What is my responsibility to parent?

Jobaby2,

I posted very early on in this thread on January 2nd.

I am calling you out for your response to my post. Please don’t use the Bible to insult me because as you can see I don’t take kindly to someone who only quotes a portion of the Bible and takes it out of context.

I am willing to bet that no one else shares your opinion.

Do you know why? BECAUSE THIS IS A CAREGIVER SUPPORT GROUP!!!

So, knock it off! I am in no mood to deal with ignorance today.

Show some respect to the OP and those who are showing support to her.

If you are so righteous, then YOU can HELP by OFFERING to CARE for the ABUSIVE PARENTS of people who are reaching out for help!!!

Oh, and please read the scripture that I suggested to you about parents NOT provoking children.

God doesn’t require children to be doormats for their abusive parents.

You have gotten some great advice and suggestions here. I just want to add one other little option. I'm not sure where you live but in NJ if you don't want to take on the responsibility for a parent who is not capable of taking care of themselves and their "business" either you (or even a hospital if she happened to be in one and it goes a lot faster for the hospital) can petition to court to have a guardian appointed to care for a loved one. We took a person like that into our ltc facility from the hospital. Neither of her sons were interested in even speaking to her (or very much about her to us) and the hospital determined that she could no longer live alone so their legal team petitioned the court. Five days later she had a court appointed guardian who signed her into the facility and made financial and medical decisions for her. I think the secret is that they have to be judged incompetent but you can certainly check that out with an eldercare attorney when you speak to them. BTW, make sure that is a certified eldercare attorney. You can search for one at naela.org, the national academy of elder care lawyers.
Good luck and special congrats on your sobriety!!!

Not sure what "...handling her business matters." really means. If you are referring to using her funds to pay her bills, it doesn't have to be very complicated, but it SHOULD only be done with POAs AND rep payee for SS funds. Using bill payer system, even automating payments, is useful (I prefer not to use the autopay, as they can be forgotten and you continue paying even though you don't want the service anymore or the bill is paid in full! I ran into this with mom's Sunday paper - something made me think of it and I had to call to cancel the delivery. They did refund the balance not used.) These take a little time to set up, but once done, it doesn't take much time to "manage" it. But, that doesn't mean you have to do it. If there's no online account, she can write checks to pay her own bills.

As others suggested, a consult with EC atty, drafting all questions and concerns ahead of time, might be the first step. Many do offer an initial brief consultation for free. Find several who offer this and take notes. If no one has POA, no one can really "handle" her business anyway. The EC atty fees should be covered by your mother's assets/income, not yours.

If she's living with you, her "business" should be very limited, unless she has a lot of debt. The EC atty may have suggestions for how to handle the "assets", sell them if possible, and set up the rest in a trust, to protect what's left for her and to cover her expenses. They might also be able to point you to fiduciaries who can manage your mother's income and assets. They may have the best suggestions for getting her out of your place and into a senior apartment (AL is an option, but only if she can afford it.)

"This was supposed to me my time. I'd made room in my life for that. I'd downsize; I'd simplified; I'd KonMari'd; I'd cancelled cable; and, I never installed a landline. I'd planned on traveling overseas; going on fly-fishing road trips, camping. I planned on many trips to visit my new grandchild. I planned on eating cereal for dinner when I felt like it."

This still IS your "me time", it's just run into a speed bump. KEEP your plans intact and one step at a time, implement them.

Downsize usually means moving to a smaller place - if this is your house and you can find a smaller one or apartment, prep it for sale and sell it. She will have no choice but to move somewhere.

In the meantime, search for senior apartments, see EC attys, set things in motion and hopefully soon it will be safer to find a place for you, a place for her and time to implement the rest of your plans! If there are any day programs for elders in your area, drop her off several days/week, to be with others her own age.

There ARE no rules that say WE have to provide the care for our parents. NONE. If she's capable of doing the things she asks you for, refuse to do them. Wake her up? How about just putting an obnoxious alarm in her room??? Playing helpless? If you refuse to do her bidding, get me this, bring me that, do this for me, she will either do it or do without. Providing a safe place for her, getting her to appts should be more than enough to care for her. The rest is babying, and shouldn't be pandered to.

Manage her finances long enough to get her into an independent living apartment; a subsidized one if she doesn’t have enough assets.
It’s best to deal with the weird ‘precious metal’ investment while she’s alive so you can easily spend down her assets should she need care in the future and have to go in Medicaid.

Take charge. It’s your life.

Imho, see an elder law attorney.

