Offering room with all included isn't part of the payment for care?

Dear carenightmare,

I think all this depends on where you live in the country, the cost of living and the type of care that is required. Yes, its true that a live in caregiver is saving on some expenses, but they are also taking on more care. What is the agreed upon salary? Some people are willing to work for less and others less so. I know its not an easy issue.

Even as a daughter I paid all the bills and cared for my dad. In hindsight, even if I was paid for doing all that I did, I don't know if that makes up for the stress and daily routine of caregiving. Caregivers deserve a living wage even if they are living rent free. And time off too because we all know its not easy being with someone 24/7.

They deserve to have money left in the end of the month for their personal things, I agree. I just don't think 1300, 2000, 5000 left is reasonable (any amount way above minimum wage is a lot for someone who doesn't have any expenses).

Also, there's no restrictions, there's no limit to want they consume. They could take several one-hour showers a day, snack every hour, turn the heat to tropical temperatures all year, make international calls, whatever. And never pay for any of that.
We in turn have to pay for all that while trust her.

What I see is a LOT of people taking advantage of the elderly. Because there's no alternative and they assume they're deaf, crazy and childish, they can charge whatever they like and there's always problems.

My MIL has been conned by her previous caregiver who got paid well to come a few hours a day and in the end took ALL her money; some jewels stolen by another caregiver, not sure if one of the ladies who came through an agency (who completely dismissed the situation: "we never had problems before"); and taken advantage of by a live-in caregiver who only came here for the house, barely worked, was always out, and threaten to punch me, not to mention the caregivers who barely do a thing - I have to clean after them, because they do the minimum or less. I'm not exaggerating.
And the agency charges a LOT by hour, paying miserably to the ladies who do very little and never stay the whole hour. I've also been visiting home care facilities and they charge a LOT for horrible conditions, they provide the minimum service, diapers not included, urine and dirty mop smell all over the place, dirty floors, bad light, small rooms, no activities, all day watching TV.
She has some money and this is what she can afford? I can't imagine what happens to someone with less money.
I'm mad!

They can ask it probably because it's what their job is valued at on the market right now.

I would start figuring out what this job is really worth by asking how many hours per week the employee is expected to be available. Are they expected to be "on call" 24/7? Do they get days off where they can leave the patient/property? Many labour laws require employers to give employees 8 hours off between shifts - is the employee being given this, or are they still "on call?" Just because a worker isn't performing labour while they're sleeping (or doing other personal things), it doesn't mean they aren't working - if they are expected to be available to deal with issues as they arise, then they are working.

Then I would ask what the local minimum wage is and if they were earning at least that for their time. I'd ask if the employee is being paid appropriately for overtime (often, under labour laws, employees working more than 40 hours a week must be compensated with extra wages, say 1.5 - 2 x their hourly rate). I'd ask the same about statutory holidays. I'd wonder who was expected to pay their government contributions, such as unemployment insurance, pension, and worker's compensation. I'd wonder how their taxes were being paid and by whom. (Wages "in kind" are still considered wages - under tax laws the employee would be seen as paying room and board out of their taxable wages.)

The answers to these questions would be very important in determining what their work was worth.

Also, I'd be curious how an employee would pay their other expenses if they were ONLY paid in room and board, and weren't able to take a 2nd job because of their 1st job's requirements. Are their medical expenses paid by the employer? What about toiletries and other personal care needs? Transportation? Clothing? Personal cell phone? Does the employer contribute to their pension fund? What about travel to visit family? Will the employee have to ask for stamps to mail a letter?

Then I'd ask, is the employer still going to charge them for meals they don't eat, or refund that part of their wages to them? What if they don't watch TV or use the internet - will the employer refund that part of their wages? Just because something a perk of the job, it doesn't make it wages. What about water - are you saying access to water should be a part of their wages? That having a heated workplace, or a place of work with electricity, should be considered part of their wages? In what other workplace would that be true? Plus the employer is already providing those things for the patient, so they are not even perks, if they could be considered perks in the first place.

I think it's ok to consider room and board PART of their wage, but certainly not their whole wage. And a lawyer would certainly be able to sue an employer on an employee's behalf if they were only paid in room and board.

Personally, I think 1,300 as an example is a terrible wage, based on wages where I live. Minimum wage here is 11.65, which is just over 2,000 per month at 40 hours per week - not including any overtime or stat holidays. That's a counter clerk at McDonald's, or a retail worker at the Gap. Not somebody doing the stressful job of providing intimate care to my loved one.

