What to do with a parent who requires in home care 24/7 and is trying to kick the providers out?

Hang tough Jim.

Just another fall will do it - & will get her more care. Yes, let the ambulance service in.

An 'unwitnessed' fall needs a looking over by professionals & may need treatment. If Mum cannot be put on her feet, walk unaided & make good sense or if crew suspect injury - her refusal for treatment crashes up against the crew's duty of care. Especially if head strike/suspected stroke/brain bleed - anything that would change cognitive function.

*No-one saw her fall - she may have hit her head* and/or *her thinking is not making sense, I think there's something wrong* if true - use it! I have... with results.

After her most recent fall my mother spent two weeks in rehab. Three days in she started in about going home and that she didn’t need to be there. Her roommate who is also 102 tried to reason with my mother. She told her she fell once and knew she couldn’t be home any longer. My mother wouldn’t listen . She arrived home were her usual sour disposition and got mad because our aide was talking with me and not her. Next thing we know she is screaming to the heavens ,where is my husband. I left at that point. Before I left I explained the medical alert system I got for her. Last night I received a call from the medical alert company and was told the alert had triggered. They called my mother twice and she hung up on them both times. An ambulance was sent . My mother wouldn’t let them in the house. I went over and let them into the house with my mother screaming get out of my house. After they left I again for the upteenth time tried to reason with her. I got nowhere. Today a nurse came to see her for follow up care and was disturbed by her answers. Everyone falls and she doesn’t worry about it. The nurse voiced concern for her safety with my mother saying she is fine. The nurse said multiple falls are not okay. She went on to tell my mother OT and PT would be seeing her three times a week. My mother said I don’t need them. The whole thing is maddening. I know I have said I would resign at POA,but her attorney asked me not to go that route. For the moment I won’t.

I am back again. This past Wednesday my mother fell again. The girl that sees her in the morning found her on the floor and called me. I had her call 911. My mother threw them out when they arrived. That morning we were in the middle of a huge storm. I had a million things going on at my own home. Trees down,no power,etc. I needed to get my generator going to power my house. I got in my car and drove through downed trees and wires to deal with my mother. I told her we were going to the hospital immediately. We arrived at the ER where she was examined,had xrays,walked for physical therapy,etc. PT said she could not be home alone. The doctor said we cannot force her to do anything. They brought in a case manager who observed her walking and agreed with PT. If she went home she would fall. They sent her to rehab for two weeks. After two days she started badgering me about going home. I walked out on her. She doesn’t get it and doesn’t care how her antics affect any of us. APS signed off on her case saying it was unsubstantiated. This after six falls in eight months with three falls resulting in a brain bleed,broken shoulder,and broken hip. I have spoken to mom’s attorney at length and she asked me to stay on as POA. I just wrote her and said I am done. My mother won’t listen to reason and I have had enough of spending days at the ER or rehab center. I spent all of last summer,every day from July fifth to September 29th at the rehab. We cancelled all of our plans for the summer. Enough is enough. Tomorrow I will call her doctor and call APS and ask if a sixth fall is enough for them to get involved.

I just re-read the part about burns on your Mum's arms. Oh dear oh dear.

From experience told by others in my life & on this forum three things jump out that the *living at home* days are about to hit crises & end: #1 fall #2 kitchen fire/accident #3 wandering from home. My guess here is kitchen fire.

Time will be up soon. Then it will be HER battle to try to return home.

I am waiting for a similar event in my family. I want to be able to position myself in the *sweet spot* of standing well back to protect myself emotionally but close enough to be her advocate. I will not be wearing my well worn Family-of-origin-emotional-response tee-shirt but my Common Sence Hat. (My visual is a fireman's helmet).

Remember: you didn't cause her to get old, nor can you fix it.
However it goes, the outcome will be based on decisions she makes or already made.

I just read your thread. Wowses. BIG empathy for you - you are up to the eyeballs in it.

