What are the details, including financial, if family declines or drops POA, and a state appointed guardian is appointed?
I assume that the guardian is going to bill for their time. I assume that comes from the estate/LO’s funds?
How often does fraud occur? I have seen the movie "I Care a Lot" (lead actress Rosamund Pike ). That movie was kind of scary! How often does fraud occur?
The reason I ask is that rather than dropping POA, maybe financially it’s better to save one’s time/life a bit by hiring Geriatric Care Manager , and retain POA behind the scenes?
My SFIL was living with my MIL. He had Parkinsons and she had short-term memory impairment (they were both falling regularly). SFIL refused to appoint a PoA to manage his affairs. He thought we (our family and my BIL's family, both of us local) were going to be his hands-on caregivers as he declined with his Parkinsons (FYI he was 6'4"). We finally got social services involved. He had Lewy Body Dementia (hallucinations, delusions) so was threatening to kill people. Also, he not only had no money but was tens of thousands of dollars in the hole, plus upside down on his second mortgage.
Finally, when he had fallen yet again he was taken by ambulance to the ER and there social services sent him directly to a county Medicaid MC facility. Lutheran Social Services provided the guardian. They communicated with me, as family representative, very often asking what his preferences were so they could make him comfortable, get him food he preferred, etc. They even agreed to move him to a different facility so that we didn't have to drive his wife 1-1/2 hours to visit him every week. The guardian was very accommodating and whenever I emailed them or spoke on the phone with them there was always a supervisor included, so I never spoke to the guardian just the 2 of us. There was always oversight and accountability. They were very accessible and responsive. They did shut down all his accounts immediately (his banking, access to his medical records, etc).
Their house went into foreclosure and my MIL eventually went to AL. When he passed away the guardian provided a complete financial accounting of where his SS money was spent. They paid to have him cremated and asked us where we wanted his cremains to go. They gave it to us.
In my home state the court-appointed guardians have accountability for what they do on the behalf of their charges. Not sure if this is true across all the states. To be honest, I was shocked at how well the social workers advocated for my SFIL while working closely and compassionately with our family.
One poster here (I think it's Geaton) has had a good experience. I believe she's in Minnesota.
What are you trying to accomplish? Not to have to deal with dad at all? Or dealing with him only in small doses?
Think about how you'd like to restructure your relationship with him, and I'm sure we can all come up with a plan.
You have a brother, yes? How does he feel about this?
I have made a number of improvements already based largely on feedback from the forum. But I can improve things further and I like your idea to have a set plan in mind.
I would like to have in-person visits reduced to 1-2 times a week, for 2-3 hours max. Sometimes I'll have to start traveling for work more, and so may occasionally be out of town for 7-10 days. So I'm glad to make visits, but I would like them to be more social visits. Not fully "business meetings", which is what they tend to be still now. (my dad has learned that I wont tolerate endless demands on me, but discussions tend to still be about what changes he may want to the room, what supplies and things he wants , about how his meal was, about how is bowel movements are, about medical issues and upcoming appts etc).
I am fine with ordering simple supplies and things off Amazon and having those sent right in to AL or bringing them in with me. BUt I dont want / wont tolerate having to have to come in for "emergency visits" for things.
What I do still want to reduce is the number of things I have to arrange and take care of during weekday hours, as that interferes with my work. I dont mind doing these things, but because they usually have to be during weekday hours, thats not good. Eg researching which doctors or providers to go see, scheduling, rescheduling doctor appts, arranging transportation for appointments if I cant be the one to drive, getting calls from audiologists and dentists about arranging payment etc, calls from the AL when my dad wants something ASAP or there is a disagreement. The AL covers most basic stuff. and the assistant manager will cover some troubleshooting, but they dont really go over and beyond. So I'm wondering if a Geriatric care manager can help me more with the researching into health care providers, arranging appointments, arranging transportation to appointments, communicating these to my dad and helping him have a "daily calendar" to keep him on track etc.
My brother is empathetic to my struggles. He is on the other side of the country so cannot come by in person very much. He is supportive of hiring geriatric care manager if that is needed.
