Power of Attorney is being ignored by healthcare professionals. What do I do?

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Power of Attorney is being ignored by healthcare professionals. What do I do?

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I have a durable power of attorney for my mother. She fell and broke her hip and the surgery went wrong and her hip keeps coming out of socket. She spent 2 months in the hospital and they tried putting her in a nursing home. I contacted the patient advocate and got her discharged home and in home care set up for her. She had to go to the ER due to her hip disjointing for the 5th time(once at home 4 times while in hospital). The ER doctor said my POA was no good. I had to argue with him as it is legal and notorized. They admitted her, drugged her and then would not allow me to talk to her and would not give me any information about her. After 3 days I was finally told she was going into surgery 1 hr before it was to happen. I said no as she is on blood thinners for a clot in her calf. They finally listened and discharged her after a closed reduction. Her primary sent her to a specialist. However, now I am having problems with anyone communicating with me. They continually call my Mom who tells them to speak to her daughter, but instead they go around me and don't include me or notify me. I just found out there is a phone meeting scheduled between my mom, a care taker agency and the social worker. I emailed them both, left voicemails, no one is responding. My Mom has repeatedly requested they talk to me directly and she has signed releases of information and they have all been provided a copy of the POA. What do I do to get them to comply? I am frustrated and exhausted. Any advice is welcomed. Thank you

Durable POA Elder Law Power of Attorney (POA)

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So, I am dealing with the same thing. In my case, she has been verified with "moderate" dementia. After a horrifying scare with the ER and a hospital stay, she was put in an Acute Rehabilitation center to recover from "Coding" twice, manual CPR, and multiple 200 joule "hits".

IN the rehabilitation center, someone "coached" her into proceeding with a surgical appointment and scheduling a high risk procedure. High risk being her frailty and age, recovering from have manual CPR for 40 minutes. I have MPoA and GPoA, awaiting a court date for Guardianship.

When I confronted the facility why this high risk procedure was scheduled after I rescheduled the appointment (we spoke to the surgeon in the ICU and he said it was prudent to wait until she is healed), they responded "Your mother requested it." When I responded, "My mother doesn't even know what day it is, and you're claiming she requested a THORASCIC specialist and scheduled surgery? Here, let me give you another courtesy copy of my MPoA and let's talk again. The FAMILY wishes her to be CLEARED by her PCP BEFORE undergoing this HIGH RISK surgery."

Now, I have the same problem. We made an INFORMED decision for a partially incapacitated person, FOR HER SAFETY, and SOMEONE in the rehabilitation facility "coached" her into saying the right words to get the appointment rescheduled. I re-asserted the MPoA diplomatically, after discussing it with the other family members, and everyone seems to be complying.

What do I do if I get another phone call saying "Your mom just got out of surgery."? I feel we have done everything by the book, by the wording of the PoA.

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Reply to Desertengineer

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Hi, Desertengineer:

You currently are commenting on an old post from last July.
My fear is that others are not going to see your question to us.
If you are able to do a quick copy/paste of this into a NEW QUESTION slot, I know you will bet a much faster and better response.

I think all the problem and confusion here could be the lack of a GOOD SOLID diagnostic neuro exam. This would enforce your general POA, or guardianship if you choose to pursue it. I think otherwise you should attend a meeting with your mother's GP, managing doctor in which both YOU AND SHE attend, and that your mother may want to have a legal letter inserted into her chart, scanned into her hospital and other records that it is her wish to have no surgery until her MPOA and GPOA discuss with doctor. This may suffice until you get the diagnosis that Mom is not longer able to sign for her own surgeries. That's what's missing here......that diagnosis of dementia and inability to sign for surgical procedures due to a lack of capacity to understand said procedure.

You are right to be very anxious with all this happening.
I surely do wish you good luck, and hope you aren't called to a hospital to be told your mother is in recovery after a surgery.

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So, I am dealing with the same thing. In my case, she has been verified with "moderate" dementia. After a horrifying scare with the ER and a hospital stay, she was put in an Acute Rehabilitation center to recover from "Coding" twice, manual CPR, and multiple 200 joule "hits".

IN the rehabilitation center, someone "coached" her into proceeding with a surgical appointment and scheduling a high risk procedure. High risk being her frailty and age, recovering from have manual CPR for 40 minutes. I have MPoA and GPoA, awaiting a court date for Guardianship.

