The other side of abuse. What can we do when the abuser is abusing the caregiver?

vicky64 - thank you SO much! He will not allow ANYONE to have a DPOA. I am his authorized representative for SS and Medicare/Medicaid. I did get in touch with A Place for Mom, and the social worker there gave me a list of low income senior apartments from HOPE for Seniors STL. So I have filled out the applications, and when he returns, I will have him sign them, and yes, we will get on every waiting list there is. The social worker from A Place for Mom also suggested these cheaper apartments near where his treatment site is, so I'm going to look at a unit there next Friday and put his name on that list (3-4 people waiting right now), so I look to get him placed in 3-6 months somewhere hopefully. I even spoke with my mom about it (and I haven't talked to her in years because of the family dysfunction), and even though they have been divorced for many years and she bad mouths him all the time, she is supportive of my decision and says the rest of the family completely understands. I do care about what happens to him, but I just cannot endure the crazy behavior any longer. I know his age is making it worse, and I'm hoping with the resources there at some of these independent senior apartments, maybe we can get him treated for some mood stabilization, as I am sure there is something else going on underlying....as there always has been. I won't wrestle with the guilt if I can get him someplace that will respect him and treat him with dignity despite everything, and then I feel like I won't just be dumping him out on the streets. Thanks everyone - you have been a big help and very supportive during this difficult decision, but I know now I'm doing the right thing.

ENDURE262 I am so sorry for what you are going through. While he is gone, you go looking at places and put him on lists to get into several, if possible, so that there is a place soon after he gets back. Who has DPOA for him? If you do, you make the decisions, and as gently but firmly as possible let him know where he will be staying so that you are still around to be a daughter!! Others have given you great advice and know more than I. You are being blessed by God because you care what happens to your Dad!!

pcampbell: EVEN IF HE THREATENED TO SHOOT YOU, THIS IS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. He may be "all roses and chocolate," after these explosive episodes. Do not fall for it. It is nothing more than a scare tactic!

pcampbell, You  need to protect yourself. He "threatened" to shoot you? He might do it. You need to get away from him and protect yourself. Others can tell you what you can do better than I can, but you need to get away from him  ASAP!  The National Domestic Violence Hotline (1-800-799-7233) in the United States, can help you plan your escape.   Depending on where you live, if  you can get to a police station they might be able to help you also.

My husband, who is 18 years my senior, still living at home, has dementia and has been verbally and emotionally abusive to me for the last 20 years. I am living on the edge. I don't know how much more I can endure. He is a physically healthy 85 year old. How do you divorce an 85 year old man? He explodes in rage without warning and his raging last for 10-15 minutes. He has threatened to shoot me twice. He has left 5-6 times but come has come back. Sometimes I think all this is going to kill ME before he dies!!

I know that I've read other people's posts about taking a family member to an assisted living, nursing home, wherever, against their will. I'm pretty sure that some with this experience will respond to you. It did seem, however, from reading your response to my post, that you don't want to be "the bad guy," and you don't want him in a facility that will just give "rudimentary care" because he can't afford anything else. It may not be perfect, but he will get the care he needs. Otherwise, you keep him and suffer more of the consequences that you are already suffering.... I know this is very difficult, but it seems that something must be done. I wish you the very best in handling this. Hang in there.

Mary 9999 - Yes, I have just recently come to that realization. I did get him on Medicaid and call the Area Agency on Aging. I do have Meals on Wheels that comes to him, and I tried to get Help at Home, but they were not coming regularly.

You are ABSOLUTELY spot on when you said that my doing the right thing has been at the expense of my sanity. I'm 5 years away from retirement, and my father's needs have been compromising my performance at work, and I told the rest of my family I just can't have that.

My family does not live near me. And when they do get involved, they complicate things.

My father will refuse to go anywhere. He's so out of it that he's making calls to people on Craig's List to "rent" rooms. And most of me just says, "Let him do it."

It cannot continue, but I also don't want him in a facility that will just be rudimentary care because he can't afford anything more, and I don't know that I could put him anywhere against his will.

My father was always eccentric when I was younger, but this - this is something different.

Thank you for reaching out in caring to me - it really is not tolerable anymore, and I just don't know what to do about it.

Right now, he is back in Costa Rica to meet with attorneys about the theft, and I'm sorry to say, but I feel liberated.

I am just not sure what my next move will be. I know if I turn him out, I will be the bad guy, and any family who might pick him up might be doing it just for money, but I also know that yes, this condition the way it exist is not tolerable any longer.

