Has anyone had to go through friends trying to help out, either through talking or physically help, only to hear them talk about their own prior situation and create more work for caregivers like myself?
I'm currently the sole caregiver to my husband who suffers from dementia and physical limitations and requires 24/7 care. When friends talk to me, they always revert back to themselves and talk about how they can "sort of" identify with what I'm going through and the conversation is all about them. Not that I don't care, but I'm going through something that requires all of my time and energy and the last thing I want to do is tell somebody else I'm sorry for what they went through even though it's not nearly the same scenario that I'm going through with my husband. How do I digress and redirect the conversation without making them feel bad? I don't want to lose any friends or feel any resentment. It's not my intention at all, but I do have a hard time accepting that people want to help when all they do is talk about themselves.
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I’ve certainly found that people want to hear that you are coping OK, even though that’s not how you feel (eg ‘I hope you’re getting back on your feet now’, six months after our house and farm infrastructure burned down in a wildfire). The truth doesn’t work well. It’s hard work for counselors to hear people’s problems all the time, and they get paid for it. Some angels volunteer to do it – like the suicide counselors who run a night shift for the small hours crises. Momsonlychild in a reply to my earlier post asked for examples of telephone counselor services, which I can’t help with for the USA – CAN ANYONE ELSE GIVE SOME CONTACTS?
I’ve learned to keep my mouth shut about big problems. It’s hard when they dominate your life (the elephant in the kitchen syndrome), but I’ve found that talking about them often makes me feel worse anyway. ‘Put on a happy face’ was the advice for the Depression. It’s hard to do, but it’s still good advice.
Don't lose focus. Let them say "whatever."
Just keep doing what you are doing. Don't worry.
That is sad but, true. The "fitting in" will always be a problem when our life circumstance(s) take a dramatic change especially if it changes our time schedules which obviously it does and would when it comes to health challenges.
I find it sad because it reminds me of when we're children or teenagers and we're wanting to be part of the "in crowd." To me it really brings out the superficiality of those relationships - as long as you're fun and can bring something to the table, it's great but there doesn't seem to be tolerance or adjustments made for anything less than that.
I'm sorry you and your wife have experienced this when you need meaningful relationships the most. But, I applaud you for recognizing the need to accept it and move past it - tending to the "garden" you have at hand. Sometimes you may find that "garden" is even better!
Beautifully, said - I wish you and your wife the best!
Think of things you *would* like them to do, or *would* like them to talk about. If you say to them, frankly but cheerfully, "to be honest I could do with a complete change of subject. Read any good books lately?" (or whatever you all used to talk about back in the olden pre-caregiving days) they really shouldn't be offended. It can't be wrong for you to want a break.
Of course it may be that sometimes they do have issues they need to work out by talking them through. You can still be prepared to listen, if at that moment you do have time; but don't hesitate to say to them - frankly, again - that you sympathise with their feelings but your situations are in no way comparable.
And in the last resort, don't forget that there are some people who call themselves friends who... aren't. I shouldn't worry about losing those.
Treat others as you would like to be treated. If it becomes clear they aren’t reciprocating your kindness, simply leave.
You don’t owe them an explanation if you don’t want to talk about it.
Is just being friends & finding a professional listener an option?
My DH told me he could no longer listen to my family issues. Hard but honest. So I found a professional. Proper time to offload. No 'fix it' attitude being flung back at me. Better relationship with DH. Win win win.
My neighbor hates her job. Every night she goes home and complains to her husband about it. She tells me too but I don’t have to listen to it daily so it doesn’t bother me. I show empathy to her. She told me that she didn’t understand why her husband wasn’t compassionate about it. I stayed neutral on that topic.
One day while outside, I was chatting with my neighbor and he told me that he wished his wife would look for another job because he was so sick of hearing about it. If a spouse constantly talks about something the other spouse will tire of it. Again, I just listened and reminded neutral.
Haha, not going to place myself in the middle of it.
You are wise and loving to understand how your husband meant it. Good for you!
How about just telling them "This is distressing to me, can we talk about something else?" Or be prepared with several topics you can divert them onto. They just might be grateful for the change of direction.
You’ve had two good suggestions here.
The first is to find a service with volunteers whose real task is to hear people’s troubles. The Alzheimers Association was suggested, or perhaps Lifeline. You may be able to find others that would give you what you want and need.
The second is to set some rules for your phone conversations – perhaps think it through and send an email with the rules. You don’t want to talk about your husband and your difficulties. You want them to tell you something interesting that they have been doing. Perhaps you could tell them jokes you’ve heard – the Jokes site here has over a thousand old postings, and starting from the beginning should give you something to say for a long long time.