Get with an elder attorney and find out what you can do to get her either into an assisted living place or NH.  She can pay with whatever assets she has and if none, they can help get Medicaid set up.  Also........do either you or your sister have POA?  if not.......I guess that is something to go over with the elder attorney to figure out how or who is going to handle things.  YOU should not be responsible for anything of hers IF you don't want to be.  congrats on getting yourself back to what you wanted and go live out your traveling dreams and whatever YOU want to do.  There is nothing in any book that says you "have" to handle your parents affairs.  IF your mother is not totally handicapped that she can't get out of bed, tell her to set her alarm and get up or just let her stay in bed till she decides to get up.  Without knowing how much she needs help with I don't know how much to offer as help.  But it sounds like you finally got things situated the way you wanted and there is nothing wrong with being that way.  I wish you luck but get with an elder attorney (at your mothers expense since you are going over stuff concerning her) and get things straightened out soon........and I wish you good trips.

Well, if your dad invested a bunch of money into precious metals back when they had little value, and gold is now at nearly $2,000 per ounce, the investment may not have been a bad one at all. Especially considering the stock market crashes over the decades and how people have lost their entire 401K's and life savings, etc.

That said, you can agree to sell off those precious metals for your mother. I'd also read the fine print very carefully to be absolutely CERTAIN they have to be liquidated with the company they were originally purchased with, etc. Then she will have funds to finance her stay in either Independent or Assisted Living from here on out. If you have to become her financial POA in order to accomplish this, then do it. That's my suggestion. As her financial POA, you can make all of her financial decisions for her. If the proceeds are minimal, look into Medicaid to finance her care moving forward.

I decided long, long ago that no elders would EVER be living with me in my home, nor would I be living in their home. So, as financial & medical POA for both of my parents (I'm an only child), I was able to place them in Assisted Living back in 2014 and manage their lives FOR them from 4 miles away. This is caring for my loved ones, which I feel is my responsibility, but on MY terms. While it's not so easy, it's easIER than it would be if they were living with me in my house. Dad did pass in 2015 but my mother is still alive at 94 & I'm managing things for her at the Memory Care.

Wishing you the best of luck finding alternate living arrangements for your mother and taking care of YOU in the process. Congrats on your sobriety. Make sure you keep THAT as your #1 priority and all will be well.

You could hire a Daily Money Manager to help with your financial and personal affairs so you are not resonsible.

Responsibility to a parent? There is nothing written down that says such and such is your responsibility. Caring for a parent or anyone should be done with love and understanding what will be needed for them. Realizing what you will be giving up. Taking a parent into your home is just the beginning of what is going to be needed over the following years. It will only get harder to cope even with love. It is not fair to the parent or yourself to be angry/trapped right from the beginning. Hind sight is always easier, such as...should not have agreed to taking her in. Finding a placement for her now sounds like it would be best for both. There are services that will help in that search.

I knew there was a time I needed to seek a MC home for my Mom. I was no longer able to handle her in her condo, keep her safe and still have my life with my husband. Now I am caregiver for my husband of 60 years of deep love, in sickness and in health, doing the very best I can with his Alzheimers and all the training I had with Mom's Alzheimers. I have told our children I never want to live with them and would be fine in a care home. I want them to have their own lives.

The short answer is that you are responsible for no one but yourself. You may feel a moral obligation to care for your mother or others but that is something that you take on willingly. It cannot be forced on you by your mother or by anyone else.

It sounds like you are in a situation that is untenable going forward. I applaud you for getting sober and your sobriety is the most important consideration.

You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here. The biggest problem is that that you probably will not be able to get your mother out of the house unless she is taken out with an ambulance, or you may have to evict her. If she is any in any kind of physical distress, call 911 and have them transfer her to a hospital for evaluation, then refuse to take her back.

If that is not the case contact 211 or adult family services and ask them for help in getting her out of your house. She will have to go to a Medicaid supported facility of some sort and then you can visit or do whatever works.

I think most of us sympathize with what you are going through. Just take it day by day, do the best you can, know that isn’t forever. Please come back and let us know what happens. God bless.

I wish everyone would read some stories like this before they take any action toward "caring" for a parent, especially allowing them to move in. This always entails much more than is usually expected and it always gets worse with time.

Parents are responsible for their own retirement and old age. I just turned 70. I do share some of the care for my 96 year old mother with my sisters, but none of us will ever let her move into our homes. When Mom can no longer make it work at her own home, she will need to go into residential care.

My own plans include living at home as long as I can care for it and myself (with hired assistance, perhaps). When it gets to be more than I want to deal with I will either move into an apartment/condo with weekly cleaning service or I will move into a retirement home. All I want my sons and grandson to do for me is to visit with me once in a while, and share their personal triumphs with me.

