How can you tell when a completely narcissistic person is developing dementia?

Dear Isolated,

I'm very sorry to hear what you are going through. I know its not easy. We can all get so stubborn and stay in denial as well.

Clearly, there is an issue and it has be addressed. There are resources in the community and through the church. Do not be afraid to reach out and access those resources. Talk to the family doctor. Talk to a social worker. Check the Seniors Department of your town.

I would not wait it out because things will only escalate. My dad was similar and I thought he was just being a grumpy old man. But at 80 things were coming to head, he had high blood pressure, cholesterol issues, type 2 diabetes, and it was all from smoking. Its not easy trying to manage a person who is stuck in their ways. I for one just wished I had tried to find more resources for him and myself.

Have your doctor write a letter saying you do not suffer from BiPolar. Write everything down as it happens. Type it up and before his next Dr. visit take the paperwork to the office and tell the nurse the doctor needs to read it before the visit. This way the appriate questions can be asked. My Dad had to retire at 52 because of heart problems and later had diabetes 2. The brain is effected because of lack of oxygen. You may want his carotid artery checked. And the rage, this could get physical and when it does, its time for a NH.

Do you wait it out? Can you just get out? Throw him out? Slight cognitive decline does not excuse that kind of behavior. He sounds evil.

I agree with you writing a journal of what is happening for his medical people - also a statement from your doctor that you do not have bipolar disease. You could get these to his doctors in advance of any visits. They need to know the realities. My mother is borderline personality disorder and narcissistic. In order to deflect from her behaviours, she has, in the past, tried to claim that I had mental health issues . It didn't work. I saw a psychiatrist and got a clean bill of mental health. He saw her and she didn't. It sounds like your hub needs a thorough neuropsych evaluation by a geriatric psychiatrist and some meds. They have helped my mother a lot. Good luck to you. It is a hard row to hoe.

It does not matter that you are bipolar, or any other diagnosis. That does not mean you are wrong, and it should not negate any rights you have to leave, or improve things for you or your husband. These behaviors did not start overnight, and you have maintained a relationship with your husband somehow. Sorry that he seems untreated, uncooperative, and now dangerous. If he opposes you, stop trying to talk to his doctors for now. You are not the first wife to be forced to seek a divorce to save your sanity and marital assets. You are not the only couple struggling with disability, either one or both. This is to encourage you that you are not alone, but you will need to find your own way that is best for you. Start by taking care of you. trusting in yourself, in your reality, in your best interest.

See a therapist about your options, and for some letters concerning a diagnosis, if you have one. The therapist can validate your concerns. If you are stressed, and have a diagnosis, staying may be detrimental to your health and safety, if not now, very soon. Have a bag packed at all times, in your car with a full tank of gas. If you are mentally healthy, do the same, protect your sanity. This advice is coming from someone fully documented for years!

Consider having a safe place to retreat to if there is an increase in his bizarre behaviors. Learn how to limit the control he has over you. Ignore as much as possible what he does himself, in so far as it does not affect you adversely. Research narcissistic behaviors online. Get some emotional space between the two of you. Try not to view him as the enemy because of his illness, but you must protect yourself.

There is so much you can do, take breaks for yourself for right now, see a therapist.

Try not to look at this as all or nothing, give yourself some time, but be wise.

What has worked before?

Work hard to become not isolated.
Leave the house 3 times a week, minimum.
Go to a support group, on any topic that you are interested in or that concerns you.
That will be a start.
Be encouraged, people here will come alongside and try to help you.
Dear friends, I myself, am typing this from the library with my new library card. Lol for me!

BTW, I never had to use the letters after the divorce.

Group hugs all around!

.

Has he officially been diagnosed with dementia or what makes you think he might have early stages dementia. Telling you he doesn't remember doesnt necessarily mean he doesnt remember. Also if he truly doesnt remember it could be a trait of npd or a comorbid undiagnosed other pd like bpd. Look up site out of the fog for info. Just suggestions n my opinion. I don't know him n im not a doctor just sharing info ive been told about npd by professionals n medical docs etc. Keep safe healthy and create healthy boundaries use medium chill with him etc if u decide to stay n ride things out or weigh the pros n cons of remaining n not remaining with him. Also seek counseling to help u deal with things.

