I have a developing situation I am not sure how to handle. Any help giving me ideas would be appreciated. First off a little back ground. My Father took ill about two years ago. He passed away about a year ago. For one year I moved him near me in Florida and took care of him. The one thing he had going for him was he had some money so it was not on me. I had to liquidate his assets and took it on the nose because he lived in Michigan and things there are stupid hard to sell at any kind of fair price. But I did it and my wife helped me along the way.
Now to the existential problem today. My wife's family father and mother are ill. Her Mother has Alzheimer, I know unless there is an autopsy you can not know this but it sure fits the bill. She is 75 and forgets things from moment to moment. Her father is 79 and is doing his best to take care of her. They live about 600 miles away in a small town in Tenn. They bought an old farm house and my wife's sister and two kids 21 and 17 live with her all in the same small farm house. Her sister and two kids get the down stairs and her parents live in the attic they converted into a small one bed apt with bath and small kitchenette. It is getting to a point that they are going to have a hard time making it up and down the stairs. They also have no funds as they were and still are Jehovah's Witnesses. I can remember arguing years ago they needed to save money for retirement and was told the end was near so they did not need to worry about this. I can not say much as spilt milk is spilt milk and to say I told you so does nothing to fix problems. It just makes me mad as I left this cult many years ago over just this kind of crap and started to save money for retirement albeit later than I should have. My father in law quit his job back in the 70s at General Motors and moved to Northern Michigan to "spread the word" I.E BS of the cult. He would have about 1700 a month extra if he would have stayed in and retired from GM.
That said My wife's sister does not work, she is 45 years old and stays in bed for most of the day every day and supposedly suffers from depression. I can not say this is not so but it seems she is very lazy. I used to arguer with her also years ago that you need to plan for the future and was told the end was near bla bla bla. Now she is divorced with one kid who she gets a small amount of money a month for the next year till she is 18. She lives off of my wife's parents. They only bring in 1600 a month on SS.
My wife went to visit a few weeks ago and her father was asking in a round about way to help. I refuse to help her sister or kids not out of any malice but out of our preservation. I also am not going to let her throw money at her parents due to this being a temporary fix that will not fix anything but delay the inevitable. I do not know if it would even help for her to move near them to help take care of her mother. I just do not see a good way to help. We were looking at retiring to Arkansas and bought property there and could build the house with a finished basement to move her parents but I don't think they will move.
I told my wife off the top of my head that her parents need to call the local social worker to see what is available. People who are on Medicaid can get medicare and on social security can get SSI if they are desperate enough. Also meals on wheels and if one of her sisters kids can take care of their grandmother sometimes they can qualify to get paid to do so if they are in need of special care. First off they need to exhaust the provisions of the Government. I feel I owe my wife but I also know you row a boat into the middle of drowning people and you will get swamped and drown yourself. I feel this is a no win situation.
Any time you visit, it's always a good idea to call ahead because some people just don't like surprises when they could come at the worst possible times, which can also cause aggravation in some people. There are privacy laws for a reason, and you just have to be able to honor those laws and still be able to check on your loved ones.
One thing I learned on this site is about in-home video monitoring from a remote location. Perhaps this would be a good idea if your elders show any discomfort with the frequency of visits or if they show discomfort with the unannounced ones. It's always good to plan ahead and confirm with them since unannounced visits can come at the worst possible times, causing even more aggravation. I among many others in this particular kind of group just won't answer the door to unexpected or unannounced company. Some people who live alone have this practice especially knowing unannounced visitors can and sometimes do come at the worst possible times. Let's say you're in the bathroom taking care of business when the doorbell rings or let's just say you got undressed and you're headed to the shower, or perhaps you're in the shower or just got out. That's among the worst possible times it's not really a good idea to just show up unannounced. This does not give the person a fair enough chance to be ready for your visit and it can actually come across as very rude and inconsiderate. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, but take it from someone who even had one particular unannounced visit at a time I was doing math homework as a college student. The person showing up unannounced and just walking right in and refusing to leave really didn't help matters any especially since I had an upcoming test. No matter the situation, just showing up unannounced can be an aggravation for some people. You may want to consider this before just showing up because you never know how the person really feels even though they may not have the guts to tell you the real truth and may lie to you to spare your feelings. I've learned a lot from experience and I've had a chance to learn from other people. Now that I'm older and more mature, I strongly believe in doing unto others as I would want them to do unto me. If I would not want an unannounced visitor, I practice not showing up unannounced because I prefer to wait for an invite. That way, the person doesn't (even secretly) experience aggravation or resentment toward me. When expecting visitors, I'm one of those kinds of people who must know when they're coming and what time to watch for them. I practice the same respect for others.
