Uncle (92) is proving to be a serious danger to himself and others. He refuses home assistance and won’t move to assisted living. Suggestions?

Any improvements?

"They fill patients up with more and more meds as time goes by. There is NO quality of life. And it usually goes from assisted living, to More 'assisted' living, to full time care...translation, filled to the brim with meds and living in a depressed blur hoping for death. I have seen this pattern many times over."

sunshinelife, you are 29 years old and talk about "patients." Are you a doctor? A nurse? You don't appear to be a caregiver. Or are you?

There are many caregivers here who have placed their LOs in facilities, including me. My mother went from "independent" living in her condo to a 17-day hospitalization (gallbladder infection) to a SNF for rehab, and then she remained there after rehab was done. Did she want that? Of course not. Was she still deemed competent? Yes (since legal competence has such a low bar). Was I going to give up my life to move in with her, including care of her gallbladder drain? Of course not.

Don't lecture people about how bad facilities are. As people are kept alive by modern medicine and live to be older, it is not right that their relatives (usually in their 50's, 60's or even 70's) should be expected to take care of them.

Thistledown3's uncle is clearly a danger to himself and others, and APS/police should be called. What he wants is no longer relevant.

Contact ASAP ADULT SERVICES in his county. You will be gald you did. They will help.

Your Uncle knows that nursing homes are terrible places...he's lived 92 years after all.
You could cut the gas off and buy him a little electric cooker.
And call a lawyer yourself and find out what Your Uncles legal position is..Making a time for the lawyer to speak with both of you on the 3 way on the phone...or a consultation together (which is often free) to at least clarify his legal position
How many times has he fallen asleep in the car with the motor running?...And for how long?
And what proof do these ill intended neighbors have?
If its even true, probably occurred once.
More than likely caused by medications his pill pushing doctors have him on. Perhaps you might consider going with your Uncle to his doctor and finding out which medications he's on, how much and how often.
According to medical practice ethics, the dr is supposed to review all his medications every 6 months. This is often overlooked.
You could request they reduce them to the minimum recommended. Meds are prescribed on a scale, depending how mild moderate or severe a problem is.
And poly pharmacy brings many unwanted and distressing side effects...forgetfulness and confusion being very common side effects
These nosey neighbors are threatening to have him put into an old peoples home. So wrong. Who are they to dictate another persons life?!!
No body...that's who.
They can tell you they are concerned about his welfare. That is all.
I hope you aren't justifying your uncles behavior or your position to these nere do wells?! He is your family member. And you are loyal to him, right?
Although his body is 92, he is clearly still an able person, with feelings.
And by the way he OWNS the condo where he lives.
There are laws and requirements he would have signed to be in accordance with the condo committee . However, there are no laws or requirements that say he can't make mistakes...just as we all do.
Why are you so enthusiastic to send him to a nursing home?
Your headline is
"We can 'help' him do it, but he is not willing..Help please!
What you are actually saying is:
"tell me how to force my Uncle to make a major change in life that i want (to stop the neighbors complaining) so i can get back to my routine"
Did you ask your uncle what He would like? Doesn't sound like it.
You might ask him if he would be willing to make some compromises so he can stay in his home? And the nosey neighbors will stop bothering him and yourself
You might consider doing some reading about how things work in nursing homes.
They fill patients up with more and more meds as time goes by. There is NO quality of life. And it usually goes from assisted living, to More 'assisted' living, to full time care...translation, filled to the brim with meds and living in a depressed blur hoping for death. I have seen this pattern many times over.
Are you sure this is what you want for your Uncle? Surely not
The problems you mentioned are minor, and solvable.
He takes care of himself, gets out and about, And still drives himself. Good for him.
And it isn't costing you any money time or effort.
Help him find solutions HE is comfortable with...Help him who way he wants..that's what friendship is..
Somewhere in your heart you have a strong Light...you knew it isn't right to box him away like an old pair of shoes thrown quickly into the back of the closet...
Perhaps you could let that Light express itself and be his friend now, rather than his jailer.
Remember one day you too will be an old frail lady, and if you are in America, then probably at the mercy of one or some of your relatives.
Think about it.

