I am mom's only child and have no voice legally about her care.How do I get her current POA revoked ASAP!
My mom had some type of CVA on Thanksgiving that left her not mentally sound. The problem is she had a POA back in 2004. Some woman in another state was given that responsibility. When mom got ill, the woman went out of control taking everything of value out of the house by using people that mother has known for ages to help. Mother had a day of clarity when I was up in her room crying so upset because I had been kept from her for the first 7 days of mom being in the hospital because of this witch. I told mom what had happened that all of her things were gone. Mom told me that she would take care of it. She will be 90 this year. How on earth she was able to get ahold of another person & her attorney and have a new POA made up getting rid of the woman who had POA to begin with is beyond me! Now, supposedly the new person has POA, HIPAA and medical POA. I am livid! I am the ONLY child and ONLY RELATIVE. (minus her sister who is almost as old is she is that lives in another state.) My husband and I along with my attorney were stalemated the entire time by everyone involved with the original person who had POA. NO ONE was allowed to see the paperwork. Including me. I am beyond hurt and very ticked off! What I need is to get a copy of the old POA as I am starting a suit against everyone that took this woman's word she had POA, hospital, nurses, docs, and the security guard who kept escorting me out. I was kept out of my mother's house despite being called by the alarm company one night because that woman told the cops that showed up she had POA. We tried getting a look at the paperwork then but the cops would not help. Now, I am back to being old nothing about mother until after the fact. I.E. where she was placed at for the nursing home, the extended facility she was moved to prior, etc. I am back to I am on a need to know basis about my mother and I do not need to know apparently. No one has taken into count how I feel about this. I have been the one taking care of her on and off for years. When she needed it. I am absolutely livid that I have no voice about her care, etc. I have the paperwork for conservatorship, guardianship. Her attorney today, refused to give up the old copy and told us to get a court order. That no one has to show POA unless doing business even if we are contesting it. Is this right? Tomorrow we are headed to see JAG (husband is in the military) before his doctor's appointment. Is there anything we should know when we go to talk to JAG? We cannot afford a private attorney at all. And got our paperwork from legal aid in the county she resides in. How is it all of these people were able to get away with taking that woman's word for it that she had POA and did what she told them to do? Because from my perspective, how would you like it if I walked into your mother's life and said I have POA over her and her assets and you who took care of her has no voice legally about what I did with her and her things? Especially if you are the only child/relative and only heir?
This situation is remarkable. My blood is boiling just reading it and I will be praying that you can get this resolved.
WAS there any time Mom may have been ticked off enough, or sick enough, to make it easier for her to choose or allow, POA to a non-family member?
IT is helpful to find any documents or affidavits that can support that...especially if she was "frail" or "easily lead", and there were other witnesses of her weaknesses, BEFORE the POA was made out to a non-family member.
IF there were family arguments, such that Mom may have been irritated enough, fragile or not, to give POA to someone else, and there is any data to show that, like old letters? That might support the person who has the POA.
YES, check County records.
POAs, Wills, etc. -supervised/guided by a lawyer in their making-,
USUALLY get notarized and filed and are on record.
Hospital records are a bit different, and need a court order to divulge.
Your lawyer should be able to subpoena records that have been withheld, be they POA's, WIlls, or medical records.
Records Mom wrote in her own handwriting, may only have been kept in a safe place, not filed with County. Handwritten instruments are NOT notarized, and are legal, as long as entire thing is in her handwriting, and that can be proved.
In any case, the person claiming to have POA, MUST produce that POA at certain junctures and events--it cannot only be on the person's "say-so".
Cops checking on Mom's estate, for instance, are supposed to actually SEE a POA, not just take the woman's word for it.
IF they failed to see it, failed to verify it was as described, when presented, they goofed, too. So might the hospital, unless their in-house workers got her to sign papers while in hospital or nursing home.
IF you can move Mom away from the 1st POA,
and she is lucid enough to do it,
you can take her to a lawyer, have NEW POA/Will, etc. made, and signed by Mom, on the spot.
THESE new documents supersede old ones but cannot repair damages / losses from the old ones.
Otherwise, the old ones stand.
IF mom must stay where she is, you need legal help to handle things for you--it's a big job, and can be intimidating.
Personal experience:
When Gma was old, frail & vulnerable, related to illnesses, her brother in law, dying of cancer himself, took her by the hand to a new lawyer he chose, & led her verbally into making a new will, which favored him & her sister--the sister denied she was interested in it, to both Gma & other family members.