You were brought up in a cult and broke out of it. I can't imagine how hard that was. You have assisted others to break loose. The JW has had a terrific toll on your life and from your posts I begin to understand that they have a toll on the greater society. Now you are trying to navigate this maze in order to bring assistance to your Inlaws without getting caught back up in the quicksand of cult life. It's a really tough problem. You might have some answers for the family but I don't imagine they want to hear criticism of their chosen life's work. I can understand the SIL being depressed. She's trapped and wrapped up in an apathetic life which she has most likely also fostered upon her children. As you mentioned, it's harder to stay blind today than it was a few generations ago. Her life will most likely be better when her parents are out of it because it will force action of some type to survive. FIL may not have converted many others but it seems he's held his daughter and her family hostage in this mind set of waiting. So you already know that the Inlaws aren't going to leave their attic to move into your basement. Have you considered that the only way to help them might be to get the whole family jump started? Has the 21 yr old been pressed into service for the JW? Does he work? Is he contributing to the household? Who is the person of the five that might emerge as the leader or spokesperson to get any assistance that can be had for the family there in Ten? The FIL, the nephew or maybe the niece? I think I would look for services via Internet as has been suggested and enlist the aid of the most likely person in the family to help follow up. You might start with a visit by the area on aging folks to get the Family on their radar. It might be easier to just send money or your wife to navigate assistance. But first you might try giving an encouraging word to the nephew with a heads up on the fallout you expect for his family over say the next 5 years ( if that's not looking out too far). His mother needs help now more than anyone you've mentioned. Perhaps your wife has a feel for which family member might be more willing to reach out.
IMO, real help would be to save the kids to stop the madness. You probably aren't too popular with them but I hope you continue to analysis the situation and support your wife's efforts.
One more trick you can also try is to only bring in enough food to feed each person for that meal. You can also consider taking the elders out to eat, you can even take them to soup kitchens if there's a good one locally. The idea is to temporarily minimize the amount of food stored at home long enough for the deadbeats to leave. This is what should happen to people who won't work. These days there's computers, which give more opportunities to contribute to society (everyone can do something). It's just not fair to the aging parents that they're broke and doing without necessities due to deadbeats.
Set some very strict rules and enforce them with very serious consequences.
The idea is to drive out the deadbeats because they're not contributing to the household, or even the elders bank account. Ever wonder why elders are often broke towards the middle or end of the month, and maybe even sooner? This is only one example of why this happens among other contributing factors.
The deadbeats should both be working and bringing in some form of income and paying rent. Right now it sounds to me like they're also squatters in this case. I recently posted on how to very effectively get rid of squatters in another case because the tips I gave is exactly what I personally would definitely do in a heartbeat.
If the other young person in this house is old enough to work, that person should also follow the strict curfew. In the case of minors (specifically teens), there are odd jobs they can do such as mowing the lawns during the summer and shoveling snow during winter. I'm sure there are probably other odd jobs they can do to make money and contribute to the household, and this would be a very smart move. I would also call the CPS and have the minor taken. That way, at least one of them is out of the house and away from the elders they've been taking advantage of. When CPS investigates, be honest and tell the truth and admit you want these people out of that house because you plan to go for guardianship of the elders. Sometimes one elders are being unfairly treated and financially abused in anyway or neglected, it's often necessary for a court appointed guardian to take over. This is when the APS comes in handy. I think the CPS will probably act much faster if there is a minor living in the house and you're trying to put them out with the deadbeat, because they'll definitely take the minor who becomes suddenly homeless and is not being taken care of.
