is subject to the 5-year lookback period.

If he does go into a NH, they will take all of his SS and all of his pension (if he has one) towards the cost of his own care - and then bill Medicaid for the remainder. Since you did not mention your "mother," I assume that she is either deceased or they were divorced. If she is deceased, then there is no "community spouse" rule at play where she is allowed to live in the house without Medicaid taking it as an asset. If he is widowed, all of his assets are "fair game" as far as Medicaid is concerned.

You definitely need to consult with an attorney in your state, since each state runs its own Medicaid and the rules vary.

Meanwhile, start creating a paper trail of every dime you have put into the house and his care from your own pockets!
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Our parents got a divorce 60+ years ago. Putting the house in a trust for my Brother and I. My Mother could live there as long as she kept the house up and paid taxes. She's now 91 and needs passport? We consulted a Elder Attorney and he said Medicaid, upon our Mothers death would get 1/4 of the sell of house. We're in Ohio.
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my husband and I put our house and some property in life estate eight years ago he was turn down for Medicaid I wander why
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Ask Medicaid what their guidelines are since they vary from state to state. Thank you for taking care of your father-in-law.
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Both deeds were done by an attorney who did say, there is a five year look back. However, at the time the last quitclaim deed was done, he felt that medicaid (IN) would look at how long we have lived here and most of the time they do not go after the home if a child is residing there, unless it is worth a lot of $. But he is not an elder care attorney.
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My husband does have POA. The house was quitclaim deeded to my husband a year before we moved in, with life estate rights for my FIL four years ago. After we moved in, the house was quit claim deeded to my husband and myself, with the FIL completely removed from the deed. This was done 3+ years ago. We pay all property taxes - which are in our name, and do all the upkeep on the home. We also pay all utilities. When we first moved in, I provided 24 hour care because FIL was sent home on a diabetic diet, diabetic testing, colostomy and special diet with that also. I also provided wound care, meals, laundry, cleaning, personal care. 6 months later he went thru a colostomy reversal which I again did wound care and all the other stuff. He has also had back surgery which again, I had to do wound care, personal care; cataract surgery and is facing another back surgery. My husband does all the maintenance because FIL can't do much. And I do all meals, laundry, medicine dispensing, cleaning. Not sure what else they could want if something was to happen before the 5 year look back period. Financially we already take care of everything at the house. As far as medicaid, I already figured if he had to go to a nursing home, they would take almost all of his soc sec. And it's not like the house is worth a ton of $.... Maybe I should get more documentation on the books as far as what surgeries and when and the care I had to provide....???
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Definitely consult a lawyer in your state!
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Cks - your situation has many already done legal layers. Really my suggestion is you are going to need an elder law attorney to review all & do this BEFORE your FIL applies for Medicaid. You can assume that there will be a transfer penalty inquiry on the house done by Medicaid, and you want to be prepared for this. Get in detail all the costs you have spent on the house together before the meeting too to take to law office along with all legal on the home from when dad first bought it.

For the caregiver agreement, each state seems to do this differently. Medicaid although a joint federal & state program is administered by each state uniquely. So you need to find out exactly how caregiver exemption is done for your state. Some states require a letter from a MD or MSW (on letterhead with state license # & signature) as to specific caregiving needed, their involvement with the elder during a period of time, etc. for that exemption to go through. If it (property transfer) can be done before they enter a NH, thats 1 way. But if the caregiver exemption happens after the elder passes away, that's another approach. Either way the caregiver better have the $ to be able to pay for all costs on the house whether in their name of not.

One thing that comes up on this site over & over again is family is taken aback and surprised that their elder once in a NH on Medicaid has to do a required copay to the NH of basically all their income. The SOC - share of cost. So if you want to keep your parents home whether by caregiver exemption or other exclusions or exemptions to estate recovery (MERP) you kinda have to have the $ to pay on all on the home from now through forever and keep documentation on all costs paid.

Whether its feasible depends on your financial situation. And also a pretty good and flexible sense of humor too! If you live at the home being able to pay on all is pretty central. If you have your own home but want to keep your on medicaid NH parents house for whatever reasons, to me is like having a 2nd or 3rd home but without assurance of ownership but with all the costs. It runs a risk of not working out as hoped for. Most of us are risk adverse but if your not then go for it.
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In your question, you mentioned several ownership transfers of your father-in-law's house. Were the deeds that transferred ownership drafted by an attorney? If yes, you could ask the attorney who drafted and filed the deeds to explain how the current ownership fits in with your state's Medicaid eligibility regulations.

You mentioned that you have used your own funds to improve your father-in-law's house. There was a case in my state, Andrews v. Division of Medical Assistance, 68 Mass. App. Ct. 228, 861 N.E.2d 483 (App. Ct. 2007), where the courts decided that an elder's Medicaid application had priority over all the time and money her daughter and son-in-law had put into her house. Of course, this case would not apply in your state, but it does demonstrate the importance of getting good advice from an attorney in your state.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11648911402272235067&hl=en&as_sdt=40000006

Several agingcare.com community members have mentioned the Caregiver Child exception to Medicaid transfer rules. An attorney advising your father can explain how this very important exception could help in you. In my state (Massachusetts), the Medicaid agency strictly enforces this exception, so you should make sure that your husband and your father comply with the caregiver exception requirements in your state. An elder law attorney in your area could explain how Medicaid would view the current ownership arrangement.

Has your father-inlaw designated a person to act for him under Power of Attorney? This is very important if his capacity declines and decisions must be made on assets and property ownership.
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The house was the FIL's and son and daughter in law have been providing the care.

Spouses are entitled to keep the house if the other one goes into care. Though they may lein the property after death for reasons. Medicaid is not out to impoverish a spouse or cause them to require Medicaid.
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I wonder if the 2 year caregiver law can apply to a spouse. I never heard of that.
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See an elder law attorney. Have you used Dad's address on everything? You are very fortunate that he had your names put on the house while he was competent. And most states allow the transfer of a house to a family caregiver after providing care for a period of two years if the care was medically necessary.
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You probably fall under the two year caregiver law.
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Check with your State Medicaid office since you and your husband had been living in the house taking care of his father, thus you had been saving Medicaid money from having FIL in a nursing home for a couple of years.... see what are the current rules and regulations for this case.
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