My dad had to surrender his drivers license due to cognitive decline. My mom still drives but is not confident behind the wheel. They were told he could not drive but didn’t agree with the decision. While driving in town I saw my parent’s car in the other lane with my dad driving. I went over to their home later and took the car keys. At this point I will not give them back to my mom. She tells me she won’t let my dad drive but I feel I can’t trust her to remember (she has some memory issues as well). Do I trust that she will not give the keys to my dad and give her the keys back? Or do I hold my ground and refuse to hand them over? Their doctor and I both explained that if my dad is in an accident that they can lose all of their assets.
Mom: meek spirit, quiet and mousy
Dad: a bit overbearing but overall nice and has a large personality
Dad waits for mom to go to the toilet and then dad takes the car keys and goes for a joy ride.
Mom doesn’t know where he went or and she can’t really think about what to do after it takes her several minutes to realize he took the car. She doesn’t want to make him mad, so she goes and prays that no one gets hurt. She doesn’t tell anyone dad took the car keys while she was on the toilet because it makes both of them look bad and the kids might start talking about AL again.
I’m sorry if this comes across as derivative. I don’t mean it to be. I think it coudl be a LOT a of responsibility placed on mom to gatekeep the car keys. Maybe she doesn’t really need that job.
We can only comment on the words written without knowing the people involved.
Again, my 2 cents which might be worth nothing. It’s all hard. I know it’s hard trying to talk to them. I know.
You absolutely do not 'try' to reason with a person with dementia.
You talk to them in a way that works for YOU.
You never ever argue with a person with dementia.
Yes, I stated 1, 2, 3. However, each person needs to respond to a parent (or anyone they are responsible for who should not be driving) in a way that works.
None of us are there with you.
Please do not blast me for trying to intervene before someone is injured or killed. And, we are all here trying to help out as best we can, even me. If you do not like what I say, then fine. Ignore me and move on.
My concern is that no one gets injured or killed when he's driving (or your mother).
As you state, my comment(s) are dramatic. The potential of a person(s) being injured or killed due to someone driving isn't dramatic to me. The results are a real possibility. Thus, my comment about having a police officer involved 'somehow.'
Clearly see the situation / need differently.
I only offer suggestions based on my experience and training with people inflicted with dementia (over the last 8-12 years).
That you suggest giving the keys back to your mother was / is a red flag to me.
I cannot imagine why you would even consider doing this?
However, I will bow out now as my comments seem to cause you more stress than being helpful. You will do what you feel is right in this situation. Gena
It's doing them a favor by removing the keys - it's not a punishment - it's helping them. They may not understand it right now, but it's more important to keep them safe, as well as others on the road. They've lived long enough to know that sometimes there have to be compromises in life. Thankfully there's lots of alternatives and it's a matter of pivoting to using ubers or cabs - and just about anything can be ordered online - even groceries.
Maybe you can just fib a little and tell them that the keys were requested back by the DMV !
This is a new issue in this website's technical / technology and I hope they fix it.
I forgot to add:
It sounds like your mother should not be driving either.
Has she been tested (MD / dementia) / DMV / ability to drive) ?
Might be a good idea to insist she gets tested also.
In how I read this, if you DECIDE to return the car keys to your mother, you are also responsible for the damage your dad may cause - be it injury to him / your mom / others or killing someone. You DO NOT want this to be on you - you keep / take away the keys. Period.
If you need someone there with you to have this 'discussion,' bring your troops - family, friend, or invite a police person to join you.
Gena / Touch
No, you DO NOT trust your mom to do what is necessary for all concerned (for their safety).
Also, notify the police dept that he may be driving so they may be on the 'lookout.' And, maybe a 'visit' from the local police to their door saying / reaffirming that he is not allowed to drive may help them see how serious this is. (If the police are willing to do this).
You do not want your dad to kill himself, your mother, anyone else.
You made the right decision. Just be sure that they cannot get another set of keys made.
You do not explain or set up a "I'm right" and "you're wrong" - this never works.
You state your case / situation:
* DI revoked / taken away due to cognitive decline.
* Unable to legally drive.
* Period / end of story.