'isolated,' regardless of his issues you can fix that state yourself and you must. Echoing things above: get out of the house more often (anyone can find things to sign up for.. or become a regular at the coffee shop nearby), please sign up with a counselor, and leave him to his own devices more often so that his other family or friends can see his issues more readily. Good luck - only you can choose 'isolated,' please don't!

My concern is he has you declared unfit/incompetent first and has you put away. I would get out and fight for my assets long distance.

He's 66--you could wait thirty years or more. If you want to split and can afford it, it's okay if you decide to do that.

There are some things we can change and some not, but, we can change our own actions and behaviour. You do not have to take abuse if he takes that direction. Some people are just wired that way "the know it all" kind and you cant change them. They are not open to anything new and they know best. If he rages and is rude, you have to decide what you are prepared to put up with. People also leave, when enough is enough. Living in peace is more important to many, as we all age.

this is abuse. this is his personality disorder. go to the nearest womens abuse center for counceling on how to react or leave him. you do not deserve to be abused any more. this type of disorder will never change or get better. get the book called"the verbally abusive relationship" written by author named Evans. very helpful book

I am so sorry you are going through this. The aging process is not the Golden Years for some. I am a home health care provider and I have seen this many times over. We sometimes are in the same position with our clients..It is very important to have good communication between you and his doctor. Best advise is to have your doctor give you a clean bill of health to prove you are not the problem. Schedule a consult with his doctor to go over a mental health evaluation before his next visit. Also make sure he has given permission for his doctor to discuss all aspects of his care with you..Some spouses try to deny this and it is your legal right as his caregiver. Unfortunately this is a very common problem. Above all PLEASE get some help for yourself. It's a hard road your on and you need a break. Peace to you and good luck.

Sounds like my mother in law. Her usual responses to any bad behavior are a) I don't remember it so it didn't happen, b) if it did happen, I must have been asleep when I did it or c) why are yall making all this stuff up about me?

And when she says frog, somebody better jump.

I am so sorry you are going through this..I have seen this situation many times as a home health care provider..Best advice is to go to your doctor and get a clean bill of health, document you husbands symptoms, and schedule a consult with his doctor. Bring this information with you and and discuss what following testing and care is needed for your husband..Many a doctor has been fooled by their patients.. If the doctor isn't helping find a new one. You are your husbands caregiver and you need to make sure all legal documents are prepared to keep yourself safe. Seek out help from your local aging services..It is a hard road to travel for some. Above all take care of yourself. Find counselling to help you deal with your situation. Sounds like he's always been a bit controlling and you deserve better. Peace to you and good luck.

Thought I lost my first comment so retyped another one..both answers apply..

Mental health issues are always difficult to diagnose accurately, even for professionals. Many of us (and that includes me) have narcissistic personalities without being mentally ill...and meanness and lying aren't mental illnesses, only personality traits. On the other hand, if this behavior is vastly different from his previous self, then he may be in beginning stages of dementia--only a neurologist can confirm this. Many elders with history of high BP, triglycerides, etc., have had transient ischemic attacks that can't be picked up even with MRI but cause decided behavioral changes. Only in retrospect, when a definite stroke happens, do you realize what has been going on physically. However, a neurologist or even better a neuropsychologist (who has a 7 hr test battery) can give a more accurate diagnosis of dementia, if your husband is amenable to taking the tests, that is. This was the case with my late husband. After the neuropsych tests he recognized he had not performed well, and was amenable to our moving back to our old hometown to be near our children. Actually I had not wanted to move myself, but after the diagnosis realized it was best. He died of massive stroke 15 months later and it was much better.

He sounds a bit like my FIL who also has had heart issues.

I agree...You should definitely get a doctor's note—or even one from your doctor and a psychotherapist—that confirms you are mentally-sound, and give the notes to his doctors. Hopefully it will open their eyes a bit. It may even ben worth seeing an attorney about this.

Get your own bank account and credit cards in your name only. It is very emotionally abusive behavior to lie about someone's mental health and gaslight them. If he is playing these kinds of games with his doctors, imagine how he could make things more difficult with finances and your ability to be independent?