Gma had made her will exactly as she wanted it, while perfectly sane & lucid.
Others knew how it was arranged, & were happy with it.
Except that brother in law, who was angry he'd not been left the whole thing.
The brother in law got it changed; the changes were NOT what Gma wanted, but was easily coerced/conned into making at that time.
She was barely capable of signing her name, & certainly didn't understand the changes that were made,
BUT, no Doc, at that time, had noted in her chart that she was not able to sign legal papers anymore....
While we knew Gma was "fragile",
Dad [only child] refused to do anything about it [not that he could have], believing things would work out OK, and "not wanting to appear greedy"--but then, he was also by that time, not exactly as sharp-minded as he should have been....yeah, we were all kinda dumb-founded!
He could have done the same thing the brother in law had done, but, he didn't want to lower himself to that level. He had no idea the mess it would be when she died.
The new arrangement also made that crooked lawyer her Executor, & gave POA to the brother in law.
When the crooked lawyer died, he'd left all the "plum" estates he'd set up, not only for Gma, but others, to his lawyer son, who'd helped him in his business.
Family members, even far cousins, were furious at this one member....but none could find any way to do anything....
Because: the crooked lawyer had built in a diabolically tight rule:
==If any family member even hinted at contesting the will or the POA,
the entire estate would immediately be turned over to the Boy Scouts of America.
[[while Gma didn't hate that group, it was definitely not on her list of places to donate to in life, nor would she ever have given any of her hard-earned estate to them--they were not mentioned in her original will, nor had she given to them during her life]]
The new will called for liquidation of her considerable assets [against her original wishes], and gave a large portion to the brother in law and sister.
It meant the house & contents failed to stay in the family: she'd specifically wanted Dad to have all that, & the lion's share of her accounts, and she had arranged for her 3 grandchildren to inherit a tidy sum each]
The ONLY part left intact, ONLY because it had already been done, was the transfer of her lucrative business to her long-time co-workers [which really ticked off the brother in law, but we were all thrilled had been done!].
It allowed a small monthly stipend to Dad and his wife while Dad lived,
but after Dad died, specified a bit larger monthly stipend to Dad's wife alone [we never could figure this out],
--with a limiting cut-off date.
It gave a token $1000 check to each of 3 grandchildren---again, not what Gma had wanted.
It took around 20 years for Dad's wife to finally catch-out the crooked lawyer & his son [also a lawyer], who took over all his carefully arranged "plum" estates:
they had perpetually resisted filing proper tax papers.
She reported them to the CA State Bar Assoc.,
filed complaints based on the "improper paperwork".
THAT was their partial undoing.
By that time, though, the original crooked lawyer, the brother in law, and the sister, had all died.
Dad's wife FINALLY got control of the estate, unable to change it to get anything more, but at least to be the Executor.
AS Executor, she was able to get paid a little bit, for managing the estate.
The crooked lawyer's crooked son, lost control of at least Gma's estate, and likely others--I do not know if he lost his license, but we all sure hoped so!!!
Sorry--long story to get to point:
Your Mom may have been being more "easily lead", for longer than you realize.
Someone may have managed to convince her to give them POA because it was locally convenient, perhaps, OR took advantage of Mom's temper in a moment of her verbalizing how she was angry at her kid, & may have taken her to do a POA in that very moment
[yes, people ARE that crooked!].
Once done, ANYthing can happen to the estate.
You need good legal help.
I sure hope you find someone who can fix this mess.
You may never see recompense for lost portions of her estate, though.
But, it might be possible to make sure that person never does this to others.
Keep us posted!
Maybe we could have done something about Gma's estate using that.
I dunno, though...that codicil stipulating that anyone contesting her will results in the whole thing going to the Boy Scouts, was pretty tightly wound.
As far as I know, only a Doctor can determine if a person is legally unable to sign legal paperwork.
BUT, Area Agency on Aging, DOES have lawyers who donate time to help elders with legal matters--it that something they really can do?
Wish I'd know that long ago!
Thanks!
Call the tv stations and newspapers in your area. They may have some helpful ideas or resources for you too. Raise hell!! The more people who know about this situation and what has and is going on the better. Your situation may spark a reporter to do an investigative report as most people are unclear about the power of a POA and its uses and abuses. If something fraudulent has gone on thieves don't like anyone looking into the matter. Call your U.S. Senator too as they have staff to handle constituent problems. Sometimes a letter from a U.S. Senator rattles someone's cage and things "suddenly" change.