It was ok until the situation with the lawsuit about the money. It seems that stress really exacerbates the situation, and then he grasps at straws and desperately makes irrational pleas in phone calls and letters.

He's not due to be back until April, but even from afar, he is so confused that he cannot even make his own hotel reservations. He screws it up online and then berates me because I didn't help him in the first place.

It's truly garish how I'm being treated, and I am trying to do something proactive rather than hide my head in a bag and pretend this doesn't exist.

How do I get him to a facility for help? Or how do I at least get him to entertain that he needs some help?

Endure 262, you may think you've done the "right thing and the noble thing," but it's at the expense of your sanity. You say you are "paying dearly" for it, and you probably know that this can't continue. In my opinion, you don't have to give up your own life for an abusive parent. If he's indigent, there are ways that he can be placed in an assisted living, memory care, or nursing home, whatever he needs. Please contact your local Area Agency on Aging, or your local human services offices. You will be able to get advice on the appropriate steps.  (I'm pretty sure many of us were difficult teenagers... it doesn't mean we must give up our own lives to atone for this!)  

I doubt if this is going to get any better or more tolerable for you. It must be quite maddening to be treated so badly, when you are only trying to help. You have to think of yourself and your sanity, and what it's doing to your own health to have endless texts, complaints, and calls at all hours.   

Let the rest of the family help you with the decisions. Don't let them put a guilt trip on you. You have done what you could do. Please take good care of yourself. Everyone who reads and posts on this forum cares too, and many of us speak from our own experiences as care givers.

Countrymouse, he has Stage 3 colon cancer. He was operated on in December and is now going through chemotherapy. Cancer treatment has come a long way. He is fine on his own and does not need hospice at this moment. I'm not sure if the dementia was made worse by the cancer or not. He lived in Costa Rica until his life savings was stolen from him, and then he had to come live with me because he's indigent. The rest of the family doesn't really want anything to do with his care because of how he's treated everyone. I did the right thing and the noble thing, but I am paying dearly for it. I'm in my mid 50s and trying to care for him, but I think he needs more care than I can give him, most especially because of the way he treats me. If he had a pleasant personality, I can live with the dementia and get help, but he refuses to believe there's anything else going on with his mind.

I don't know what to say other than you are not alone. My own late mother kept on communicating with MY abuser, who was a pedophile uncle until his death. She never stood up for me at all and took it to her grave. The only good that came out of it is it made me a very strong woman. However, I had to be my mother's caregiver, who was NOT my protector. Good luck to you and your family.

Endure262, your profile says that your father has cancer? Isn't he going to need more care than you can provide on your own anyway?

This hit very close to home for me, except my father is living with me. I can't handle the attacks and the barrage of emails, texts, phone calls (and through dementia, I might add) to me all hours of the night and day, and when I don't address his needs, he plays the guilt trip. I want to care for him, but he also needs to live by himself if he's going to continue to push my boundaries. He does not have the money to go to an ALF, nor will he, and if I brace the issue with him, I am disparaged to my other siblings who do not help one bit. Quite frankly, I know I was a difficult teenager, but I can't handle this.

Hi Minstrel,

Bless you for not desiring to abandon your loved one, even though she is an abusive person to deal with. I agree with SueC1957 - when she strikes grab your coat and head out! I would also increase your time between visits. If you were visiting once a week, increase it and see what the response is. If it made an improvement, then don't fall back to more frequent visits.

Another point to think about is the fact that while you're afraid of abandoning your loved one, really what is happening is that their abuse toward you is causing them to abandon you - as they reject your compassion and love! Whatever the outcome of your visits; if the persons abuse causes you to depart early, you're not abandoning them! You have the right to protect your emotions.

It may be best to remember the person from their years when they may not have been abusive, and part ways. Leave them in the hands of the professionals. Tough love - yes it is tough, and generally the roughest on the most caring and compassionate people like yourself. May you be blessed for the years you endured the abuse as you responded with compassion.

