My Mom needs a guardian. What are the pros and cons of a state-appointed guardian?

You have heard the cons. The pros are that YOU are protected from further emotional abuse, that you are NOT responsible for her bills or her aggression. Let the state take over, money be dammed.

The appointment of the guardian can be changed. & does happen.

Mom is going to be resistant to whomever does whatever. A court appointed guardian will be able to get past this hurdle faster, simpler & with less dramarama.
Think of this as Phase 1 & let the State deal with it. If part of this is getting mom into a facility & on Medicaid, state is going to get action quicker than you could.

The court will have scheduled hearings regarding moms situation, & you make sure you're there as her family to advocate for her & to be there for the guardian to work with and consider a resource & an ally. Then a year or 3 from now, when mom is in a facility with a treatment plan ongoing, then it's Phase 2 in which you petition the court to become her guardian. By that time the judge knows you, the guardian knows you & facility too and all is good to change guardianship to you.

If you have anything amiss credit-wise or that would be a problem to be bonded, this gives you time to get it cleared up too. Good luck. My goodness a cleaver!

Thanks everyone.

I'm still on the fence with my mother. One person suggested I could even opt for guardianship and then ask the state to take it on if it's too much for me.

If I went to court to get guardianship over my mother I think she would take it as a hostile move. Even if I took care of all her expenses, visited her every day and played yahtzee with her, got a nurse to visit her apartment five days a week and had catered food delivered every day and hired a maid, she would still see me as doing something manipulative or cruel, whether the funds came out of my pocket or hers. If it was hers, it'd be overcharged or there'd be fraud, she'd say, and if I paid for it, every decision I'd make would be wrong, from food choices to the nurse who was hired.

Has anyone ever seen the movie or documentary Grey Gardens? I swear that is what my mother would want of me. For me to just give up on my life and live with her and entertain her, etc.

As for sleeping with a meat cleaver under her pillow, yes, extreme. I even mentioned it to her doctor. I mentioned that it's not normal behavior, to my mom, when she knew better.
For some reason she thought people at that house were out to get her.

She'd once had a feud with a neighbor where she made wild accusations (this was a decade ago, at least) saying the woman shot at her house (no evidence of bullet holes), sold drugs (unconfirmed), that she was a prostitute (again, unconfirmed). But it's been a long saga. She'd call the drug hotline on the woman, making up stories about the drugs and prostitution and shootings. The cops actually called the doctor she had at the time and he in turn called me to alert me of her obsession.

When I told her (without outing her doctor's role) she shouldn't be calling in false reports to the police, that it could backfire on her, she was offended by my advice. She also once fell in her yard and cut her hand or her head on a rock, then went inside, bagged the rock with a ziploc or grocery bag and called the police and said the neighbor's boyfriend attacked her in broad daylight. I told my mom that wasn't right, that it could backfire on her to lie like that, and her take was that she had to do this to protect herself. In fact she thought she was clever for being so dramatic.

This is what I've dealt with for many years. It's all to serve her ends. She's lied about illnesses to get attention, pity or charity. Now her old villains have been cast away -- cutting off contact with the rest of the family, and moving and not being in touch with old neighbors, etc -- so my husband and I are now the supreme villain. She may be afraid of us due to mental illness or dementia, and it has to be scary, but it doesn't help us help her.

For that reason I'm leaning toward a state guardian. I can still be in touch with her and help her out and try to do nice things for her, and frankly I do hope they force her into a home, because there, like others have said, she would get the right medication when she needs it and regular food, etc., and more social interaction. No matter how much she says she hates being around people, she does like attention.

I don't care about the money. I'm independent and don't expect an inheritance to tide me over. I always have worked steadily and worked through and around layoffs and past hardships and I will again if I have to. Between money and peace, peace is more valuable, and again, there's nothing much to be inherited from her. I got my big inheritance already from her in terms of many wild, eccentric, humorous and frustrating stories.

My experience with guardianships is limited to what I observed while working for an elder law attorney who handled them. I admit that it's prejudiced me against appointed guardians.

A neutral third party will be costly. What I saw was that attorneys are appointed, take control and bill at an attorney's rate. That would be appropriate if the client were a corporate or high net worth client.

In one instance, the guardian blocked a long time neighbor friend from access to the client (the elderly woman). Based on what I read, it seemed this was a friendly neighbor who had been checking on the woman, bringing her food, etc. I read nothing to indicate that this neighbor was a predator or of bad repute. Yet she was denied access.

If the guardian is given access to your mother's funds to pay bills, expect that to be done for a fee as well. Nothing is going to be free, and the costs grow quite quickly. Attorneys bill for everything they do. That's standard in law when the rates are hourly plus charges incurred.

It doesn't sound though as if it would be a good move for you. I think a big question would be whether or not the social worker and others with whom you've spoken intend to keep her in her home or place her in a facility, and if your mother has the funds for that. If not, it would I think be the guardian's responsibility to file for Medicaid and address those issues, which might be easier for an attorney guardian to handle than for you, given your mother's lack of cooperation.