When I confronted the facility why this high risk procedure was scheduled after I rescheduled the appointment (we spoke to the surgeon in the ICU and he said it was prudent to wait until she is healed), they responded "Your mother requested it." When I responded, "My mother doesn't even know what day it is, and you're claiming she requested a THORASCIC specialist and scheduled surgery? Here, let me give you another courtesy copy of my MPoA and let's talk again. The FAMILY wishes her to be CLEARED by her PCP BEFORE undergoing this HIGH RISK surgery."

Now, I have the same problem. We made an INFORMED decision for a partially incapacitated person, FOR HER SAFETY, and SOMEONE in the rehabilitation facility "coached" her into saying the right words to get the appointment rescheduled. I re-asserted the MPoA diplomatically, after discussing it with the other family members, and everyone seems to be complying.

What do I do if I get another phone call saying "Your mom just got out of surgery."? I feel we have done everything by the book, by the wording of the PoA.

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Reply to Desertengineer

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Medical and/or Financial POA authority only kicks in if the person who designated you as POA is not mentally capable of understanding and making sound decisions concerning their medical care or finances. Your mother can certainly tell the doctors that she wants you involved and she can also delegate her decision making authority to you if you are designated as her POA. It is her decision until or unless she designates otherwise or can’t act for herself. She is also absolutely entitled to have you participate in meetings, discussions and decisions. The medical providers MUST respect that and they know it. Don’t let yourself or your mother be bullied - but do listen and show them respect for their expertise. Information and collaboration is always a better approach.

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Reply to jemfleming

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My Dad was on a blood thinner. Before jis surgeries hevhad to be taken off for a certain number of days so the blood would clot.

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Reply to JoAnn29

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Being on a blood thinner does NOT exclude someone from surgery in every case. It depends. Clearly, if she's been in the hospital, and they've been giving her the Anticoagulant, they KNOW she's on it and made the proper adjustments they needed to make to prevent bleeding. Power of Attorney does NOT automatically give you Healthcare Decision making power, UNLESS the POA document clearly states that. If the medical staff feels your mother is of sound enough mind to make her own medical decisions, then even if the POA does give you Medical decision authority, it doesn't kick in until Mom CAN'T make her own decisions. It doesn't kick in just because Mom is in the hospital. Or in AL, or LTC. Her doctors are aware of this and I would be willing to bet my hat, THIS is what is going on. Your authority as POA doesn't become active until your Mom is NOT capable of making her own decisions. I would venture a guess that the doctors are probably more versed and experienced at what signs to look for to determine of a patient is capable of making their own decisions or not, than you are.

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Reply to mommabeans

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I completely agree.
However, that doesn't account for them not taking the mother's wishes into account, as she didn't want the same surgeon operating on her, which is why she didn't want the surgery.

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Prayers sent.

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Reply to Llamalover47

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Please have them speak to your attorney.

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Reply to Onlychild2024

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1. There are different kinds of POAs - many are just financial. Some have health care provisions. You need to take a look at it.

2. Have your mom appoint you as a Health Care Surrogate.

Here is a link to a blank one for Florida - but it could be fine in your state.
I suggest you look up "Health Care Surrogate form for

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Reply to elisny

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I think the only thing really is to check legal what you can frighten them with to tie the line -
or maybe a legal letter to them
can you change them at all
can your mothers doctor help
They would be mortified if the local papers were updated but then woukd they reduce. Are for your mother
it’s a tough call
can legal
advice send them a scary letter?
they sound disgraceful

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Reply to Jenny10

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See an attorney.
You might be able to hold the MD and medical institution accountable. First you need to clarify what the legal provisions are.

I would immediately report to an Umbudsman and document every communication you have (date, time, who and what). You need to have a tracking record.

Gena / Touch Matters

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Reply to TouchMatters

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You make sure that you are present as in sitting right next to your mother for that phone meeting with the social worker and whatever homecare agency someone who does not have her POA has chosen for her. Then you tell these people no way. YOU The POA choose what homecare agency is going to be used or if you want to hire a private caregiver for her. Then you make sure these people know it.

Next, I'd reach out to her primary doctor and tell them what's going on. If her hip replacement is done wrong (and it happens and there was a class-action lawsuit against the manufacturer's of one type of hip joint) take her to a different othopedic doctor.

Rehabs, hospitals, and nursing homes often overstep themselves whe it comes to patient decisions especially when it's with old people. Many times there's cash incentives offered to medical practices, social workers, and care facilities if a person gets sent to them or uses their service.

If your mother has you as her POA and tells everyone to deal with you, your POA is law. So you remember that when dealing with these people.