Please please read the book Boundaries by Dr Henry Cloud & Dr John Townsend - or just google & read bits. Warning: It's very religious but even I (non-believer) can read it in a more secular way - the underlying mesages still work.

It's about boundaries, how they work & what happens when yours don't work properly. Each person being responsible for themselves - carying their own knapsacks in life & NOT carrying other peoples.

Parents, elderly or not, still have to carry their own. If they need help, then they can arrange it (if competent). YOU can choose to help if you want - when & how much.

Sorry for my absence. Things with my mother are generally the same. She will not accept any help in the house . APS would like her to remain home. I have offered to have a person fill the days our regular aide isn’t there. My mother tells me yes and then says to my sister she will kick the new girl out after a couple of days. I told my mother my days of being at her home every day are over. I bring her dinner every night and she gives me a hard time about the stove. Last night we had a big fight over the stove with her telling me the burns on her arms were nothing nor were the fires. Her rational was she didn’t burn the house down. During the summer when I was up to my eyeballs with her dare we lost our beloved dog at eleven years old. We are dog lovers. We waited a bit before talking about getting another dog. We inquired with the breeder we bought our last dog from,but they wouldn’t have any pups until mid year. I found another breeder and he had what we were looking for in a pup. She arrived last week . My mother is now angry because I am not at her house all the time. I told her it was her choice to not have extra help. We now have an nine week old pup and I need to be around. My sister was there today to bring her dinner and she says to my sister call your brother and tell him to get over here. I told my sister to tell mom no go. I was taking care of the puppy and my wife had a terrible head cold. My mother in law was sundowning . I told mom yesterday you made decisions. Take responsibility for them.

That’s a good answer caregiverL. I never thought of that. I will use that the next time my mother is in the hospital and the doctor says she can go home without any help!! Thank you. That helps me!

Tell the dr if she falls as a result of the unsafe discharge & he said she is able to make her own decisions, that there will be legal action, You’ll see how fast he’s going to change his mind!

JimL, there is nothing you can do about it if your mother is of sound mind and competent and refused help. I am going through the same thing with my 95 year old mother. She is competent and of sound mind so there is nothing I can do about it. My conscience won’t let me walk way completely. I just have backed off and don’t go to her house every day anymore. I go 3 times a week. I stay for an hour and leave. I don’t take her out on Saturdays for dinner anymore. She bitches and complains and hurls insults at me all night. So I stopped going over on Saturdays. Learn to let go of her. Don’t let her manipulate her anymore. Call her bluff. Live your life. We only have one life to live. This is no dress rehearsal. Best of luck to you.

Today I started getting calls early. First a nurse pushing for my mother to see her PCP. I said short of dragging her out the door what am I supposed to do. She cancels her appointments last minute. Then came the calls from a social worker. They are trying to help, but I know my mother. Social worker talked to her in the morning. Said she agreed to having overnight help and that I should hire somebody. I did not agree saying you need to see her in the afternoon. I saw my mother early afternoon and brought up the visit. I said so you agreed to overnight help. She said I don’t want anyone in my house at night. I am so tired of doing this knowing how my mother will react. If they invoke the proxy does it make me responsible ? Should I hire help she will kick them out. I had a couple of days not thinking about all of this and now here we go again. The headaches have returned .

I stayed two days and spoke at length with the VNA social worker who has been a godsend. She is working so hard to help us out. She drive out of her way to the APS offices to speak with them. She got nowhere. I have tried to reason with my mother to no avail. She will not let any help in the home. I told her you are making bad decisions and you are going to fall again. She doesn’t care. I told her today that I cannot live my life worrying about if and when she will fall again. I said mom , when you fall again you will have to figure it out. I have done my best to give you sound advice which you choose not to accept. I spoke with her attorney about what the ER doctor said and she said I cannot be held responsible for her decisions. The ER doctor was a jerk and I do intend to write the hospital administration about his behavior. I think his behavior was out of line. Let him go stay over there. Would he say that about his parent. As I have said in previous posts I have a young lady that helps with my mom . Both she and I have asked my mom about having overnight help . We both get the same response. I don’t want to talk about that right now. Standard response. The VNA nurse told my mother that she is going to set up an appointment for my mother with her doctor. My mother will cancel. She is aware enough to know that the proxy will come up and her living arrangement will change. I should write a book. Thank you all for your comments. It means a lot.