Please have her call police for a wellness check.. urgently...every time.
In some areas its like a point system, they may need x number or calls of y seriousness to take action. Have them send you a report # each time...this means they have to write it up! Legal record!

If he is in early stages of dementia, calling the police may not be the answer. They aren't necessarily trained for detecting this and often those in the early stages can muster up enough to seem okay. He definitely needs an assessment, preferably by a specialist, as many PCPs are not as gouod "detecting" cognitive issues either. Not sure how useful APS is, and with the current situation you might get nowhere with them.

If you have POAs in place, they will be helpful, but they are NOT going to help you force him to get assessed, bring in help or move. Even if he is deemed incompetent, you can't force any of this. We had all that paperwork drawn up years before, but when we needed to move mom to MC and she was refusing to consider ANY move (we started bringing in aides, 1 hr/day, to increase as needed, but after about 2 months, she refused to let them in) and our EC atty told us we could NOT force her and would have to seek guardianship (expensive and time consuming, not what we needed!) In her case, one brother wrote a phony letter from "Elder Services" and used it to get the move done. She was angry, but reluctantly went.

In your case, assumption is you have none of this paperwork and it is clear you are not local. That makes things a bit more difficult. He will need an assessment and if deemed incompetent, he will need a guardian. Although you are not local, they might allow you to be guardian(s). Makes it harder to get it all done, but the only other option is to allow the state to appoint someone. If that happens, you have no control over his assets or where he lives.

To find an EC atty near his location, go to www.naela.org, navigate through Find a Lawyer and use his zip code (best to have someone local to him.) Hopefully he has some assets, as this should be paid for from his assets. Usually they will give you a 30+ minute consult for free, so you can try a few attorneys from the list. Have your questions drawn up before you call and take notes.

We didn't go the guardian route, but generally this will involve them assigning doctor(s) to make assessments. Not sure how the process works, but these questions can be asked with the attys. It might be best if there is a way to have him admitted somewhere for assessment while this plays out, to protect him, his neighbors and the condo buildings. If he really is incompetent, he shouldn't be living alone or driving.

I would get that ball rolling by contacting some attys. Sooner is better than later.

You might want to call social services and get a social worker involved.

These are crises! Notify an elder law attorney, his town's elder case worker AND social worker.

He is he is definitely a danger to himself and more importantly a danger to the other residents of the condo. Leaving the stove on and sleeping in your car with the motor running could get a lot of people killed. He could be suicidal, depressed, or incompetent; in any event, he's not going to help himself so start the ball rolling by calling both the police and the Adult Protective Services in his area. As others have said, if they find that he is a danger they can hold him for 72 hours and, if necessary, refer him to a crisis center. That will get him looked at medically. After that join with medical professionals to figure out what is best for him. If he's incompetent and you are not power of attorney or he has no poa listed, the state can appoint a guardianship for him. In any event, he and members of the condo will be safer once he's been evaluated. Good luck none of this is easy. And let us know how things turn out please

Ask his doctor what to do. Go see an elderly law attorney. They have seen this a thousand times.

The local Area Agency on Aging needs called. They will investigate and can get a court order to deem him a danger to himself or to others and have him appropriately placed.

Call adult protective services and have them pay him a visit. Tell them exactly what you wrote here and that if/when they determine he will need to get in home health provider (which I think less than 24/7 a day would not prevent the same issues from arising again) or moving to assisted living, you are available to help with making the changes for him.
If you get no results, call the condo and ask them to proceed with their process to force him out. He is a definite danger to himself and all of the other residents. The gas stove is bad, but a car running in a shared garage can cause deadly gas to leak into his own and other units killing them as they sleep.
Make sure condo folks have your phone number so they can give to police (if they have to be called about future incidents) and to anyone else who becomes involved in what happens with him.

Everything you can do for him and others is call for help.

Call Adult Protective Services in your uncle's county and explain what's been happening. Also, tell his neighbors that they must call the police every time these things happen.