Minstrel, is there any dementia or cognitive issues at play? I see this person is in AL, that's good but knowing there is some form of dementia at play changes the approach a bit, at least for me. It sounds like this person has been prone to verbal abuse on some level most of their adult life, so you are all accustomed to it to some degree. Unfortunately nastiness in various forms seems to be a common symptom of dementia (especially Alzheimer's), to a large degree I think it's born out of the anxiety that so often comes with cognitive issues but for someone who has those tendencies in their right mind it's just accentuated more. Unfortunately this is more likely to get worse than better, though as others have suggested experts who might be able to help with medication and or counseling for both the patient and family in how to deal with it all. But if indeed dementia is at play here at all I'm not sure how effective the "if you don't start treating me better I'm leaving and not coming back" is going to be. I'm not sure it's fair to everyone either because it implies that he has some control over his behavior and is both cognitive of and choosing to do it. Will he remember the lesson, is he capable of reigning in his behavior? Obviously he hasn't been so mean and crotchety all of his life that he has alienated his loved ones since you are very clear that everyone wants to visit and support him so my guess is he either isn't capable of being aware or capable of restraining himself, it isn't really him. This is a particularly impossible thing to separate from I imagine when your dealing with someone who has always had the tendency to be verbally abusive but maybe if you can try to recognize what is "normal" for him and then what is off the wall hurtful and try to let that roll off as not really coming from your loved one but coming from the disease. Again learn the skills to try and ward off the behavior, maybe it happens when they are feeling anxious or scared and you can figure out what triggers that. Learning to divert as someone mentioned and trying to put yourself in your loved one's place, not fully understanding what's going on, maybe not recognizing everyone and everything so when someone they do recognize comes along...loosing their home and the surroundings they are used to and knowing somewhere inside that they are loosing control. I know it's all easier said than done and I'm not sure there is a perfect answer but if indeed dementia is at play while threatening to stop visiting may not be realistic to actually change behavior but for the same reason cutting a visit short when the abuse is just too much makes sense. I might not try to make any points to the patient, if they aren't likely to remember the lesson or able to control themselves enough to reason with they also aren't going to remember or suffer from a shorter visit. They know loved ones came to visit and if you just go back with a fresh slate hoping the next visit hits them at a better time, no harm no foul. You have visited which is important to you and you are taking care of yourself and your relationship with this loved one by not letting the abuse get so far you are blinded. If that's making any sense to you. I'm not sure I'm explaining this well... Good luck, this is not easy no matter what you do.

Polarbear, yes I would think that once the authorities, APS, police...whoever are aware that there is a safety issue, physical danger to the wife, they would have to follow through and do something otherwise they would have some sort of liability should she be harmed. It's a bit different from an abusive spouse situation in that he has dementia so isn't even aware of what he's doing and certainly doesn't have control over his actions. No doubt she is terrified of all sorts of things because big changes are afoot. I can't even imagine how hard it must be in her position, do they have any family? Seems like they should be clued in too if they do have family anywhere. She may be good at hiding it from family that doesn't live close enough to drop by for a visit much the way you did.

Polarbear, I tseems that you have nothing to lose by contacting APS immediately. The wife needs protection; she could easily be beaten to death by her husband. I would think that APS could begin the process of getting Medicaid and placing him in Memory Care. At least it's a start. Your local Area Agency on Aging may have suggestions as well. Please do this for your friend. She is in a very scary situation.

Thanks everyone for your concern and suggestion to call APS. I might have to do just that. They will need Medicaid to pay for Memory Care since he's a wanderer. Will APS help them with that process? I don't think they have money for an attorney.

minstrel, I want to also say my mother did this in the beginning of her dementia journey (before we put her into ALF Memory Care) just after diagnosis when it became apparent through cognitive testing at the neurologist's with a neuropsychologist that she had deficits that showed dementia. She had most of her deficits in the time, financial and organizational areas. The neurologist told us to take over her finances and spending ability the day he gave the diagnosis. A few days later she wanted to send money to her church and I told her I would help her from now on. She became furious and told me all the things your loved one is telling your family. They truly can't see it. I explained that she had incorrectly made out checks (a 2.50 check for her grandson that was supposed to be $250.00) and was not catching scammers on her credit cards two years prior (she signed up for a free trip to Disneyland for one of her grandson; it was $50). My husband and I stopped that one, got a refund and checked her statement. We subsequently removed $100 per month repeat charges for discount programs from phone order catalogs. She never noticed them or questioned.
Almost 2 years later and a year in ALF, she has mostly stopped with the accusations,  but occasionally gets in a twit about something. I warn her that I will leave if she doesn't stop the harassment and then do it if she doesn't. The next time I am there she is usually different, but I never know who I will be seeing. It's part of the dementia journey. 