Jim, can you update us? Are you still staying with your mother?

That's what I was wondering...IS your mother mentally competent (legally?). I believe she is?

The medical professionals like to (wrongly) assign duties to the family caregivers.

Why didn't you just tell the doctor that you don't live with your mother, can't stay with her, and if he discharged her it would be unsafe discharge?

That doctor has no authority to tell you that you have to stay with someone that he is allowing to go home because she can make her own decisions.

I would file a complaint with the administration of the hospital. That is such bunco that you are being ordered by a doctor. No, they can not do that. You can go home and call APS to report a vulnerable senior living alone.

She only wins if you buy into the lie the doctor tried to feed you. Talk about a god complex. I have actually told a doctor that I will not be able to do that, however they are welcome to give up their lives to do it. Amazing how fast they ordered rehab.

Go home and let her live the consequences of bad choices.

So here is how my day went today. My mother fell again. I found her on the floor in the den with a huge shiner. I called 911 and they took her to the hospital. I set the wheels in motion for long term care. We tried to get her held overnight so we could transfer her in the morning. Then some smartass doctor discharged her because he said she was able to make decisions. He decides this while she is screaming to the heavens why is this happening to me, calling to my father, and screaming I have to go home. His final statement was I have to stay with her to make sure she is safe. So there you have it. My mother gets what she always wanted. Me stuck in her home. VNA social worker talked to this asshat doctor and I was told he had a hair across his fanny all day. My mother has never taken any responsibility for her actions. She is very happy with herself for removing me from my home.

To Jim, in reply to your comment on September 6. I fully understand about being so fed up with bureaucracy that you don’t want to bother, and you are certainly a friend of mine about that. However the issue is that the people who are messing about with you are only low-level employees, quite possible with minimal qualifications or experience. Unfortunately many workers at this level get carried away with their new-found powers and are unreasonable, dictatorial, stupid and a real pain to deal with. That is the purpose of the Ombudsman – to sit above them and put them up short if they are abusing their powers. Don’t give up on the system entirely if you get more hassles, go upstairs in the power levels, to their bosses and then to the Ombudsman if you need to.

Your story is frightening :( I see shades of it beginning in my life with my mother and I am ready to just run away and leave town. Please come here to vent and keep us updated. This site has helped me keep my sanity and also not just dump on all of my friends all the time.

You have every right to tell that APS rat to stick it, you will not be checking on her and they will be back to deal with her.

I would send the resignation letter. A guardian trumps POA, you have a tough situation, this attorney is your moms, her 1st responsibility is to your mom and if that means throwing you under the bus, she will.

I would make reports to APS on a regular basis that there is a vulnerable senior living alone with no help, do this anonymously, have friends report, this is a situation where the squeaky wheel gets the attention.

All the responsibility with no authority does not work. Resigning will get her on the radar of guardianship sooner, as she now doesn't have a representative for day to day assistance. Sucks but that's how our bureaucrazy works.

I am sorry that you are having to go through this. It is such a balancing act to protect people's rights and ensure that they are not endangering themselves. My dad said he would rather die in a Walmart parking lot than live in a facility, looks like he will get his wish.

" They said to me you have to go check on her daily and be sure she is eating and such. I told her that I had asked to have a guardian appointed. Silence. I asked where were you all last night when she went on a tirade. She said it didn't matter and it was her choice. I said yes it might be her choice .but you just put it all back in my hands."

They always want to dump the responsibility on the family (I'm referring to post-hospitalization or rehab), but your post above is even worse, in my opinion. I am outraged on your behalf! How DARE they?

They canNOT determine what YOU do. Please do as Margaret suggests. They are WRONG!