If you cannot get help for him, it is worthwhile to look into taking a vacation from him. Is the house in your name? If not, is there someone you could stay with in the case things get unbearable?

Reach out to other people in your life you trust—old friends, family, and your own doctors. This may seem difficult, but letting him isolate you is dangerous for both of you. If he's really developing dementia, he can and will hurt himself. And if he's not, he's an abuser. Either way, you don't deserve to be treated that way or going through this all alone.

This is a difficult situation. Many individuals with Dementia do not recognize changes in their own memory. As difficult and emotionally charged the situation is, do your best to stay calm. Write a letter to your husband's doctor listing just the facts of cognitive declines and functional changes you have seen. I want to emphasize functional declines. Look for things he can no longer do that he did in the past. This is probably the largest red flag for dementia. Understand if he truly has dementia he cannot control his behavior. That doesn't mean you have to be his victim. Strive for some emotional detachment and take care of yourself. Seek out your own support team and focus on strengthening your own friendships. Take steps to secure your large assets. Set up safeguards with the bank or a financial planner that requires both of your input before transferring large sums of cash. If your husband refuses, take whatever legal steps available to you to independently protect your assets.

My partner has similar issues .. now I am in the UK, not USA.... I wrote a letter to his GP which probably sounded like a cry for help about his mental state and believed he had the onset of dementia, from that letter the GP advised he saw a Psychologist and latterly a Psychiatrist. Sadly little was done other than he is on medication for mood swings, but he is now recorded as having mental health problems and onset dementia. This reinforced my position as an isolated carer and what he was saying about me was absolutely gobshyte. I have learned to ignore him when he throws tantrums and as with any child, he can't stand being ignored .. this has helped with his behaviour. But you must also get out and meet with other people and find a life for yourself as I have done. Also like so many have said here, its always conceivable that its time to take a hike and divorce for your own mental state and wellbeing. Lets be fair here, you have a life to lead over and above him, and your lifespan is dwindling. The best advice I got from a Senior Psychiatric Nurse was "don't let him get you down - recognise the signs and deal with it immediately for your own sake" ... so true. Mine has two cancers and numerous other issues, to be honest, I'm staying for the money rather than losing 50% to him, but accept this may be what I will have to settle for. Good luck xx

First all engineers believe that there are 2 opinions on every subject ... theirs & the wrong one - it is in the nature of the beast & 99% of them are like that - I always said I'd never marry an engineer because of that & I didn't

2 - use your cell phone & start taping his episodes - that will be proof positive about what you are saying - if you don't have a cell phone get one even if he objects - say it is for your security but you can also some of these new cameras - just turn it on without him knowing when he acts up

3 - go to a dr. yourself & get tested for bi-polar so then you can show his dr. that he made it up - by now he probably believes it himself so he could take an oath that what he is saying is the truth but that is part of what dementia is about - he is showboating at dr's

4 - Get some friends or support group or take a class you like - do you drive? I ask because these controlling types do all the driving so then the spouse stops renewing driver's license which adds to their dependance which they love - just go to these things anyway you can to relieve the isolation

5 - Go online to TEEPA'S GEMS & some of her other stuff - educating yourself is empowering yourself - good luck & we all hope the best for you

If you didn't manage to leave him before, do it now. Know that for a person with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) there is no way but going no-contact. There are plenty of specialists on YouTube channels recommending precisely that. A Narcissist won't ever get cured for anything because...'how he could ever be ill with something?'.
NPD is a severe condition and their aim is to have you as a punching bowl (you are going to be blame for his mistakes and he is going to tell every body about it -as usual- so he could appear to be the target rather than the culprit). If you appreciate your peace and your sanity, leave now. It can only get worse with the dementia. Don't think about stereotypes of being the one who 'should' support him -because you are the wife-. IT WON'T GET BETTER, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE AS MISERABLE AS HE WANTS YOU TO BE. Go no-contact, and live your life. This is not selfish, it is based on a conclusion from psychologists all over the world. There is no cure for NPD, neither for dementia. I've been there... my then 'other NPD half' told everybody I had autism -and other things- because my brain doesn't function.. but understanding it is always an excuse for them to 'appear' as the social friendly individual and you as a 'poor odd thing that they happen to have as partners'...you get the hint of it. Don't spend your money doing test on yourself as a proof that you are ok.... they won't change their minds and he would say that the specialist doesn't know a thing. They lack empathy and they will perform with good acting skills to keep you by their side. Don't confront him...just leave. I do recommend you to watch these videos..they helped me soooo much. I'm living my life away...and feeling epic. Think of yourself.