Sorry, we must have cross-posted! But again I'd say - don't make the assumption that an employee doesn't have other expenses just because room and board is covered. We all have expenses beyond housing and food. And perks of the job like extra food or showers or heat can't be considered wages. It's up to the employer to set rules around these things.  Also consider how their government contributions are being paid, if the employer isn't paying them. 

If someone is underpaying employees, then yeah, they probably can expect to attract the kind of employee who slacks, steals, or takes advantage.

Violent behaviour should never be tolerated and the police should be called.

Edit:  this is Canadian (as am I), but it gives you an idea of what governments expect from employers of live-in caregivers.  www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/hire-foreign-worker/caregiver-program/after-apply-next-steps

I agree with Dorianne. What's going on with all the taxes that will be owed?

I see from your profile that your loved one that you take care of lives in their own home. Maybe that's not really possible anymore and they need to be in a facility?

I already said that yes, they must have money aside from the house and all house bills paid, for their own stuff. They must have 2 days off, fine, they do have taxes paid, and anything related to MIL is covered: gas, parking, etc. They should have a salary, yes, I said that's fine, but 2x the minimum wage is too much.
Don't tell me that 2000 clean isn't enough to make a pretty nice life. So many people live with way less and work equally hard.
And they all ask 2xMinimum Wage no matter what they offer in return.
If I open my house to a stranger and pay for all their expenses, yes, I do expect something in return. I'm also paying something else for their personal expenses, don't tell me it's not enough or unfair.

It's like people have already pointed out, it depends on the job description. Somebody who is merely a companion or does minor household cleaning and meal prep is totally different than someone who must supervise someone with dementia, help with ADL's, deal with incontinence and be on call 24/7. $10/hour for a 24 hour day is $240 per day. And people who are "on call" DO get paid for that, even if it is just a higher base salary and not per hour.
Bottom line is, if you find someone willing to work for what you are offering, great! If you can't find anyone, or if those you find are leaving you have to rethink your offer or lower your standards... it's called free enterprise, even the most loving, charitable people won't work unless it makes financial sense for them.

I'd say if you can find someone willing to work 24/7 (or anywhere close to that!) for $1300 a month, you're getting a good deal. That's less than $45 per DAY. Assuming that person ONLY "works" a 40 hour week, that's $7.50 an hour, which is less than half of what any agency in my area would charge for the same work. Factor in that the helper's other living expenses are paid, I'd say that sounds about right. HOWEVER, we all know that a live-in caregiver HARDLY works a mere 40 hours a week. As mentioned above, they are on call even when they are sleeping. So, considering a 24 hour work day, you are paying less than $1.80 an hour. Again, if I hired the service we are currently using to stay 'round the clock, I would be paying a MINIMUM of $450 per DAY. You are paying less than 10% the going rate. I'd say that was a bargain!

We currently spend $1800 each month for 10 hours of ADL assistance (per week), 8 hours of housekeeping (per month), and 15 hours of driving/companion services (per week). If I could find someone of quality who was willing to LIVE with my in-laws rent free PLUS $1300 a month and provide ONLY what we are paying for now, they could eat all they wanted and watch cable TV the rest of the time, and we'd STILL come out ahead!! Heck!! I'd even install high speed internet for them!!

Let's break that down.

$1300 a month is about 306 per week. (4.25 weeks in a month). For a live in job. So by day.. $48 per day! That is less than 3 hours of pay per day! Really?

I am amazed you find anyone even willing to consider such a paultry amount. Yeah..throw in the room and board...let's say that is really worth another 1300 per month...that brings the pay up to 98 per day! Anyone here willing to do the job for that much?

The bigger question is why would you insist on being so cheap? And..how is that working for you? Consider the quality you are hiring at that incredibly low wage.

I tell you how it's working for me. One caregiver conned her and stole her, she was paid minimum wage for only a few hours a day just to clean and make some company. She took all her retirement money and was preparing to get more by manipulating her, isolated her from everyone with lots of BS turning everyone against each other, also, MIL had many "unclear" health issues that sent her to the hospital while that caregiver was taking care of her, and now doesn't have any of those "unclear" problems, like dizziness, confusion, vomiting and so on...