Jim, I have a couple more suggestions, besides seeing a lawyer about your own rights. The first is to make an appointment to see the Ombudsman, whose job it is to look at unfair decisions made by Government agencies. APS should not be the final arbiters on this. The second is to arrange a month’s holiday somewhere else and not let anyone know where you are (this includes getting a second phone with a different number). Then let the chips fall where they may.

So here is an update. Protective services visited my mother today and because she is making decisions I have no say. She is allowed to fire the aides and it all falls back on me again. They are going to leave her in place. They said to me you have to go check on her daily and be sure she is eating and such. I told her that I had asked to have a guardian appointed. Silence. I asked where were you all last night when she went on a tirade. She said it didn't matter and it was her choice. I said yes it might be her choice .but you just put it all back in my hands. I don't even know what to say right now. I am livid.

Let us know what happens with APS. Try to relax and let others take over. I don't understand why she has been assessed as being of sound mind and can make her own decisions. She obviously is not and cannot.

Please keep us updated, Jim. We care!

Jim, to resign as POA you just need to send her and her attorney a certified letter of resignation. Stating a date when it will become effective. No explanation needed, just a simple statement that you are no longer able to fulfill the responsibility and tender your resignation effective September 5th, 2019.

Sometimes we have to step away to ensure that our loved ones receive the care they need. It is okay to say no more insanity, I am done.

Last night things came to a head. I received a call from one of the aides caring for my mother. She said my mother wanted her out of the house and threatened to call the police. I went over and gave my mother a talking to with little effect. She wanted them out. I told her at that point I had no choice but to file a report with Adult Protective Services. I did so upon returning home. They transferred the case to a local group where we live and they will visit her today. I doubt they will leave her in the home. Last night it was the same argument I have had with my mother for the last five days. She agreed to home care 24/7 as a condition of discharge. Once again she said we never told her which is not true. She didn’t want them there and that’s it. She always gets her way no matter the cost. I told her that from this point forward she would be dealing with the state. I am now awaiting a call from APS. I have never been so mentally drained.

Somehow you need to make it clear what your boundaries are and then deal consequences when mom violates them.  Not easy for decent, kindly people, but necessary in fairness to you and your family.  You are being abused, probably for a long time, and mom has no more right to do that than she would if you were a little kid.  Nobody is anybody else's lawful prey.   Have you started to look at the possibilities of what the social worker advises? What APS can do and not do for this situation?  Play hard ball here.  You are not moving into her home to caregive - she is not moving into your home.  Absolutely no negotiation and you must make that clear to her. Now if she refuses caregivers at her home and will not budge then you are going to follow social worker's advice, report her to APS as a vulnerable senior with the aim of getting her under state supervision. It probably seems like "I can't force her into a nursing home" but there may be ways of getting the state to take over - indirect ways like letting her try to live alone and then siccing APS on her as a danger to herself.  Calling the health department. Etc. etc. You will probably have to be tough and determined here, but after all it needs to be done, doesn't it?  For her sake, as well as yours.   She needs a realistic look into her future. But you need to be clear in your mind, united with spouse and family, that you will not move into her house, nor she into yours, so she can move into facility, hire home caregivers or you will sicc the nanny state on her. Graphic details of what that might mean for her might be good.

Thank you all. Today is day three of my mom being home with 24/7 care. I had to go over this morning to meet with a VNA nurse. Mom was okay and I thought maybe she is settling down. How wrong I was. Because of the holiday weekend the in home care provider had some staff working long shifts and others short shifts. I told my mother that there would be a shift change at ten this evening. She started to get amped up and I tried to calm her down. Everything was okay for about five hours and then my phone started ringing every five minutes. My mother was anxiety ridden because of the shift change. My wife just went to talk to her and she won’t listen. She says she won’t let them in the house. I have already placed a call to the social worker at the rehab facility , but being a holiday weekend I don’t expect a call back until Tuesday. I can’t live like this. She calls me at all hours wanting me to come over. My wife just returned from seeing my mother and said she is out of control. I suppose I could file a report with protective services. I am not sure how quickly they respond. Because my mother is still allowed to make decisions I don’t have much say in that I cannot force her to a nursing home. I don’t know if the care providers can walk away if she refuses entry to her house. What a fiasco. It is affecting my health. I just need to get through the next day and tonight.