If he is as you describe, I'm going to hazard a guess that there are no legal documents drawn up before hand, such as DPOA and medical directives. If not, despite being his wife, his doctor's primary concern is his patient, your husband, and he may not listen to anything you have to say. Where you go from here depends on many factors.

As others have suggested, can you record his behavior on a "smart" phone? Do you have any family or friends who have (or could) witnessed this behavior (and would be willing to back you up)? If not, you are in the "he said/she said" zone. A note from your doctor stating you have no behavioral issues might help convince his doctor, but there are no guarantees. A person in the initial stages of dementia (or even without) can present themselves so differently to others, including the doctor, so as to appear quite the nice guy, smart and oh-so-poor him because YOU have a problem and your doctor lies about it. Having visual proof would go a long way to convincing his doctor there IS a problem (do NOT take hubby with you for that appointment!) and then perhaps you could make some headway in getting a diagnosis and treatment (of course hubby can still refuse that treatment).

If you cannot record and/or have no one to back you up, then you must decide if he will be physically abusive at any time. Verbal abuse is nasty, as it is VERY painful to the recipient and there are no visible signs to produce for anyone else, making it again your word against his. If he is merely caustic verbally, you CAN learn to tune it out, let it roll off your back because you know what he says is not true, walk away or do whatever to just let him rant on without it impacting you so much. You cannot change someone else's behavior, only your own. Recommendations from others to get out of the house, find your own space, do things you enjoy or if needed get moral support either through friends, family, social groups or therapy sessions are very good. You need to have a life of your own even if you stay. Keeping yourself isolated only allows him more access to verbally abuse you. Get out. Make friends. Take up a hobby or two. Certainly at the FIRST sign of any physical abuse, get out! The first will NOT be the last. You can only take care of the issues if you are alive!!!

Divorce or "running away" from this is not necessarily easy or the right thing to do. YOU must make that decision and base it on all considerations. If hubby was not like this before (yes, he is/was a know-it-all and smarter-than-the-average ranger, but was he previously verbally abusive?), then certainly there could be an underlying medical reason for the change(s). Dementia is often one of those, but not the only cause. Can he selectively forget he has done this, or just outright deny it? Sure. Can dementia cause it and then he forgets? Absolutely.

Another consideration is the time of day these outbursts occur. Is it any time of day or later in the day/evening? That could lead one to suspect sun-downing, which is yet another signal that this would be dementia talking. Our mother, who lived alone, just took on OCD behaviors, checking things over and over and over AND OVER before retiring for the night (we had some non-invasive cameras set up because she was showing signs of dementia and also because we were monitoring the nurses aides we hire, that she refused to let in after a couple of months.) Had she lived with one of us or if our dad was still alive, she too could have developed that verbal abuse or even physical abuse as before the dementia started she could be "difficult" - read pig-headed although she was never an engineer!! Others have reported that the LO becomes nasty, aggressive or what have you, but does not recall it and is sweet as pie in the morning.

If you can determine that his behavior is new and can attribute it to dementia, as a caring, presumably loving wife (at some point you cared!) you should do everything you can to 1) protect yourself and 2) see to it that he gets the care he needs. #1 entails getting that proof if you can AND having a safety plan in place for yourself. #2 could mean getting his doctor on board, getting treatment in place or seeing to it that he gets moved to a facility.

If you (and any authorities you bring in, like his doctor or APS) determine nothing will help and he must be moved, without the legal documents mentioned above, you would have to consult with an Elder Care attorney to ensure asset protection for you and guardianship/stewardship for your husband. Consults should be free, so you could check with several and weigh the options. However this method is NOT cheap, and it is time-consuming. Costs will likely be elevated because Mr. Know-it-all will contest it and either hire an attorney himself or the courts will appoint one. IF you go this route, it might be best to temporarily relocate to a safe place - with family, apartment, hotel, whatever, because this process could trigger the physical abuse if he feels threatened.