Also, if you're going to get homecare services for your mother and want to use an agency, use one that is indepedently and not coporate-owned. You pick, not them.

Do what everyone on this thread is saying about changing your mother's contact information. This way everyone deal with you as they should.

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Reply to BurntCaregiver

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Have you considered consulting an attorney who specializes in medical issues like this? This entire situation just sounds really wrong on so many levels, especially the pain and suffering your mom has endured.

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Reply to datanp97

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I am my mother's Proxy. All providers communicate with me directly Her provider provided the Proxy form and the completed form is in her medical records.

How is the durable POA not valid? Does your mother have capacity to make decisions? My mom has dementia, is incapable of making important decisions and I am authorized to make them per her durable healthcare POA. The POA is properly notarized. Her providers recognize her POA.

I am also her point of contact, for all matters. My phone number and address is her address of record

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Reply to Naimka

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You have to use language that they understand. Explain calmly that if they want to get paid, you are the only one that can pay the bill. And the only one that can hire them. Unless you approve they are giving free services.

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Reply to Deanes

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My mother had to have her POAs recorded at the local courthouse, and they each have a stamp on the upper right hand corner with the date and time. They are now accessible online through the courthouse website. There is a small fee for recording, but they cannot say I don't have an "OFFICIAL" copy, meaning I could have forged one in front of a dirty notary. She took a copy from her attorney to the courthouse herself to record it.

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Reply to cynthiaturner37

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My state has certification also. It is too bad that our attorney across state lines did not advise us correctly but all we have to do is bring them to local probate ourselvrs

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So, how did the meeting go?

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Reply to JoAnn29

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I suggest, with your mom’s permission, removing her phone number and email address (even billing address) and change them to yours. I’m sorry folks have implied that you may be to blame for the hospital’s errors.
This type of thing happens all of the time. My adult son listed me as his emergency contact, so I was getting all of his appointment reminders and doctors’ communication for six months before they finally (🤞) corrected it.

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Reply to MissesJ

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I agree with changing the contact information. Any important calls or emails for my mother come to me. My mother doesn’t answer the phone if she doesn’t know the person so important calls were being missed, especially since she never listens to email either. Various places learned pretty fast that calling or emailing me worked better. For appointments her caregivers take her to or any phone meetings i have my mother trained to add me in to the conference call.

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Talk to them with your attorney present. Then send them his bill

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Reply to Sample

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Sample, it all depends on the paperwork her mother had signed when entering the hospital. If her Mom hadn't put the OP's name on the HIPAA form, there is nothing an Attorney can do.

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Wow..I am in Virginia and my moms durable POA and medical POA which was notarized has been respected in both local hospitals…and all financial situations.

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Reply to Sadinroanokeva

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ML4038, when your Mom went into the hospital she had to sign a HIPAA form where she writes down who can have access to her medical information. I am wondering if your Mom didn't put your name on the form. Without your name on that form, the hospital has a right not to communicate with you.

HIPAA means The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996. Which has to do with privacy.

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Reply to freqflyer

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its the Medical power of attorney form, and/or POLST and similar that really has weight here right? not the financial POA?

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Reply to strugglinson

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I have a durable Healthcare POA. All Hippa forms and releases have been signed. I have a meeting with the hospitals patient advocate today and hopefully things get resolved.

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Every hospital has an ethics committee. Request to speak to their administrator

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Reply to MACinCT

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Great knowledge to have and remember! Thank you!

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Is your Mom competent to make her own decisions? If so, then no need to talk to you.

Is your POA just financial? Do you have a Medical POA? As said, the POAs are two different things. How does your financial read? Immediate or you need a doctor or two to declair Mom is not able to make informed decisions?

To talk to Moms doctors, that takes a Medical POA. Usually for those to be invoked a doctor has to declair Mom incompetent. Seems these doctors feel Mom is competent and there is no need to talk to you. Just make sure your on her Hipaa forms.

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Reply to JoAnn29

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I have a durable Healthcare POA. I am on her HIPPA forms as well. She has also asked them to speak to me directly. She has made this request. It took asking to speak to the hospital administrator to have them comply. I have an appointment with the patient advocate today.

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You tell us that your legally done POA is being ignored, and that the medical team is in fact telling you that it is not a legal POA.
Have they told you exactly WHAT about your legally done POA is not valid?
I honestly have never heard of such a thing.
Also, it is important for us to know if your mother is incompetent, as your POA doesn't pertain to a person who is competent to make her own decisions WHILE she is competent to make them.