Hi,

My Mom has not had all those issues, but she is creating a huge toll on my sister's health as my sister stays with her and has for a long time. Mom does say some mean things. I don't take them too seriously as I can come home to my own home, husband, and daughter. But for Mom to stay in her home for a while now, my sister has lived with her. My sister should not have to put up with Mom's not nice comments. But she does! Now my sister is having her own health issues that does truly sadden me as I am the older sister. But I know what I can and cannot do. Oddly enough, I have stayed with Mom as she also resists hired help in, and Mom actually could cooperate and help me to get her upright. I figured that all along. My special needs daughter went through a "naughty helpless " phase too. Now that she has a couple of classes again at the junior college, my daugter is fine. She even got up early to do a quiz online today on a Saturday as she wants to stay in the class and she hadn't done it as we were at Mom's yesterday as well as two days before.

I love my Mom and so does her grand-daughter, but we all need to do the best we can. My Mom needs to understand that it is not all about her now, but also about getting my sister, her daughter who is her caregiver, well. I have explained to Mom that I cannot ever do what my sister does as I really do have other commitment to my own family. I love all of them and I must keep myself well by getting decent sleep so I can help the best way I can. I cannot go live at Mom's house and Mom wouldn't live living in my house either.

My sister takes all the verbal abuse Mom gives her and that just isn't right! It has taken a toll on my sister's health now and my sister really need to be able to sleep decently to get well. I have tried to explain that to Mom and if I ever do go stay over night to let my sister sleep decently, I have told Mom that she must stay in her bed four hours straight as I wouldn't be available. I know when I did stay over there before I was up the entire night listening for Mom to request something. I cannot do that again I must say. It will compromise my own mental health to not get sleep. I just know this and say what I believe is true for me.

Here we haven't had the POA issues, but it will be become difficult when that time comes. Mom seems to say we both share it equally but I think my sister actually is it. If it were 50/50, I would lay down the law to my Mom. I love her but she must cooperate too. She is with it enough to do that. I saw that when I was with her multiple hours this past week. I expect her to do her best as I do that with my daughter and yes, I am a hard nose, but guess what, everyone "behaves". I hate being the policeman but I guess that is my roll in life.

I am so glad it is now and not two weeks ago. Honestly, things are better with Mom although I worry about outcome for my sister. So any prayers are gratefully appreciated. I give thanks to God that I feel much better myself and standing my ground on no "butt lifts" has been a good thing and not hindered my relationship with Mom as she knows why I cannot do that now.

Thanks for sharing and listening to all this! Enjoy the holiday long weekend.

I went through this with my mom, after she had back surgery last year. She was in a nursing home, complained, bitched at me to take her home... I caved took her home, had home healthcare, she kept pushes the appointments further and further till the company finally dropped her. She didn't want anyone in the house. When she finally wanted home healthcare, she was too weak to do the physical therapy . So now, she's back in the nursing home, this time, for good. As with your mom, if she keeps going on like this, she will end up in a nursing home, permanently. No if's, ands, buts about it. She NEEDS 24/7 care, weather that's at home or at a facility. I agree to get removed of being her POA. Have the state take over, I can understand if she has dementia or other mental idleness's, but if she is in her sound mind and the doctor has not declared her incompetent, then there's not much you can do for her at this point. You can't force anyone to get better, not even your own parents. Stay out of it. Get your name off the POA, ASAP ! And move on with your life. I wish you the best of luck .

your mother needs 24/7 care so unless you’re willing to stay home & supervise or have 2 separate live in caregivers ...she should be in SNF. She will probably fall again. & the cycle of surgery. Rehab...will continue.