Don’t keep on doing something that isn’t working, and try not to write off all your old friends. It’s even possible that you might find yourself in their position in the future. You might understand only too well what they are going through, but you may not want to be reminded about it.
Yes. I believe people that turn the conversation to themselves OR their own experience do so for these reasons:
(1) They are totally unaware;
(2) They cannot project / experience an other's feelings (which is what awareness and self-development is);
(3) They don't know what to say and belief they are 'helping' - even though they aren't;
(4) Many people are totally self-absorbed and totally unaware of it.
How to deal with these communications:
(1) Stop them immediately.
(2) Don't apologize. This is not about them. It is about YOUR needs.
(3) Be clear on what you need / want from them - spell it out (if you want to put the energy into communicating with them). They might learn something and appreciate how you guide them. If they don't appreciate and/or learn from it, you don't need them in your life right now.
(4) Give them a book on Non-Violent Communication aka Compassion Communication. All the steps are in there.
(5) Tell them what you need now is REFLECTIVE LISTENING. If they don't know what that is, ask them to research it on the internet.
(6) Choose new friends who have more self-awareness.
(7) If you do not want to discuss directly face-to-face, write them an email or call when you feel you can. Keep conversation short, i.e., "This is what I need from you, a friend, right now and list in bullet points xxx. It might be necessary to say "Please, just listen. That is what I need right now. I do not need to hear about you and your experiences. Just listen. And thank you. If they don't hang up, tell them what you need now. Good luck.
I'd share a couple of my own similar experiences, but then I'd be doing exactly what your friends are doing. Gena.
Yes, that helps me understand your situation better. That being said, you will never "win" with narcissists (if they actually have NPD).
They aren't caregivers and when you tell them exactly what you need/want from them, they don't seem to be really interested in understanding those needs. There comes a time when we need to quit explaining - it's the saying "doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result" type of thing. It never seems to work out that way. It's not the advice you received from all those people about you reaching out that's the problem - it's who you are reaching out to that's the problem. Those particular friends don't seem to be able to give you what you need.
When we are tired, we can't see the forest through the trees. Grieving is natural if you end up leaving a friendship even if it's for your own sake and mental well being. It sounds like you really need to have time to yourself to sort through things. It's hard to do that if you have all those external distractions going on.
You said this time that you're not even sure if you feel lonely and are actually content with not having anyone around. If you're fine with hiring a caregiver when you need a break, I would continue to do just that. When I left my long time friendship, it was a huge relief and I have no regrets. It doesn't mean that I still didn't hurt or grieve because 26 years is a long time to have a friend in your life.
You can't control if you say something to them whether or not they will think you are being passive-aggressive - that's up to them to choose to feel that way. This is you and your husband's life. You are married to him, not them. You could just tell them, this is a new chapter in your life being a caregiver to your husband and you need this time to devote solely to him and leave it at that. We get into trouble when we feel like we have to explain additional "whys" when making a factual statement. You don't owe them anymore than that as long as what you tell them is how you truly feel.
I hope that helps -
I am someone who has undiagnosed learning challenges. I know I have challenges, but I do not know the root cause. Over the years I have developed strategies that have allowed me to excel in school and life.
I can only retain information if I can relate it to something I already know. I do this my repeating what I heard and saying aloud how it relates to prior knowledge. It is not a sign of disrespect on my part, it is the only way I can retain information.
I often do this when answering questions in these forums. I relate what has been asked to my own experience, or things I have witnessed in my family or professional life.
Now, if I had come over to your house to stay a few days and help out, I would need a list of things you need to have done. Even if to others it would be obvious what was needed, I work from lists.
In the past, again am relating to my own experience, I have learned not to load other people’s dishwashers, but it is ok to empty them if I know exactly where things go. Now if I see a counter covered in dishes and can fill and put the machine through I will. Why am I mentioning this, which seems silly and unimportant? I was verbally attacked for putting dishes in someone else’s dishwasher “the wrong way!”
If you provide a list of things that need doing, have it clearly posted, I can work through it, and will. Post the grocery list and I will get the shopping. Tell me what you usually have for meals and I will prep it. But without any guidance I would be lost. I would worry that I will do the wrong thing and even though I see that you are stressed and tired, I will have a very hard time asking you what you need me to do.
So these people talk about themselves. I blame the 12-Step meetings, even though it has helped so many people.
Of course, that is not the only reason people are so egocentric and self-absorbed.
Twelve Step programs are great. I tried endlessly to get my brother that died to attend regularly. He went years before but stopped. In some of them, families can join in. Others are closed meetings to outsiders. I went to support my brother.
They have to adhere to those rules so people can’t all speak at the same time. They want them to focus on themselves, for a specific reason, to hold oneself accountable for their actions even if circumstances led them into their addiction.