Another one stole her jewels, probably one from the agency to who I pay really well per hour. But paying this agency well isn't equal to quality, because they worked part of the time they were hired for, barely clean and jewels disappeared since they came. Them or the live-in we hired later.
All she had to do was to take care of her hygiene, and the medication twice a day, give her breakfast and be around in case she needed something - EVERYTHING ELSE was done by me: taking her to doctors, shopping, cooking, house cleaning.
She had free everything, room with a view, she could take time out in the afternoon just as long as she was available in case, not like an emergency doctor. And I paid her minimum wage, she asked less - under the table, because she told me social security could not know she was working.
I picked her at the station (far) and the same day she needed the day off, to settle in. Ok. Next day, after dinner, she started complaining this was too much, she couldn't do it for any money in the world, because she's also a sick woman. I said Fine, you can leave. All the sudden, she added "it's not enough money", I said Fine, we're willing to pay you the double, but if you can't do it because you're sick, then it's best to leave and I'll find another person. So she changed to "I never said I couldn't do it! Don't twist my words!" and then complained again that she couldn't do it. After 20 minutes yelling, being rude, saying and unsaying, I said: If you can't decide, I decide for you, you leave tomorrow. So she started another rambling speech how I was cold, and mean, and she couldn't pay for the ticket, and she had to borrow money to get here. I said FINE, I'll pay for both tickets and drop you at the station (Far). Oh she started crying she couldn't go back, her family was mean to her, she was living with her sister, and she demanded her to put some bread on the table, because they could no longer afford her being there: "she's a leach". So I said FINE! you stay one month, you can search for a job here so you don't have to go back....you know what she did?

This woman was NEVER around. NEVER. She went for a coffee in the morning, came home to lunch, helped MIL change diapers (she does it alone, just needs to be watched), left for a walk, came home for dinner. Did her hygiene, went to her room, and said "call me when you need to go to bed". She was here to eat and sleep.
Many times, I had to take MIL to doctors or visiting home care facilities, we arrived late for lunch or dinner, and the woman either wasn't at home, meaning I had to help MIL changing, run to the grocery shop, run home to cook for BOTH of them. The woman could not call me while we were out to ask if there was something she could do - a very occasional favor just so we could all eat on time. She went out every morning, she could never bought bread (paid by us, of course), when she ate lots of bread ("I love bread!" she said), she also threw entire meals to the garbage, because she didn't like it, and she had hearth issues when it was time to work, but drank 5 coffees a day and smoked a lot - inside the house even when we said not to, please!!!!
In the end, she left a week before agreed, because she found something back in her town, giving me less than 24h to find someone, and asked me to take her back to the station. First I said ok, then I thought how stupid I was being, I said no, you'll take the bus - she threaten to punch me!
I went to home care facilities they ask  2xMW for a shared room smelling like urine as I said. Her retirement here is a lot, compared to the majority. It's 2x the minimum wage - not many people earn that and yet all she can afford is this? She has house bills to pay, so no it's not going well, but paying fairly or unfairly I get the same result.

If I pay 4000 then she pays for the room, food, and her consumption. Fair enough? Because that's what everyone else does: we work and pay for our house and bills.

Also 1300 was an example. I'm trying to make this post universal. MW is different in every country. So 2xMW+NO EXPENSES+2 days OFF is a lot for just hygiene and being around.

Carenightmare--

You have had an incredibly bad run of help, I'm sorry to say.

I worked Elder Care---it was brutal, exhausting work. I worked through an agency and was paid minimum wage---hardly a living wage--and I worked HARD. $1300 a month to do what I did 24/7?? There is NO WAY I would accept such a paltry sum and consider myself recompensed for what I did. A good caregiver is like a ruby! A bad one, well, you know.

Keep trying to find someone who works well for you. You've seen the bad, but there are good ones out there, trust me. But you're probably going to have to pay more. You feel like they aren't "doing much" but they are THERE and you don't need to be. How much is that worth to you? Just not having to think about whether or not your LO is alone and lonely, or has someone with them 24/7. Really, in many cases, you couldn't conceivably pay ENOUGH for that kind of peace of mind.

At some point, a MW worker NEEDS and DESERVES a raise. The turnover rate at my company was about 80% per year--people just could not get by on MW. We weren't live in--some workers did night shifts, but were paid time and a half. Still not much.

This is not a personal attack but rather my own thoughts on a topic that has bothered me for years.

It never ceases to amaze me what our society is willing to pay for a haircut or a fancy cup of coffee- yet the rate paid to the people giving care to our children and our elderly is crap.

I’m not talking the rate paid to the facilities- I’m talking the typical daycare worker or the typical CNA. Ask one of them what they make per hour.

You'll be better off if you stop focusing on what pay you think they should be happy with and instead focus on what is the competitive rate in your area. When you find an employee willing to work for rock bottom pay, there's usually a reason (absences, theft, unreliable, etc.)

As an employer, I would never look at pay that way for my employees. I always check around with competitors and then tried to pay my employees more so that I could attract the best employees.

"After 20 minutes yelling, being rude, saying and unsaying, I said: If you can't decide, I decide for you, you leave tomorrow. . . . . .So I said FINE! you stay one month, you can search for a job here so you don't have to go back....you know what she did?"