Weigh all your options, consult with his doctor (even without the video or confirmation from someone else, if you go to consult with the doctor alone, he should be able to discern that YOU do not have a problem - of course having a note from your own doctor to back you up will not hurt) and discuss/explain all the issues, consult Elder Care attorneys and then make the decisions that need to be made. Plan for the worst, hope for the best!

OMG--you are describing MY husband!
Moecam---my dad was an engineer and I knew no other "kind" of man--however, he was a sterling father and a so-so husband. Wives of engineers learn early to have low to no expectations for anything "emotional". My dh thinks emotions are icky and stupid. I cried one tear when my son had brain surgery and massive stroke during it..and my Dh barked at me "Stop being so overly dramatic!" (The dr who was delivering the news, BTW, said to dh, "she's acting completely appropriately, given the situation". (son recovered completely--in case you were wondering.)

In order for me to co-exist with hubby, it has taken a lot of "give" on my part. He wears me out with his absolute need to ALWAYS be right. ALWAYS. Nothing is his fault. Nothing, not ever. If it can be twisted to be MY fault, he does that.

I have my own "cave" where I can sleep w/o him (he has RSL, sleep apnea and refuses to wear a CPAP) This makes for a lousy bedmate. We have not been intimate for years and years, and I really don't feel anything towards him in that department any more. My cave is where I retreat when he's being a jerk and where I can craft, read, sew or watch my shows in peace. Sometimes we do things together, but it has to be something he likes or he pouts. (recent Alaskan cruise was 7 days of h*ll on water--he was SO MISERABLE).

I DO have some major mental issues, from being severely abused as a child. He used to bring up to the kids that mom was "mental" and not stable--but since he has learned that the abuse was far worse than I had ever told him, he stopped that, pretty much.

We're not close. We were once, but we are a complete mismatch. I go my way, he goes his, I am trying, through serious therapy to learn to have a voice and some strength. He may or may not be a part of my later years. I am making 2 plans. One with him, and one without. The "move" will happen in the next 18 months to 2 years. I honestly don't know if I will want to retire with him. He is the most selfish man I have ever known. And it's getting worse. He can't hear, so he shouts at me. This alone makes me feel small and stupid--and that is his goal, whether he means it or not--he wants me to shut up and go away. BUT he wants a clean house & clothes and hot meals and the lawn mowed and the bills paid......

I am still in the "planning for the worst, hoping for the best" but things are not getting better. He sees a psychiatrist, himself, but I see absolutely no change. She tells him to "follow his heart and do what makes him happy". I'm pretty sure she's not even aware he'd married.

Wishing you, and me, good luck.

And I don't think it's dementia, I think it's a coping mechanism for when they can't think as fast as they used to....it seems like dementia, but it's just aging. Just my opinion.

H*ll no..do not wait it out...get your ducks in a row...document everything and find a way to get the help you need..and get away from him...

Why are you isolated..do you have a vehicle..does he have you locked in the house are you afraid of him......there are agencies that  can provide you with help...
Have you ever been diagnosed as bipolar and if so or you taking medicine because if you or then you are doing the right thing and there is no shame in that...
The shame is the abuse this man is using on you...he is emotionally blackmailing you......and I hope the emotional abuse does not turn into physical abuse.

Why are you with this man?  I would suggest that you talk to his doctor see if the doctor can put him on anti anxiety, depression medications to calm him down .....and if the doctor does not support your decision..then find yourself a good attorney and get out.

Good luck...you deserve so much more and a better life.