12 steps really do work if they follow the program. There are many success stories.
You mentioned distancing yourself from them. Maybe that is what you need. If they are upsetting you, don’t torture yourself by being around them.
Maybe look for some new friends. Have you ever done an ‘in person’ support group? I did that for awhile. It was led by a social worker and she was great! We hit it off and we even met for coffee every week outside of the group because we found that we had a lot in common with each other.
The other people in the group had various situations. We got along. It was an interesting group.
I know things are all together different now due to COVID but in the future perhaps you can make an effort to meet people that you feel like you connect with better.
Something else to think about is, are these people ‘real’ friends or only acquaintances? There is a difference. It doesn’t matter how long you have actually known them. They may not be genuine friends.
Wishing you all the best in your situation. Caregiving is never easy for anyone.
Your friends are trying to relate, that is why they are grasping for events in their lives that are similar. They can't.... So keep that separate and enjoy not discussing your husband for a bit and get the scoop on other things going on ;-)
In their own way they may be trying to show you that they do have empathy for your situation and are hoping that you empathize with them as well in their lives, even if the circumstances are different.
It gets complicated at times. When I was primary caregiver to my mom, the first thing my friends would say to me is, “How’s your mom?”
I certainly understood them inquiring about her. It was nice of them to do so. But I started to feel invisible. Once in awhile I wanted them to ask how I was doing?
Well, one day I ran into an old friend and I was telling her about how I felt. She had been a caregiver to her mom and I asked her if she ever felt as I did.
My friend smiled and said, “I did feel that way. I needed someone to ask me how I was holding up but my friends never did, but every time my mom’s hospice nurse would come to our home, the first thing she asked was, how was I doing and I always felt better after seeing her.”
My friend’s answer really helped me. We can’t force others to see something but there are people who do know how you feel.
Many on this forum will know. You may run into someone at some point and they will completely understand how you feel. I hope that you do. We all seek validation and want to be heard.
Best wishes to you.
You're very gracious but, it still must be painful that they don't want to know your son because he is a part of you and your husband as well as your lives - a huge part in fact.
Your friends don't know what to say, but I think they're actually trying to give you some solice. I think they're doing it in a spirit of friendship so you may have to put up with it. If your uncomfortable with it, tell them politely.
The best way to handle this matter is with a direct and up front approach. Tell your friend you would like to speak to her about your situation, in an honest manner. Then tell her what it's like, because she doesn't know. Then proceed to ask for whatever help you'd like from her, if that's what she's offering. But you'll have to cite specific needs you have rather than being vague, because again, you're treading into 'awkward silence' territory. With any luck at all, and after a couple of these conversations, you'll feel more at ease with your friends and they with you.
Wishing you the best of luck!
I'm venting at this point, because I've had to explain myself more than a couple of times and there comes a point when they don't make any effort to understand further, it's disappointing and I start to feel resentment.
I think you may be new to the forum so welcome!
I understand what you are experiencing. I think it stems from our culture having become more and more a "me, me, me" type of thing. I also, think when your friends say they can "sort of" identify with what you're going through, they use that as their segue to revert the conversation back to them. It may also be similar to what happens when you lose a loved one - people don't know how to talk to a person who is grieving and I think there are many people who don't know how to talk to someone who is a caregiver. Also, unfortunately they simply don't want to hear it. It's very hard not to feel resentment especially when you do give of yourself to their situations/problems. One upmanship is also a possibility i.e. you do x,y,z and they come back with oh yes, I do w,x,y,z - that may or may not apply to your situations since I don't know the specifics within those friendships.
Anytime someone is understanding, compassionate and caring, you run the risk of being "used" in a sense to get that type of response. And I have been there - I let go of a friend of 26 years in June. I gave and gave and then gave some more and I was done after my mom nearly died from severe dehydration and COVID at the age of 95. When I texted her what happened to my mom, I didn't hear back from her in over a week and all she said was "how's your mom?" I have listened to her situations - three of them which were long term over the course of the friendship. I felt I should have heard more than that.
It is a very dicey situation to find yourself in especially when you don't want to lose any of your friends or feel the resentment. Maybe the first step for you to take is to reevaluate each friendship which is what I did.
Before letting that friendship I had go, I did ask her if there was something bothering her and if so, to tell me (I was sensing some distance from her) and she flipped what should have been an answer back to me with a question. That was one of the things that told me to move on.
I wish I had a better answer for you but, it's mainly because I don't want to say anything that would jeopardize your friendships.
I wish you the best as you continue with your journey of being a 24/7 caregiver!
You can give me an answer. I'm all ears.