Was the 2nd POA appointed by court?
Kinda sounded like it.
When that's done, it's fairly common to block any and all others from doing anything with or to the estate in question.
Once a court-appointed POA is in place, they will handle everything.
That the 2nd one got some stuff put back in Mom's house, is evidence of that, maybe.
Questions:
What do you really, really want?
==Restitution?
What does that look like to you?
Would it heal or change the past?
==Retribution?
What would that really get you?
Would it heal or change the past?
==A different life?
What might that have looked like?
Could you start doing any of that now, as an adult who knows better?
==How much of what you really want from this, is realistically achievable,
without doing yourself further harm??
I agree---and with compassionate understanding, how a person can get slammed very off-balance, emotionally, related to what you describe.
No one can "deck us" as painfully as our parents/family!!!
You WILL need to be able to state your case calmly to a lawyer,
==without expressing emotion==.
As Joe Friday used to say on one of those ancient cop shows:
"Just the Facts, Ma'am!!"
It is helpful for you to write down what the facts currently are, as "one-liners", like a shopping list.
Putting it on paper, really helps see it clearer.
It is important to consider a few things, often forgotten
[which we all go through, too]:
==Our parents did as they knew how, at the time they had to deal with things.
==They were hobbled by past experiences and limited knowledge.
==They accumulated their estates, most on their own, and have no obligation to gift any of it to their kids....[unfortunately for us].
==Their stuff was never our stuff [things]:
if they choose to gift anything to us, great; if not,
we are left having to reconcile with that concept,
and carry on--carrying that hurt just makes it worse.
==Their stuff was not our stuff [behaviors]--relative to the emotionally delivered garbage--either.
Cues in your posts make it seem as though one or more of your parent persons, had some emotional and/or mental issues.
Those make things even tougher.
When you sit quietly, and consider what is on your plate with this,
You must careful to look for various perspectives, considering the above.
A lawyer will have a hard time helping you, if you are fuming mad, and/or if there's inadequate evidence supporting your case to get access or restitution.
Bottom lines include,
==parent[s] are only ever required to feed, clothe, shelter, get us necessary medical care, and basic education, to get us to adulthood and able to be out on our own.
The sad part is, so many do it in painful ways on so many levels--but that was all they knew how to do at the time.
They are not gonna suddenly change and be the parents we yearned for, EVER.
It's all Lessons!
MANY adult children have simply had to "let it go", and bless their parents on their way.
"I wish you well" is a great response to many verbals they can dish out, and can be used in many circumstances.
It is positive, neutral, and cannot be misinterpreted.
Highly recommended, a tiny book called "The Four Agreements".
My Mom has had Bipolar and Dissociative Disorder behaviors all her life, and was impaired by having been abused in childhood--It affected almost everything she did for us and to us.
My Dad was an only child, who was sent off to boarding school by busy parents, not really nurtured by them so much--yet he was pretty good at nurturing, and wonderful at hugging--but he couldn't make up for Mom, nor could he prevent his 2nd wife behaving snipishly.
My Stepmom , also an only child, had, as far as I know, a decent childhood, but a very stiff view of how things should be..
Parent-0persons and Grandparent persons were known for pointing fingers, assuming, blaming, and acting upon things they had inadequate information about.
Among them, each thought I was being taken care of by the other, etc. etc.
Some thot that because they'd given an extra amount to help pay for a self-help boarding school in childhood [which got me away from all their homes], that they need not give anything else.
One parent believes she has "given so much" to me, but that only meant she'd paid back a sum of money I'd sent her for years, supporting her, and given a few gifts which she later took back.
Did they do things or tell me things to help me feel like part of any of their households? Not so much.
Did all their behaviors affect my choices?
You bet--for instance, I eloped, rather than risk having all of them in one room at a wedding for me, and, felt if I had a wedding, it meant less or no money for my next sister's wedding.
I have spent this life keeping my distance from them, largely because it helps protect myself from their behaviors.
I could have chosen to keep closer to them, but at what cost?
Was I willing to pay that price, or was the price greater than any rewards?
Do they still run their mouths and act out? YES they do!
Mom more recently lived under our roof 6 years, and it was increasing hell the whole time. I literally felt I was about to die, if she had not moved out when she did--I couldn't have managed one more day.
Only you can choose to help yourself, in how you perceive their behaviors, and how you feel about how they behave, and what you chose.