I will add that it is extremely helpful to see a geriatric neuropsychologist that works with a neurologist who specializes in the dementia field. Ours has helped mom with the aggression and negative behaviors that she was threatening me with. She is much easier to handle now and only occasionally nasty to me.
I'm sorry it is so difficult when your family is doing what is best for her.

polarbear - if your friend will not seek help on her own, contact Elder Protective Services. She needs to be safe also.

Encourage her to put him in assisted living with Dr help. She might have to divorce him first if Dr. Won’t him as incompetent. And then it’s to court which takes time. Fastest way is divorce. Someone moves out. House sold & all assets split.

Polarbear, I don’t want to scare you; but would encourage the caregiver to get help immediately when the dementia goes beyond to include physical abuse. Recently news in our area had a husband with dementia beat his wife to death. It upsets me to even put this into words but it happened.

Minstrel, we too have a parent who is unhappy with their life and when we visit vents his frustrations on us (his children). He says he does with us as he has no one else he talk talk to about his situation. The Dementia causes the brain to “fill in the gaps” of memory and reasoning, and in his frustration we have been blamed for things as well that he has previously agreed too; to being condescending about our own lives and health. It’s hard - you want to distance yourself but you know you cannot as they are loved and their situation is so sad. I try to use the 3 R’s - Realize that they are lashing out for a reason (Recognize), Reassure them, and Redirect - try to steer then clear of the conversation that is abusive to you. When that does not work and I can’t take it anymore; I give a warning that I will have to leave if they don’t stop; and then the next time I do. not sure if they remember what happened the last time you left; but they say with dementia “may not remember what was said, but they will remember how they felt”. do your best not to dwell on it once you leave or the verbal abuse...if it does you it will be hard on your own health. Let it go until the next time. A new page so to speak.

SueC1957 is right on about the verbal abuser as far as I am concerned. I had to do it with my mother. Limiting the time you are there is not abandoning the person. You are seeing to it that she has food and shelter. Eventually, mom would start, then say, "Oh, that is right YOU don't want to hear (whatever). I would say yes that is true, let me tell you about the grand kids,

Polarbear: As far as the physical abuser, perhaps she is afraid to do anything. Have you thought about calling the police yourself to do a welfare check on them? It could make things more dangerous, but he could kill her if something isn't done. I would call Adult Protective Services at least.

What Minstrel is talking about is a bad-tempered, sharp-tongued old woman who hasn't a kind or grateful word for anyone. Her language may be abusive, in that it is intended to be unkind or hurtful or insulting; but who is being abused? There is no victim here who has no choice but to take it, or who is subject to the old lady's authority. If you don't like her, don't visit her.

I don't disagree with continuing to address her mood through the good offices of qualified professionals. But do it for her benefit, to relieve her misery; don't do it just to make her nicer for the rest of the family to be near. Who's the one with the actual problem, after all?

Thanks SueC and polar bear for replies. She is in assisted living, has seen several psychiatrists. SueC I think you're right about the tough love, which I've tried but not enough so I will do more of this. Thanks.

Take a picture of your moms friend and give it to her. Keep copies incase she gets rid of it. This would be helpful to get him placed later.

Just seeing herself beaten up might be enough of a wake up call to do something.

My mother has a friend whose husband has dementia. We just got back from visiting them this morning. The friend's face has 2 deep bruises under her eyes, and her left upper arm was also deeply bruised from being grabbed by the husband. At 81 y,o,, he is physically fit, it's his mind that is mush. He thinks he is a big boss and owns all the apartments around the city they live. This is not the first time he attacks his wife. I urge her to put him in a facility, but she doesn't want to. Also, since he developed dementia, his mouth has no filter. He becomes very vulgar. One time, he suggested for my mom go upstairs with him, because he could still get it up and hard. He said he just tried it in the bathroom. OMG! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'm glad the abuser is in an ALF, and not living with any of you. I agree with Holiday about seeing a psychiatrist. Perhaps the meds can be adjusted to help with the depression and anger. Also, I would limit the number of visits and the duration of each visit. When the abuser starts up, leave.

You can't change what she does but you can can change what you do.

Unfortunately, the only way to stop this behavior is to stop the visit.
You could say, "Aunt Clara, I'm afraid we'll have to leave if you don't stop accusing everyone."
Then, if she continues, back up your statement by LEAVING-right then.
Pick up your coat and purse and walk out.

It's called tough love. She'll learn you mean business if you leave EVERY time she does this.

It's sad to have to handle it this way but I'll bet none of the other ways you've tried has had any effect.

Assisted Living Facility. After being assessed by a psychiatrist, if she is suffering with dementia, she goes to a ALF.