Unfortunately, this person was a master manipulator. THEIR sob stories are not your problem, so don't let them become your problem. I would have told her, "I'm so sorry that your family is so horrible to you. Unfortunately, this isn't working out for us, so TODAY will be your last day." If I feel particularly guilty, I'll throw in some extra money on departure, but NEVER let them stay around if they are causing problems. Their anger will end up biting you in some way (theft, destruction, absence, bad care, etc.)

I don't consider 2x minimum wage too much to pay someone to care for my mother. (I don't have a paid caregiver, but I like to think I value both my mother, and someone caring for her, more than that.) A lot of caregivers are in fact paying all or part of the rent where their families live. And their wages don't just go on basic person expenses. They can be taking courses; supporting children, or there own elderly parents. They are people who don't just stand, turned off, on their days off.

Room and board might be a great perk if you are a single woman with no other home to maintain, but often these women have a husband and/or children they are also sharing expenses with, or they keep a small room elsewhere so they have someplace to go on their days off. And although many women do it, I personally would never want to be totally dependent on my employer for a roof over my head, it just makes you too vulnerable to being taken advantage of because you have no other options.

I'm not a futile person so I don't go to the hairdresser or drink expensive coffees.
I work hard too to have money and pay for my stuff, and I do value people's work, but paying for a house+bills+replacement+at least minimum wage should be good enough for the job - I did it too, I know how hard it is. But it's a MW (whatever the value in each country) to spend in whatever they want. It's not a MW to pay the rent, bills and food, like everyone does out there. It's MW+(Free House+Free meals+free internet+free power+free communications+free heat+free cleaned laundry)+time to spend it = MW+2/3MW (the amount spent by any worker with housing bills and food)

It's not like she has a beeper and needs to stay awaken all night and work 24/7 non-stop.
It's a place to live and yes, keep an eye on things and yes help around. Help. Not slavery.

I see that in this caregiving industry there's a particularity: the lack of alternatives allows anyone to ask for any amount of money they wish to do the job; because many have dementia many steal from them because "they won't know" and if they say something just say they're confused; because many are isolated many con them, and because they surely get money at the end of the month, many think it's ok to take it all, since they didn't work to get it, so again, we can charge them whatever we want, if it's all they have, so be it.

I would never hire a live in who has a family to take care of or another job. That's impossible. By live-in I mean to live in the house and work, not to come to the house. 

And let me tell you about the agency and the fairness and the market: Where I live people ask 7 per hour to do this job, the agency charges me 9,5 and pays them 4!! and they have to pay their own taxes. So let's talk about fairness and competition.
The lady who's coming now through the agency comes early in the morning and late at night. I'm paying the agency for 2 hours a day, but I'm not insensitive, and I don't ask her more than the hygiene at night, so she can leave and go to rest. I know she doesn't deep clean and I'm OK with that. I won't tell the agency she doesn't stay all the hour I'm paying for and I know how unfair these women are treated by the company.

I'm not mean or cheap. I pay. I pay MW a bit more+Their house bills + offer a place to live and time to enjoy their money.
If it makes you cringe when I say I pay but just enough, it makes me cringe when you say "market", "competition", and other corporate language when we're talking about basic needs.

Being old is part of life. And being disabled is part of being old. We ALL will need this care, ALL, like we need food. I bet you don't talk about fairness and market value when they raise the price of bread or any food for amounts you or the majority of the people can't afford, do you? Do you care about the hours the baker spent working? The price of gas for transportation? The price of flower and the work of all the middlemen? No! Food is essential to live and so it can't cost more than we can afford.

Again 1300 is just an example. Instead of thinking 1300 think MWx2, which applies to any country.

Actually, I do. But then I am a futile. person.

carenightmare, I'm trying to figure out why you posted. You have your mind made up. No matter what anyone says you are not budging. That is perfectly acceptable. But, why did you post here?

Being expected to "be around" means the person is working and you have to pay them for that time. It doesn't matter what tasks you expect of them - it's about the availability you expect of them. That is the law. You can be sued for demanding availability and not paying for it.

Another example of people who get paid for being available on site, regardless of whether they are performing tasks or reading romance novels, are nannies and babysitters.

Paying less than minimum wage for the time an employee is expected to be working (including "being around") is illegal and you can be sued for that as well.

And again, you can't just make assumptions that a person has no other expenses, or minimal expenses, just because you are providing food and a place to stay. Those are definitely not the only expenses in my life. It's not your place as an employer to determine what an employee's personal expenses are or should be.