About 10 years ago I learned what narcissism was and it defined my mothers behavior. Just about a week ago or so, I was online looking for support groups and came across "Borderline Personality Disorder." I was surprised to see she fit that description even more so. There is a comorbidity factor with mental disorders. So, I put that out there because your husband may also have BPD. No matter what, he's not going to change for the better but most likely, as he ages, it will be for the worst. You will be the victim of his abusive and intolerable behavior and it will chip away at your mental, emotional and physical health. Been there, done that. Please don't allow guilt to keep you victim of his abuse. That's like taking poison because you feel badly for him. What are you exactly asking, "Do I just wait it out?" Whether it's disease or disorder causing his behavior, even if he is not cognizant of how his behavior is effecting you, it doesn't really matter. ... you need to get help right away. Also, please take this advice... I would do anything and everything to get my mother to do the things necessary to keep her in optimum health, but in doing so, I ended up on anxiety medication and having horrible psoriasis breakouts that I now need to control with medication that lowers my immune system. Her resistance ended up draining me to the point of illness. Get the picture? She was not and is not cooperative and likes all the time and attention I devoted to coaxing and encouraging her. Now, if she doesn't want to eat, I don't give her the health lecture or I don't spend wasted time encouraging her. She has mild dementia, so she's aware of her choices. If she complains of aches and pains, I ask her if she would like to see her doctor, she says no. No more coaxing on that too.  People like us don't understand the concept of taking care of ourselves. We run ourselves to the ground taking care of others. That doesn't make us a saint, it makes us physically, mentally and emotionally ill. Sounds like you are playing the same role... you're continuing to do all you can to help your difficult and combative husband while he is undermining you to everyone.
I agree with Katiek2009. With your husband convincingly undermining your mental health to everyone, you may end up having the control of your finances taken away from you or who knows what this could lead to... social services coming out to investigate you?

What is there to wait out... seeing how far you can last without an emotional breakdown or developing physical symptoms of decline?

This is so difficult for you, we empathize and understand. Start with one small step.  Make phone calls... try to find someone who can be your advocate and help you with this. You have way too much on your shoulders and isolating will only make things worse for you. Keep us posted. God bless you.

Get one of those little recorders that are voice activated and record what he says. Start documenting.....

Oh my goodness, People. No, not every Engineer is "like that." My husband is not (he's a very nurturing man) and neither are his friends and his boss. That'd be like me saying every Graphic Designer has borderline personality disorder just because I happen to know a couple who do. Neither is true, though you may find those types of personalities are attracted to those careers. This is not to take away from anyone's experience, but having trouble with feelings or being controlling is not an Engineer thing. It's a man (or woman) who has mental issues thing. 

For the record, I'm a retired Engineer. We're like everyone else. Most are good people, but there are a few horse's butts in every crowd.

Maybe both of you are right! I'm going to be blunt. Sorry, there's no other way. First, discard any hope of changing/ enlightening a narcissist. As dementia progresses, he'll blame you for tricking or stealing or scheming behind his back. He'll not accept that he has dementia. Because, that simply would not happen to him or make him acknowledge that he's weakening or losing control. You'll FAIL.

Secondly, the more you have been together, the more you have exposed yourself, willingly or unwittingly to abuse, emotional or otherwise. You may have adapted to the situation by becoming an enabler, just to get him off your back, initially. That sort of thing changes a person's personality, dramatically. You would have suppressed or expressed certain feelings and actions in your role as an enabler that goes against your basic moral fiber. But, they have a way of coming out, one way or other.  "he started raging at his wife (me)...".  That line indicates possible dissociation?  To start with, set your finances in order and get a separation. Find a therapist knowledgeable in this area for yourself. Join a support group. Open yourself to positive people again. Warn yourself against associating with similar narcissistic personalities in future. Because, you may unconsciously tend to replace him with another similar 'him' or try to mold someone on 'his' image. That's the kind you may have known, so far. Immerse yourself in activities dear to your heart to avoid ruminative thoughts. Do meditation and yoga or whatever physical activity. Rediscover your wonderful self again.

Thirdly, if you are too emotionally invested and unable to leave him, get him to agree for a MRI scan on his brain by someone (he trusts or respects) other than you. The test would hopefully indicate whether its dementia or gliomas or something else. If its dementia or glioma, his behavior is going to get worse. He'll not trust you with a POA.  He'll turn into his younger self throwing temper tantrums like a two-year old.  Just be ready for it, financially and emotionally. There's nothing else to do, but Pray! Pray! Pray!
Good luck!