What I am fine with doing, and I do once per week - paying his bills and monitoring the bank account.
Long ago, when mom's "emergencies" were running me ragged, endangering my job, my health and my marriage, I sat down and told her "I can't do this anymore".
This led me to an internal debate about what I COULD do.
What I could do, I decided, was once a week. I could visit her once a week, at home, then in her IL and then her Nursing Home (which was a 90 minute drive each way).
I spent lots of hours on the phone with doctors, nurses, social workers, psychiatrists, DONs, dentists, administrators and laundry ladies, but once a week direct contact was my limit. I should mention that my mom wasn't difficult or whiny, we were just very different people and I knew that more than that wouldn't be good for us.
Decide what you CAN do. And then figure out how to get the rest done.
The person is examined for competency, and receives his or her own attorney for his or her defense to prove his/her competency.
Medical exams are done and doctors report on whether person is competent or incompetent.
If the latter incompetency is proven, then the court appoints a Licensed Fiduciary to manage EVERYTHING for the person. At this point, StrugglinSon, you are out of it. You can ask kindly if your Dad could be placed nearby for ease of visits, but that isn't always possible. The Fiduciary takes over everything just as tho he were son and POA. He manages placement, health care, payments of bills, investment of finances, and etc. Yes, he is paid for his time. From the estate in the instance of funds and BY the state in the instance of no funds.
Now, as to fraud? Well, that is like asking how often does murder occur for a loved one?
Not often is the answer.
I would imagine there could be fraud. It would take a lot of players cooperating, judges, attorneys who work with fiduciaries all the time. Hollywood is NOT real life. That film was ridiculous; I literally had to turn it off.
I am well acquainted--friends now--with the Fiduciary who cared for my brother's ex his last years of incompetency. It is a H--- of a job. A real circle of Hades, I can tell you. For that he got, five years ago, 90.00 an hour. He couldn't even publish where he lived out of fear of families and the threats they made when care was taken from them by the state. He dealt with madness half the time. The record keeping is meticulous. I wouldn't have that job for a million buck. He just retired, and was he ever ready!
All of that said, and do ask details of me, I will say this: I don't think your Dad would be judged incompetent and know that to be incompetent under the law is a high high bar because the court in the USA is hesitant to take a citizen's rights to manage his own life from him.
I would consider trying the Geriatric Case Manager first. I would explain to Dad what is at stake here (losing control to the state) so that he will be cooperative in this.
Or, simply leaving him to his own devises and letting APS make the moves when you report him as a senior at risk.
plus, reading other poster's topics - its so depressing
so many of ours situations are un-fixable
my gut feeling now is that I just need to drop POA, my brother who does 2% of what I do would be remaing POA but he can drop too. I am beginning to think, unfortunately, that this is the only option
The Fiduciary is as much a guardian working for the state as you, Strugglin, would be for your father. Responsible for everything working with your father. He would also likely have a good relationship with you, trying to arrange placement for easy visitation. He would be responsible for all finances. Whomever is on Dad's will as executor would remain; his duties stop with death.
My brother's ex outlived him by some years, and due to alcohol had bad encephalopathy. I was very familiar with all the Fiduciary did for him until his death, and this man even tried to help the sister with Trust money left to her so she could safeguard it from a greedy family. Unfortunately, she didn't listen to him, must have watched that ridiculous movie, and she squandered 250,000, having had nothing all her life, before a year was out, taking family to Theme Parks and etc. So, it is what it is in life. You do the best you can making choices.
Never any guarantees.
My husband regrets being POA for his recently deceased very entitled Dad. He will not do it for his mother ( divorced ) if she asks . They were both very self centered and controlling , hence the divorce . We can’t even get his Mom to use a walker or put grab bars in her bathroom. She refuses to move or get a stair lift , she bear crawls up the stairs. She has had multiple falls . Hubby says “she’s on her own “.
my brother is co-POA and does about 2% of things , I do 98%. Yes resentment is real and legitimate .
However if a POA get overwhelmed and wants to continue, the POA also has the right to hire professional accountants or someone called a daily financial manager.
Dyes this help?