I am sorry you and your mother is going through this. It is illegal in most states for a valid POA to be denied when a senior is incompetent in his/her own decisions. I think you need to see an attorney at once for a "lawyer letter" and a letter testamentary regarding your right to make all final legal medical decisions (again, only if your mother is legally incompetent in her own decision making).

Good luck. I hope you will update us.

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Reply to AlvaDeer

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I didn't and don't understand it myself. I asked to speak to the hospital administrator and things have improved. Mom and I have an appointment with the patient advocate today.

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This strikes me as strange. Did they ever explain why they wouldn’t honor the POA? There are two circumstances where I could imagine a power of attorney would not apply and I wonder if either of these is the case?

1-the “durable POA” mentioned above is not a healthcare POA. It’s the other kind, a “financial/general” POA. Unlikely but just have to check on this..

2-healthcare POA / healthcare proxies are pretty standard between states, and as far as I know all of them are only active during those times the principal (your mom m) lacks the power to make decisions. So even if you have a POA document, it’s not active if she has capacity to decide herself.

None of this means you shouldn’t be in the loop, etc., but I wonder if this is the case. Does your mom have her own decision making capacity? in that case, the POA would be considered not active at that moment, which could be interpreted “invalid“ through miscommunication. And would explain why they keep trying to talk to your mom about things instead of you.

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Reply to Rumbletown

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I have a durable Healthcare POA and all HIPPA forms list me. Mom asked them to please communicate with me as she felt unable to make good decisions with all the pain killers making her very loopy. I asked to speak to the hospital administrator and they are now complying. Mom and I have an appointment with the hospital patient advocate today as well.

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Mom can agree for you to become her legal guardian. Sounds like you and Mom are in agreement on her treatment and a guardianship is stronger than a POA.

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Reply to OncehatedDIL

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This is something we are now looking into and considering. Mom is worried that something will be done without her consent or while she is not thinking clearly so she has asked me to consult and communicate for her. It really made no sense to me because all the HIPPPA has listed me for years and the POA is a durable Healthcare. I have never had this problem with her PCP. I did ask to speak to the hospital administrator and they are now complying. We see the patient advocate today.

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Do you have health care proxy. DPOA and health care power of atty /proxy are separate things...

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Reply to casole

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ML, sorry your moms hip surgery didn't go well

But to your question, we are only hearing one side, I'm wondering why they are going above you.

If it was me I'd look at myself and my actions , first and then if I really feel I did nothing to justify this , then go above them.

If I did do something to warrant this, I would ask for a meeting with her doctors, explain that maybe I did this or that, and I understand that it wasn't the right thing to do, but my emotions are on high and I will do better.

Best of luck

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Reply to Anxietynacy

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I haven't done anything to warrant not being allowed to speak to my mother. I am patient, reasonable and cool headed. I was very polite despite the rudeness of their treatment. I asked to speak with the hospital administrator and they are now complying. Mom and I also have an appointment with the patient advocate today.

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It appears that these people find it easier to go around you than interact with you. Can you think of any reason for that? You may need the help of an omsbudman.

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Reply to Fawnby

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The only reason I could think of is because my Mom stated she didn't want the same surgeon operating on her again. It is a small rural hospital and they only have one orthopedic surgeon. They tried to schedule a surgery with him while she was in the ER and she clearly stated she did not want him to operate on her. They scheduled it anyway. I was notified 2 hours before they were to do it after 2 days of them refusing to speak to me or letting me speak to her. I asked to speak to the hospital administrator and they are now complying. They didn't even know she was on blood thinners for a blood clot in her calf and that made zero sense to me as it was all in the documents I brought and gave them and should have been in her chart. They canceled the surgery. She didn't want to make decisions herself because she is on pain killers that make her loopy and cloud her head. She has asked them to please communicate with me and that's why she decided to get the durable POA. Her PCP has now got her scheduled with a specialist at Providence. It's a 250 mile journey but we're doing it. We also have an appointment with the patient advocate at the first hospital. Hoping for the best.

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I do not know how to solve this. This apparent collective stupidity. But I sympathise & used a swear word out loud for you.

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Reply to Beatty

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Thank you for the smile! I had a few inside my head while dealing with it. Was careful not to let them out loud.
I asked to speak with the hospital administrator and they are now complying. Took a few days. We have a meeting scheduled with the patient advocate as well and her PCP has put in a referral for her to be transferred to another hospital with a hip specialist. Hoping for the best.

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Power of Attorney is being ignored by healthcare professionals. What do I do?

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