And that's another issue if you are appointed - how will you be able to get her to cooperate so that you can carry out your responsibilities?

Unfortunately, it's kind of a "six of one, half a dozen of the other" situation - there are pros and cons to both.

I would check online for a brochure that explains the Guardianship process in your state. I know NC has one. One factor to consider is that you may have to be bonded to serve as guardian. If you have credit issues, that can be an obstacle. Also, most states require that the fees be approved by the court and that they not exceed a certain percentage of the receipts and expenditures. In NC, it's 5%.

Also, you have to file inventory and annual accoutings with the clerk of court. You have to be very meticulous in everything you spend, keep receipts, follow the rules, and balance the guardian estate account to the penny, etc. I have seen people who do it and it's highly stressful.

I am POA for a dementia patient and it's very time consuming and always on your mind. I would not wish it on someone, especially if the subject is resisting. Only you can make the decision though. You might ask if you try it and it doesn't work out, can you then return to court and ask that the court appoint someone else.

Heidi, as you're realizing, dementia and mental illness are game changers. I don't see any way for you to be your mom's guardian without it destroying your soul. You will second guess every decision you make because on some level, you have to be trying to get some validation or love out of her.

Back off. Let the state appoint a guardian. It's time for her to be managed with dispassion. It's one thing to step in and help someone who wants your help. Another thing entirely when your help is neither wanted nor appreciated. Just don't expect any money to be left in her estate. Guardians have only one goal in mind -- in this case, taking care of your mom.

Did the county social worker say anything about a determination of whether or not your mom could remain in her home? It sounds as if it is very likely that your mom will be found incompetent, which is why she'd need a guardian, and that ruling might make it difficult for her to remain in her home without 24/7 supervision. If she lives alone, she will either have to pay for in home care set up by the guardian or potentially be removed from her home under the direction of her guardian and placed into a nursing home - if the county doesn't decide she's in danger by herself and take some sort of action. We hate to suggest this, but it sounds as if it is too much work to care for your mom at home, especially since she's so difficult. It's hard to see any non-family member guardian agreeing to her staying there without a significant source of funds to pay for 24/7 in home care and the rationalization of the accounting required for the annual reports to the county. She will likely be found to have significant mental deficiencies requiring 24/7 care and the place that's more often done, especially under Medicaid assuming that's at some point necessary in her case, is a NH. Medicaid doesn't pay enough to provide 24/7 care in home.

Fortunately for you, the county is driving the guardianship proceeding, not you. Suddenly, your mom will have doctor visits to establish her mental competency. A strange attorney will likely contact her as her appointed advocate and do his or her own evaluation. All this may seem scary to her. That gives you an angle to come in as a hero as well as blame them for what's happening to her as a means of leverage.

We hated to do this with our LO, but in our case there was outright violence, not just drama, crazy accusations, etc. We were there providing care, and got kicked out. With a dementia patient who could bare find and pour a glass of milk without care for the night, we called 911. The response was amazing. Two police cars and an ambulance were there in minutes. The first responders knew right what to do -- quite frankly, they were better than most of the LPNs and aids at the NH. Our LO was taken to the hospital and has not come home since. After a hospital stay to try to manage the violent behavior, on to rehab for 100 on Medicare and we're working on permanent placement. After our LO was out of the house was the point we sought and obtained guardianship. At that point, accounting is very easy seeing as everything either went to the shut down of the house, spend down on our LO's behalf, or the NH. Now it all goes to the NH.

It would be a different story if we were providing guardianship oversight while trying to manage care ourselves in our LO's house or our own home. But, like you, it is impossible to have our LO with us.

Now is the time to become her guardian if you want it. It will cost you money to obtain guardianship if you do not have control of your mother's accounts and can spend them toward guardianship and having yourself named. But it will probably cost less now than later. With the government filing the complaint, you will have to answer to the court, through either your own or her appointed attorney, what your feelings are toward being a guardian. We were told we'd need a lawyer if this scenario played out in which the county initiated the proceedings in order to pursue guardianship, but much of the filing is done by others so it might be lower cost. If you decide against it and get second thoughts later, and decide to try to seek to be named guardian instead of whomever is first named by the courts, you will likely have to overcome any argument you made for not being named in the first place and you'll bear probably all of the cost. Or, this might be the better option for you considering your mom's behaviors....let the county take the heat and you come in as the rescuer..."but Mom, there's no place for you to go but here. They just won't let me take you out of this NH. So sorry, I don't like it either..."

So, if the county will be the bad guy and get your mom into care somewhere, it certainly gives you the option to take on the responsibility of providing loving guardianship without having to provide care or even deal with her often if it comes to that.

Remember, guardians make decisions and manage care but don't have to provide the care themselves.

Again, we'll pray for the right decision and best outcome.

Heidi73: Sleeping with a gun and a meat cleaver IS NOT AT ALL NORMAL BEHAVIOR. Sounds like she needs to be in psych ward.

GardenArtist: A woman that is this ill should, in no way, have weapons by her! No, no, no!