I'll clue you in on something else:
If the elders are constantly broke, they can't really afford themselves let alone trying to raise a child. If there's a single nonworking parent, there's obviously no income so that nonworking single-parent can't afford the child either, and that's when kids shouldn't even be in the picture. This is where CPS comes in handy. Elders aren't responsible for someone else's kids or their duties, especially when elders are very often just scraping by to survive. These deadbeats are living off the elderly couple now, but ask them what will happen when something finally happens to the elders and they're no longer there to support them?
It sounds to me like the farmhouse belongs to the elderly couple, so why are they sleeping in the attic of their own house? Someone else here was also wondering about this, but I, too am also wondering since it's the elderly couple's house. Someone needs to authoritatively step in and stop the situation because no one should be taking advantage of the elders. I can see them helping someone willing and able to return the favor by running errands and doing other stuff such as using their own money to contribute to the household. However, what angers many people is when the elders are being constantly drained and no one steps in to stop it. As a general rule, if you know something wrong is occurring and do nothing to stop it, you're just as guilty as the other guilty parties, and society frowns on those kinds of people. Just hearing of something like this is enough to anger any conscientious person, and because something like this also angers me, I definitely have a few tricks up my sleeve, because if I was in this situation, I would definitely act.
As for the 40 something-year-old person who stays in bed all day and doesn't contribute to the household:
It's time someone steps in and starts by making an effective plan and having back up in order to carry it out. When that plan is in place, it's time to carry it out. *I think it's more effective if someone who's been in the military a while to step in on behalf of the elders, (they serve to protect even our elders). (I would opt to hire a marine).
* Next, boldly enter the room where she's sleeping and turn on a bright ceiling light and shout at her to get off the bed right now. Remove all the linens and flip the bed over like the military would when dealing with trainees who won't get up. If the bed can't be flipped, the mattress can still be flipped unless it's a waterbed. In the case of water beds, you can pull the plug and let the water out, soaking the deadbeat.
* When the leach is out of bed, shame the young people, (specifically the unemployed deadbeat) for letting elders sleep in the attic when they themselves should be sleeping in the attic and not the elderly parents, especially since the elderly parents are now having trouble using the steps/ladder. Ask the young people what if something happened and one of the elders fell back down, starting decline? Remind them they would be held responsible if anything happened to either of the elders. Of course the younger ones don't care or they wouldn't be letting mom and dad sleep in the attic! This is why it sounds like it's time to shame them into changing things, and definitely bring up these points.
When shaming these people on what they're doing to their elders, start removing all other comforts and start by taking the TV remote away from them, and if there's a TV in that person's room, unplug it and remove it along with any other luxuries. If either of the deadbeats sleeps on a bed, couch, recliner, floor pillow or beanbag, flip it over as soon as you see either of these non-contributing leaches on any of those items. Neither of them sound like they're contributing to the household, so they don't deserve to be comfortable, (especially if they're not making any effort to better their lives). Make them sit (and sleep) on the floor (if they insist on staying). If they insist on staying, set a very strict curfew. Make them leave the house at sunrise and look for jobs, and not return until bedtime, (and set a bedtime). If they're not in by the set curfew, lock them out for the night (and don't give in by letting them back in). This is the practice of homeless shelters because the aim is not to enable people, but force them into productivity. Don't feed them at all no matter how much they beg and plead. Don't give into anything they say or do if they return past curfew and you've already locked up for the night. It was their fault they didn't follow curfew, make them pay the consequences. Put a lock on the fridge and all of your pantry cupboards. Yes, lock up all the food and keep the key on you. Another thing you can do to secure your staples if your cupboards aren't really high enough quality to be locked, get an extra fridge and put a lock on it. Remove all of your staples and store them all in the extra fridge and lock it up. You can also use a deep freezer for the staples, just make sure it's not in use (and put a lock on that). Don't even leave a clue of even a crumb for them. God's word even says that if a man won't work, neither shall he eat. The same goes for non-contributing women, because there should be no deadbeats anywhere.