If I make a mess of my finances (in good shape at this point), I will simply make do with a Medicaid bed if that is all my future finances allow. I try to make solid decisions and I am reasonably frugal so my spreadsheets show that I would be good until well into my 90's. If not, it is my fault, not that of my sons or grandson. I feel that ALL responsible adults owe it to their children to make plans for themselves so that their children can enjoy those final years, not find them a trial and a torture.

I am glad to see that you have provided for your own life. Good for you! Stick to your own plans and let your mother make her own plans for her life. She is responsible for herself, just as you are responsible for your life. Try to be kind, but be very firm. Her presence in your home is not a blessing in your life. Tell her to move on.

As a Christian, I believe we have the responsibility to see that our parents are taken care of. That does not mean they must live with you, and it certainly doesn't mean one has to put up with abuse, if that is an issue. It's time to find some place else for you mother to live.

I think that most of us who post here are already doing all of the things that you resent having to do.

Some of us are already doing all of our loved one's paperwork, bills, and other business.

Some are changing adult diapers, as well as feeding and dressing their loved ones.

It just comes with the territory. You might have to end up doing this, even if you resent it (like me).

As other members said you are not cut out to be a caregiver so it's time to find a way to move your Mom out.

That said, did you get sober while your Mom was living with you (you wrote that your Mom moved in 2 years ago). In any case, I became sober 35 years ago and I'm one of the lucky ones because I don't desire alcoholic for reasons I have no idea. It's just the way it is.

Go to your meetings, talk to an elder care attorney and slowly get your Mom out. I wonder why your sister kicked her out and if you and your sister are talking.

Best to you and good luck on your sobriety,
Jenna

I applaud you for your honesty and self awareness. And congrats on your sobriety. I’m sorry you are under this unwanted stress. My mother was placed in assisted living (by me) and I manage her finances. Believe me I want a guardian to take over most days. Just keeping up with her finances (they were a mess) and worrying about possibly applying for Medicaid in the future and finding her a Medicaid bed is very stressful. My mother has dementia and cannot manage any decisions and I’m an only child. She argues and fights with me and accuses me of stealing - ugh. So I get it! I would never have accepted being POA. I didn’t know what I was getting into. You can refuse being POA.

Your mom needs a better plan other than languishing in your extra bedroom. That’s a conversation you need to have ASAP even though I’m sure you would like to avoid it! This situation won’t likely resolve on its own and your sobriety and mental well-being are at stake.

You sound intelligent and resourceful and strong! Gather your support system and do some research on senior resources and housing in your area. It will be hard work in the short run to insure your peace of mind and sanity in the long run.

Your first responsibility is to yourself. A decision for mom to live with you is one that would need to be made together. Even if it wasn't made that way, going forward it can be. Having parent(s) live with you can be a wonderful solution for some families, but I agree--looking into other housing for mom may be best here. While you are doing this (and probably before bringing it up to mom) get support through whatever you have available to you. And by support, I mean people who will help you navigate your first responsibility to yourself (which includes your sobriety--congratulations, by the way!!!). Is there any chance your family of origin had a parent who was an addict of some form? Detaching with love (an Al-Anon concept) comes to mind here. Best of luck!!!

No where is there a law stating that you must personally take care of your parent. Seems like your mom wore out your sister and she is now going to try doing that with you. Of course, she doesn't see it that way but that is probably how you feel. I I usually counsel that an adult child may feel an obligation to his/her parent(s) and that should be that the parent is maintaining his/her health and that he/she is safe. The adult child does not have to do the caretaking or put the parent up in their home. This caretaking responsibility only comes into play if the parent is not mentally competent to make arrangements for his/her own care.

That being said, you need to talk with your sibling(s) about your mom and her care. Discuss who will be mom's advocate for financial and medical - then get her to a lawyer to get those powers of attorney drawn up. Make sure mom has a will and have somebody agree to be executor of her estate when she passes. If family members do not want these responsibilities, check with her doctor and banker about assuming these responsibilities. Have mom evaluated by a doctor for mental competency. From what you describe, your mother may also need to be evaluated for mental health issues.

After these evaluations, you need a family meeting to discuss mom's living situation. Since you do not want her living with you and she doesn't want to live with your sibling, it might be wiser for mom to move to a senior community or assisted living community that can phase to more care as she needs it.

Might I also suggest that you get a few sessions with a counsellor and attend a group recovery program (AA or Celebrate Recovery) . I congratulate you on your sobriety, but I know that these types of situations are very stressful on everybody. You could probably use some help in dealing with your mom/s behavior.