They will have to at least do a check on him. That will start the ball rolling. If he's not very coherent when caught doing something dangerous, the police can initiate the process of committing him for a 72 hour evaluation. Then, experts can take over persuading him that he needs help.

Really? You are coming on here asking for something this serious? get a hold of the authorities at once .. Jeeze

What are you waitng for. Call the police and ask them for guidance.
You recognize the problem YOU must take action or you could be
indirectly responsible for his demise.

His symptoms may be dementia or depression. Call his local police. He is a danger to himself and others. They can have an involuntary psychiatric admission for evaluation. If he has depression, he will remain in hospital for treatment before release home. If her has dementia, social work can find a placement for him... against his will if he is deemed incompetent.

Call 911 and adult protective services and inform them that he is a danger to himself and others before he does burn the building down. They can admit him for observation and keep him for an undetermined time period. He may be placed in a facility where he is safe and not a danger to others.

Make sure the neighbors or you yourself take videos or photos of any evidence of incompetence. Document everything. If force eventually is required or you need courts to appoint a guardian ad litem some time in future you will want it all documented clearly.

While he is still functional, make sure all of his paperwork is in order POAs, medical POA and medical directives, will, etc. But with his dangerous behavior, it sounds like he should be transitioning to assisted living or having an aide/companion 24/7. My 96 year old aunt didn't want either one of them, but when presented with a choice of an aide or moving to assisted living, she preferred an aide. Her independent living residence would not let her stay there without having a 24/7 aide. I doubt if your uncle's condo will either, if they get involved. Another question is whether he should still be driving. You may have to visit to take care of some of these things. Perhaps you can be in touch with a social worker in his area to help advise you of the options and how to handle things.

Call Adult Protection Services. They will investigate. With things the way they are now, Police would be the better choice. Ask them to do a well visit.

It is very hard to force someone who is legally competent into care. Good luck to the condo association's lawyer with that! Possibly they can force him out of the condo but I doubt it will be quick or easy.

Let them know you and your brother are willing to help your uncle as soon as he asks for help but you can't and won't accept the "task" they are giving you.

Definitely contact APS. My spouse's grandmother lived in an apartment for 45 years. She was a hoarder and she was an uncontrolled diabetic. She left the stove on, fell asleep in her "chair," and the fire department had to break the door down, transport her to a hospital from which she was moved to a nursing home. She was not happy about that, but unreasonable and dangerous behavior results in loss of options. The condo association is right to be concerned. The whole place could go up in flames. And the elder who caused it would be liable for everything.

I can't believe this is not also true in the US: for some decades now, all gas cooking appliances have an automatic cut-out built in, so that if the gas is not lit the supply cuts off. There cannot be unburnt gas leaking into the rooms.

That doesn't stop him leaving the cooker burning, of course, which is far from safe; but it does mean there won't be a bombe surprise awaiting the condo's residents.

Like Beattie, I'm more concerned about this story that he is "sleeping" in his car with the motor running. Do the neighbours mean they found him in that situation and that was what he told them?

Stop telling him what to do. Ask him to talk to you about how he's feeling about life generally, and what he would like to do.

Meanwhile the other residents should start putting in calls to APS. One call per neighbour every time they observe a significant incident. Have they previously got on with him okay? How long has he lived there?

Sound the alarm loud with APS, his local Police & Doctor & tell neighbours to do same.

Gas in the home & leaving the car engine on? Do you suspect he could be suicidal at all? He may need to be forcibly taken for health eval (is the US term Baker Acted?).

It’s not safe for your uncle or his neighbors that share his building. A fire would be awful.

I would do as Cali suggests and make a call to APS. At least it’s a start by having documentation of his condition.

You might even want to tell the neighbors about the phone call in case they would like to inform APS further with a first hand account of what is happening.

report him to APS as a vulnerable adult ASAP. You can’t just force someone in to assisted living. If he hasn’t been deemed mentally incompetent and if you don’t have an activated POA, you don’t have any authority to act. But you can get the ball rolling by calling APS.