And, no they will certainly not like how you are handling this although remember they are more 'angry' and 'frustrated' about him declining and losing independence. They are scared. Hopefully, you will be able to switch / shift the conversation to his 'real' feeling (losing himself, scared, etc).
Gena / Touch Matters
And then you leave off with advising the care giver to try to reason with the parent, and go into this role-play of how to deal with them to make them feel better. Do you know what it's like to be in the muck and chaos of care giving a parent - to then feel the pressure of providing perfect words to them - which doesn't really change the outcome anyway? How much pressure can a care giver take? The amount of reasoning you can even get from an elderly person with cognitive issues is almost impossible. It sounds good playing it out, but to do in reality - not so much.
Isn't it easier just to flip a situation into a positive and simplify it rather than to get into this heavy, intense conversation with an elder? For me, when it came time for my father to stop driving (due to his starting to drive slower and less steady), I just said to him, "Well, now you're really lucky - you can get a cab to drive you wherever and it's like being chauffeured around - you've earned it...now you don't need to deal with parking and traffic - you'll feel freer now." And that was it - I told him that hardly anyone was driving at his age anymore and using a taxi is the trendy thing to do.
And that's it - no heavy talks - I certainly don't want to get into his head to try to analyse him - in fact, the lighter I made it, the easier the transition was. My parents got used to calling cabs and got to know the cab drivers, who were so kind to them - and they actually started enjoying it. It's all in the way it's re-framed - instead of making it like it was a punishment, I turned it into a positive/ luxury.
I just didn't understand your suggestion of confronting a senior with words like "fear" and "scary" - maybe they're not feeling that way in every case, so why put it out there? And really, if they are scared or fearful, isn't it just better to present a positive recourse instead?
There comes a time when age is a factor and you can't sing and dance to make it happy for everyone. Truth,as hard as it is,must be told, do it now and show some research if necessary.
Tell them you love and want them to be with you as long as possible.
Be strong! If possible, ask them to give the car to the younger ones in the family, they could use their help! Make them feel that they could better anothers life instead of taking a life. Yes,I know this says guilt trip all over the place! It's bad but can only get better if you put it into perspective. You won't lose them if you took the keys, you get lots of crap but you still have them! It's worth it!!!
you contact them.
In my area my husband lost his license and then had an incident driving.
The police instructed me to take the keys away to prevent
an accident or getting lost.
I know if my parents were in the same situation, my mother would never stop my Dad from driving, even if his license was taken away. The only way I could have stopped them was to take the keys or car away.
If you feel that you mother can't make decisions to keep them and others safe, I would keep the keys. If you return them and see your Dad driving, I would report it as it is a huge risk.
Did you try to discuss the situation with them or did you "storm in, grab the keys possibly yelling "mom, the doctor just got done telling us that dad should not drive anymore. I can't trust either of you now!"
I (and I hate to say this) would return the keys but I would put an airtag on them or other device so you know where they are and maybe check to see who is driving. If you live in a small town and the police know your parents you might want to give them a heads up that if they see dad driving they should stop them.
Taking the keys away leaves your mom "stranded" and unable to run errands.
Is it possible that the reason she is "not confident" behind the wheel because your dad did all the driving, possibly even commented on her driving so that she remained dependent upon him?
Leaving mom without a way to get to the store also puts more of a burden on you or other family members to take up the slack and do all the errands that mom could probably still do.
I certainly wouldn't for a moment believe that your mother could keep the keys from your father if you were to hand them back to her. Memory issues of her own or no, if he won't let little things like not having a licence stop him she's hardly going to be able to stand in his way, is she?
I drive locally during the day and in decent weather. I avoid freeway driving or unknown territory. I've used delivery or curbside pickup, especially during COVID, but prefer to select my own groceries and personal care items. I haven't used Uber. I would hope that OP's Mom could retain her car keys. If she is able to clearly understand the financial implications--to say nothing of any injuries resulting from an accident--I think she could be convinced not to give the keys to her husband. (I'm assuming that domestic abuse isn't in the picture.) Driving, if it can be done safely, helps to preserve an older adult's independence and lessens the care burden on family.