Your responsibility to your mother is to do what's best for her within *her* means and within *your* limits. If you want your sobriety to last, start her applications for aide i.e. Medicare benefits, Medicaid, etc., find senior housing where she can age in place, and get her moved. She needs to be around people her own age as do you.

If you have just gotten sober, the last thing you need is to take on the care of another person.  All of your efforts need to be on yourself and your own issues, whatever they may be. 

This wasn't a friend asking to crash on your couch for a week.  This is an elderly parent who needs companionship, assistance and care.  Did you ask your sister what the issues were and why your mom was moving out?  That might have given you a clue as to why you should have said no.  That is water under the bridge now.    You and your sister are going to have to work together with your mom and come up with a plan for her to move into assisted living or something comparable.  Just tell your mom that you have some extended traveling to do and you will not be home and you don't think it's safe to leave her there alone.  You are going to have to par-lay your trips until you get mom settled somewhere and even once you do get her settled, you and your sister are going to have to manage her finances and care. 

I don't know of anyone who doesn't have some responsibility to someone or something.  A spouse, a job, a child, a parent, a girlfriend, a dog, etc...  the key is to make good choices in relation to those things.  She is your mom.  You don't want her living with you, but that doesn't mean you can't help her get settled elsewhere.

While your mother is still mentally capable of making decisions make sure all of her paperwork is in order. You, your sister and your mother need to have a talk to discuss who will take on what responsibilities. It sounds like your mother wants to hand things over to someone else to handle. Will your sister take on the financial and medical decisions? Most things can be set to be on "autopay." Whoever is handling the financial and medical decisions should have all of your mother's bills and statements going to their address. She needs a will, powers of attorney for financial and medical decisions, a living will that details her medical wishes, and some banks and financial institutions have their own POA forms. Social Security also needs to have on record who can speak to them on her behalf. Maybe one of the options you all need to discuss is your mother living in an assisted living facility where her physical needs can be cared for. The way I see it, you and your sister are responsible for making sure that she is being cared for, but it doesn't have to be you caring for her. If your sister won't take over the POA responsibilities, you may have to bite the bullet and take that on. Try to get things on autopay as much as you can to make things easier for yourself. You can do most things online now, from any place where you can get wifi, and can do most things from mobile phone apps. Remember that as people age, they tend to need more care, and you need to plan for a time when she may not be able to care for herself.

You just need to be up front with your mom and tell her exactly how you feel and exactly what she can expect from you as far as help goes and Exactly what her options are.

Maybe sge can use her Cash from the precious metal investment and pay for a Caregiver ?

I hear what you are saying about thinking your like will be yours once the kids move out and you can finally take a breath of fresh air all your own...then you have to care for a parent. It's unfortunate that you took in your mother because I think you are stuck until she needs round-the-clock care that you won't be able to give her.

At this point, you need to have a serious conversation with your mother about boundaries and what you will and will not do from here on...

FYI, have you actually checked the value of the precious metals your dad invested in? Many metals have appreciated significantly and they might be worth more than he paid, but there could be serious tax consequences to selling them. Depends on if they are held in an IRA or in a taxable account. A good financial planner will be able to help. You can find one by starting with the AARP website for advice and links. Some advisors will take you to the cleaners, and some put the client’s interest first. Those are called “fiduciaries” and you want an advisor who is a fiduciary. A good financial planner will evaluate you mom’s assets and needs, make recommendations, and even carry out the needed transactions for her.

Remember that because of the novel coronavirus, you wouldn’t have been able to travel and get out anyway. Look at this as an air lock between your past and future life. Use the time to plan. If your mom has assets, find her an assisted living facility. A good one will provide help with meals, cleaning, and socialization - it sounds like your mom could be battling depression, and being around others and making friends might help.

I don’t know what your living situation is, but a last resort might be to move to a smaller place, or tell your mom you are going to do that, so she needs to find a different place to stay.

Welcome to the real world. It sounds like your mom is aging, with dementia maybe, withdrawing within herself and becoming less and less self sufficient.