Assess the risk: benefit ratio to see if what you seek, is worth the price paid to get it--"price" includes emotional and physical trauma, dollars spent, friction, etc.--all costs involved.
Feeling deeply hurt and angry at her words and choices, means you are "reacting without thinking"--a kind of "knee-jerk" reaction, which lets her know she is still in control on some levels--a great boon for how she feels, but very hard on you!
==Learning to think first, seeing her words and actions in a different perspective, helps you put at least a mental distance between what she's saying/doing,
and your feelings, which can help prevent your feeling so hurt and angry at her words/actions.
It sounds like she's done it for a lifetime--that's about her, not you.
You can refuse to take on her baggage, and refuse to allow her to jerk you about emotionally.
YEah, it might mean walking away from some things,
but, then, what price have you been paying, thinking you can change her, change anyone else, or get any of the parent-persons to be what they cannot be?
You've probly heard that saying: "Don't take it personally"?
That is real important.
When an elder [or anyone] does rotten things, it's not about you, it is about themselves.
It's complicated, but that's a nugget of it.
Since this emotional roller coaster has been going on for many years,
I highly recommend Counseling by a licensed Counselor,
maybe one who can help you with things like EMDR, Cognitive Therapy, etc.
Getting professional help to sort things out, and learn how to heal your life, is a huge help.
IF you do not seem to make progress with one, find another.
If you have financial hardship, ask if you can have a reduced rate, make a trade, or do sessions as you are able.
You can try this below, for free:
Get out paper and pen, or use the computer to write a document.
Start writing all your memories/feelings episodes from when you were ages 0 to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30, etc.
It might not be exactly dated right--memories and feelings often do not link to dates, they might link to a grade in school, or a year, etc.
As you write things down, it will lead to other memories.
It is about you.
It's your life story [a synopsis], from your perspective.
Once done, there are other things you can do, ==but this is a start.
Once written, you can go over it, and might remember more things to insert,
or, when you read what's written, you might suddenly see other perspectives/how to see things.
Be your own best observer.
It is also a great document to share with a Counselor, to possibly move faster at sorting out your feelings when in sessions.
If you are still military, or if retired, or a spouse of a retired military,
VA medical has counseling, and some areas are blessed with very good counseling--the VA CBOC in Chehalis, WA, for instance, is really good.
They not only have support groups and individual counseling for vets,
but also support groups for spouses
[yeah, the starting diagnosis is PTSD, but it also umbrellas other related issues after getting into groups].
It's been a Godsend for us....it's only taken over 40 years to find it, and that the rules and resources improved!
Better late than never!
The 1st POA sounds to have committed some major criminal activity--but has to be caught at it, or otherwise prosecuted.
It sounds like it's all in the hands of the 2nd POA now.
While the JAG office may tell you they cannot help, they might--it takes getting in contact with the right person, one who has more knowledge of what's available to help you....and yeah, it kinda is in the lap of Elder Care advocates.
Things WILL work out.
The waiting and struggling is the hardest part.
Allow yourself some space to heal, and put things in different perspectives, and be persistent looking for helps you need to handle this.
Love yourself, be kind to you, because those who should have, couldn't.
{{hugs!}}
Chi
Army - this is interesting for me as my mom is in a NH with a huge military group. (She is not military but my dad was Air force civilian GS-15/17 back from the 1950' - 1960's & in speaking with other NH residents family members quite a few have non-family as POA because of the uncertainty of military moves.) JAG should be able to give you a list of civilian attorneys for you to contact to start the paperwork for being your mom's conservator or guardian. At this point, probably filing for conservator is your best option to trump the old POA's. What will likely happen when do you the petition to the court, is that the probate judge (where these are usually heard) will usually place the person (mom) as a temporary ward of the state. A court appointed guardian will be named and they are bonded, etc and do this all the time and understand the legal process. Now the temporary is maybe 3 -4 months in which both you and the old POA have to submit information to the court along with the temporary guardian and then the judge makes a determination. It is critically important that you respond to whatever in a timely manner (I'd mail whatever via USPO with return registered card), show up for court docket, etc. My guess is that the POA won't and this will be in your favor.
It is time consuming but really it will solve the problem, case closed.
They also took my wedding set and other heirlooms (for safe keeping) while I was in surgery and treatments.
I did ask for my money back almost 3 years ago and they just taunted me?? Now they say they are keeping my wedding rings and other belongings?
At present I am broke! (Can't buy bread)
It is hard to believe my own son won't give me MY money so I can get my medicine! (TRUST nO-ONE)