I had to sell his vehicle to get him into a NH with memory care because I had to spend down his finances to get him onto Medicaid. We still tell him he has his vehicle and its out at his sister in law's. His driver's license has been expired now for 3yrs.
You can't trust your parents especially if both of them show decline you did the right thing.
Prayers
My own brother drove until he had a bad accident, and was thankful afterwards that he was the only one injured. At that time, during hospitalization he was evaluated and diagnosed with probable early Lewy's Dementia. That changed everything at once.
You can speak to your Dad about diagnostic workups, about his driving, about your intention to report him, and encourage your mom not to be in the car with him. With her uncertainty she should not be driving, either.
I am really sorry. This may come down to Dad knowing this only after an accident, and I greatly hope no one gets hurt. A totaled care on the other hand would not be a bad thing.
It seems as if both your parents are no longer able to make the best and highest good judgment calls, and that is where you, with POA, must step in to keep them safe and out of harms way.
And it is time, not 'perhaps time', to have them start a new living arrangement in AL. To get my 93 yo mother to start considering it, I first went and looked at ALL the available options in the area - that way I could narrow down the list of places that might be seriously considered by her. The list was narrowed down to 6 possibilities. All of the facilities that were possibilities offered tours and also a lunch or dinner option the day of the tour. After a year of 'gradual touring' (meaning one a month or every other month), she finally agreed that it might a good idea. We started the process by a gradual downsizing (going through clothing, kitchen stuff, garage stuff, etc) so she felt she had more of a say in things. Unfortunately, she fell and broke her femur several months prior to the actual move, and the resulting surgeries and rehab were too much for her 95 year old body and she passed away before making the move.
Your dad's cognitive decline will prevent him from making rational and logical decisions (including understanding the ramifications of driving), and your mother, with beginning memory issues, has deferred to him all her married life, and is hesitant to make such a life changing decision that would disrupt your dad's life. Especially when it involves leaving their home to a place that might be considered, in their minds, their final place. As long as they stay in their home, they can overlook the obvious and also, don't have to admit their decline to themselves.
Perhaps start by taking your mother with you on a tour or two of AL facilities that would meet/exceed their expectations and yours. Actually seeing the places definitively helped my mother see that the places of today were not the places of yesterday. Having your mother on the same page might help with transitioning your dad to AL.
That all said, with both your parents cognitive declines, make sure you are active with supervising and managing their finances.
My 94 yo father with macular degeneration was driving up until two years ago because his eye doctor signed off for that he could drive in NYC certain hours of the day when the roads are not so congested.. (There is never a good time to drive in NYC). I was astounded that a doctor could be that stupid. We just figured the doctor would not sign off in his license renewal. It was clear my dad could not see well, not to mention his reflexes were not good.
After many subsequent arguments about his hanging up the car keys we had his granddaughter ask if she could buy his car because she needed a good used one. He actually was magnanimous and gave it to her. Thankfully our story ended well.
Perhaps arranging a set schedule for them to be taken to stores, appointments, pleasure outings etc ( notice I said arrange, not that YOU must do it all) will give them a way to ease into the change without feeling the full impact of loss of control over when they go and come . Protect yourself and them. You are doing the right thing.
However, maybe the thing to say, when the issue is brought up, is reminding them "While driving in town I saw my parent’s car in the other lane with my dad driving." Then point out... all it takes is having a head-on collision and someone be killed instantly! What if you are the other driver and both of you killed? If your mom is in the car... then it could be three of you. Even worse, if she isn't in the car... could she live with losing both of you. Keep reminding them that no family should have to live with losing their loved one(s) when it could have been easily avoided. The life you save, may be your own!
When my father stopped driving, I bought the car from him and that way he got to ride in it occasionally. My husband stopped driving after an accident where I was the driver. It wasn't even a serious one but the stress caused him to react in ways that had he been the driver, no one would have believed he was fine before the accident. That convinced me right there, had he been the driver we could have been sued for everything based on the opinion of everyone that he should have not been driving even though he was perfectly fine before the accident.
Even if no one is injured, if the other driver learns he has memory issues it can be used against him in court. So yes, losing a life is the worst case scenario but losing all your assets can still happen even when no one is even injured.