When I got sober I expected everything to be better. It's better now because I think and see things differently ... which takes time. One of the biggest challenges for me is to be compassionate with myself, then I am able to be kind, patient and compassionate with others. I consider my caregiving as a chance to learn about myself as I interact with others, especially my loved one, who's behavior sometimes irritates me. (Also it's a chance to be of service to another, making living amends.) It's where I can move out of being a victim and into making better choices. When I'm disturbed, it's about me, not the other person. I cannot change the other person. When I take responsibility for my reactions and determine where I need to change (usually it's some form of fear), ...things change.
This doesn't mean I shouldn't set some boundaries with the other, but I can only change me. This is the time to consult with others to see the choices I may have regarding help ... and regarding my attitude. Addiction is a thinking problem, with symptoms of craving. When I work on myself starting with my feelings ...and the thoughts and beliefs fueling those feelings, I have choices. I can "control" myself; never the other. Although the other person may change because I'm different, but no guarantee with that.
Wishing you all the best, and encouraging you to work on developing your sobriety (a never-ending work) through real life events like the one God has presented to you. It's great that you reached out to us on this forum. Please know you are not alone, many of us are dealing with difficult challenges. Keep going, keep reaching out to others - here and in recovery - and keep the faith. My faith is God and Her/His agents, other humans, will help me grow into love. Then everything I see and do is beautiful because I see it that way.

Nothing

Nada

Goose Egg

Zip

Zilch

If your mother’s assets are not sufficient to pay for AL (she doesn’t sound like she meets the criteria for SN) and your sister doesn’t want to care for her you have a problem. Could she live alone in a senior apt with some assistance? You and your sister have to decide how this will work. You could take turns caring for her. Each take a few weeks ( or months) and then switch. I don’t see what other alternatives are available for you.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess as to why your mom's living situation with your sister didn't work out. Your mom probably pulled a lot more on your sister. I'm sure she caught it ten times worse than you do because she's a daughter, and daughters catch it far worse from mom then any of our brothers do. Get together with your sister and find a senior living community for your mother, or better still an assisted living that also has a nursing home area for if she should need skilled care. Don't have her living with you because you don't want her there or the responsibility of her. I do not say this as an insult to you at all. You have a right to live your own life at your age. You state that you don't have to manage her business and financial affairs and that is good. Please have a meeting with your sister and talk it over with her. Then let your mother know that you plan on travelling often and many other things that you've planned to do and will not be able to look after her in day-to-day life.

Congrats on your sobriety! You deserve to live life exactly as you planned.

It sounds like you truly didn’t realize how much of a responsibility it would be to care for your mother in your home.

I know that I didn’t have a clue as to how hard it would be to care for my mother in my home.

I assume it was just as difficult for your sister. It is hard for any adult child to meet the needs of their parents.

I bet that your mom blamed everything on your sister and doesn’t realize how disruptive it is for her children to take care of her.

I believe that you are reluctantly doing your best but anyone that is miserable isn’t being fair to themselves or the person they are caring for.

I wouldn’t want someone that I felt was miserable caring for me.

Parents have a way of knowing which buttons to push. We have to learn healthy reactions to their behavior. Coping skills are essential to retaining our sanity.

Some parents feel entitled while others despise being a burden on others.

My experience as a caregiver has taught me that I never wish to be a burden on my children or my husband.

I found it extremely helpful to have the objective help of a professional therapist as well as hearing from people on this forum who have walked in similar shoes.

I hope that you too will find the insight that you are seeking to help you remedy this challenging and trying time in your life.

Please look into finding suitable and appropriate help for your mother.

Start by speaking to a social worker to help plan for alternative living arrangements for your mom.

Just knowing your options will help you to feel better.

Once everything is settled and mom is out of your home, the weight of the world will be off of your shoulders.

I found that I could breathe again when the heavy load of ‘hands on’ caregiving ended in my home.

Slowly but surely you will feel in control of your life again.

Wishing you peace and joy in this new year.

"About 2 years ago; my elderly mother informed me that she needed to move in with me because things were not working out living with my sister."

That's all I needed to read to predict the rest of what was coming. You have the kind of mother that assumed her adult children would be the elder care plan, ALL of it. You have my sympathy, because my mother did the same.

I'm curious, what business is she conducting at age 89? Does she have decent financial resources? Leslie what you need is a plan to get her out of your home. Your profile said she is incontinent. Does that mean she can't do her own personal hygiene? I'm just wondering if she would qualify for ALF, or need more?

Either way, you have every right to live your life! Your mom lived hers. In a senior care home she will be around her peers, and get socialization.

Let us know what you are thinking, because it doesn't have to be this way, there are other options.

It does not sound like mom NEEDS your assistance but she wants it.
I suggest that you and mom look for Assisted Living facility.
Contact an Elder Care Attorney and set up plans that the attorney can handle financial matters for mom. There are people that do this professionally!
Might even want to ask about cashing in all the "precious metals" and place the funds in a Trust that mom can have easier access when she needs it..
Then begin your life the way YOU want to live it, the way you planned on doing it.
If mom balks at Assisted Living (and as long as she is safe by herself) plan a nice L O N G trip and then just go. She will have to figure out how to manage while you are gone.