One more trick you can also try is to only bring in enough food to feed each person for that meal.
Getting back to Edteach's predicament, forgive me if I've missed huge chunks, but what does your wife want to do, Ed?
- they certainly will refuse to move anywhere
- probably living a somewhat hermit existence they won't accept outside help (my mother who wasn't at all religious refused to have anyone in the house)
- providing them with information on where to get help will fall on deaf ears
- I'm concerned they'll place such a guilt trip on your wife that she'll move in with them and Bam there goes your marriage and your future
Due to age and mental/physical issues it's only a matter of time before one of them falls down the stairs, is badly injured and taken to hospital. At that point hospital social workers step in and will guide you with regards to placement somewhere safe. My mother suffered from strokes, parkinsons and dementia and lived on the main floor but was constantly falling.
In the end she fell twice in one evening ... 8 p.m. and 2 a.m. The last fall she was in a pool of blood and out of it. I couldn't lift her so called an ambulance. Knowing I could no longer manage her alone 24/7, she spent a month in hospital then was moved to a lovely nursing home with skilled staff 24/7. She screamed and hated on everyone for the next 3 years. She passed last fall.
Unfortunately this is often how it ends. Please keep us updated as to how things are going. Dog Bless and Woof!
I just thought that it wasn't a factor in his approach to helping, which is how I interpreted the comment you made. And I do think he obviously wants to do that - he wouldn't have posted if he wasn't trying to identify and weigh his options.
He's just searching for the best method on how to handle the issues, knowing that their JW beliefs might interfere with his efforts. That's my interpretation..
This bonding is also used by other cults, including religious ones. I understand what Ed is writing - someone in the JW doesn't think for him or herself but needs to blindly follow the "doctrine" of the "leaders."
I suspect that even if he told the JW elders in his family that they need to prepare, his words would be unheeded and worthless because he's left the cult.
This is where I think that Tacy's observation that his "bitterness" was affecting his thinking is wrong - Ed knows what these people will think and what they won't think, especially whether they're open enough to realize that they need help and will accept it.
The Amish also have their own methods of control, brutal in my opinion as to the way the teenagers are treated.
This is not an attempt to instigate disagreement on religion, but rather to provide support to Ed and hopefully insight from someone who's familiar with another religious cult. Brainwashing IS a major form of control.
Moving on now, and back to what Ed can do....and he has some good advice on that aspect.
Trouble is that a lot of parents will say no, they aren't going to move. When that happens you just have to wait until the right time. Until they are ready it may make more sense for the SIL to move upstairs and let them have the downstairs. Falls in the elderly can be the start of major problems -- loss of mobility, brain damage. You can have an occupational therapist (Medicare allows) to come in and assess for safety.
I wish you didn't have to be so involved. Depression is real. One of the symptoms of it is lethargy that looks an awful lot like laziness. I don't know her, so can't say one way or the other. I hope you can get this worked out without driving yourself crazy. I wouldn't want to have to untangle the mess you're dealing with. You have my sympathy. Big hugs to you and your wife.
If the sister is really that depressed perhaps she should be hospitalized....leaving her untreated could be really scary - if only to her son. I'm guessing your wife feels that she (and you?) should be helping fix this situation, but I don't see how you could help....if your in-laws are unwilling to change the situation and are willing to let their daughter and her son continue to mooch off them....there is NOTHING that you do that will change the situation, except you will be poorer for trying (and not just monetarily!).
I really hope you take the others advice, find and send them the information on programs available to them in their state and then just back off and let them do something for themselves.