If you are valuing room and board as a percentage of wages, well, my current rent (which includes heat and water) for my 2-bedroom, private apartment (including my own private bathroom and kitchen, as well as control of my own thermostat and A/C), plus my electricity, totals about 45% of my take home pay. This doesn't include my food.  I'm not earning much above minimum wage, either. 

Government policy for expensing housing costs (not including food) as a percentage of income is usually 30%. 

I feel like you also need to separate out your role as a landlord from your role as an employer.

You CANNOT count things like television and internet as part of an employee's wages. They're nice perks, but if they had their own home, they could choose NOT to have those things. For example, I don't have a television, by choice. I could access the internet on my phone and at the public library if I couldn't afford it at home. (Edited to add:  ditto "clean laundry" - I did all my laundry in the kitchen sink for years, when I was too broke to pay the coin washers in my building.)  You are not giving them a choice, but instead, are insisting these perks be counted as part of their wages just because you've made them available. That's illegal and you can be sued for it.

You CANNOT count heat, electricity and water as part of an employee's wages. It's an employer's legal responsibility to provide a safe, non-hazardous working environment above and beyond wages.

Look at it this way: in any other employment situation, those expenses are considered part of the cost of doing business, above and beyond employee wages. In a home, they are part of the cost of running a home, period, regardless of whether one has employees. You wouldn't NOT have heat, electricity and water if you didn't have an employee. You can't just reduce an employee's wage or charge them extra in order to pay for your household expenses. Again, that's illegal and you can be sued for it.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a couple of people. That's not reflective of my experience with caregivers, but there are bad people in every profession, from fry cooks to firefighters. I've worked for minimum wage and I've worked for $25 an hour, and I had just as many terrible or lazy co-workers at the higher wage as I did at the minimum wage. Setting workplace rules, assigning tasks, and disciplining or firing bad workers is the job of management.

Edited to add:  it's also illegal (not to mention pretty unethical) to practice discriminatory hiring practices based on family status (i.e.: marriage, children), and you can be sued for that as well.

Also edited to add:  it doesn't matter if you think your situation as an employer is unique or special or different.  It doesn't make you above the law.  And no, your situation is not unique or special or different. And yup, I care a lot about the people who get paid to make my food - I don't get to demand they make less than what the law requires just because I can't personally afford their bread.  I just eat less bread or I get a second job to buy it.  If you want to change the free market system, then you need to become an activist or a politician, not pay workers less. 

You know, if I'd had bad experiences, I'd want to pay MORE for a better level of care.

IMO managing other people sucks, the stress involved just isn't something that would be worth it to me. The smaller the "business" the more difficult it can be because you can't count on the good employees to cover for the bad ones, being a boss/landlord all rolled into one has to be the ultimate crap-shoot, chances are very low that you will find someone who satisfies all your expectations. Maybe you would be better off to hire several independent caregivers to cover various shifts, that way one may excel in areas where another is lacking and overall you will have a better level of care, as well as back up if one isn't working out... generally an independent worker is happy to get an amount somewhere in between what an agency charges the client and what the agency would pay them, so everybody wins. Unwillingness to place a loved one in a facility and/or an inability to afford 24/7 caregivers is the reason so many on the forum have a loved one living with them, that is another option to consider.

Dorianne:
1) "Paying less than minimum wage for the time an employee is expected to be working (including "being around") is illegal and you can be sued for that as well."
Did I say "less"? No, I said I paid her the MW plus house+bills+time off...I said: asking twice that amount is a lot because it's not including a free house+house expenses

2) About all the expenses and how I can't count them as part of the salary,
Then, it's ok to pay the caregiver twice the minimum wage or more BUT charge for the room, the consumption of electricity, water, food, internet and washing machine use, that way it's "her choice", then, like any other worker in the world, she can use her 50000 to do whatever she wants - which is none of my business, right? Actually, where I live these things can be counted has part of the salary. I can add goods and benefits has part of the salary

2.1) Meallen: "their wages don't just go on basic person expenses. They can be taking courses; supporting children, or their own elderly parents"
That's the same for everyone else in the world - salary, no matter what amount, goes for some or all of that - I call it PERSONAL expenses. The ladies who make 4-taxes when the agency charges me 9,5 do have families to take care of, bills to pay, children or elderly parents to support. Does the agency care? No. So what, it's the market right? The agency has the right to pay them that, after all, it manages their work, right? WRONG. But the agency is bad, I'm bad, the caregiver who asks for 2xMW + all house expenses paid is being fair.

3) I don't want HER to pay for MY household expenses. I pay for mine and hers, but if I pay hers it should count has part of the salary. If a company pays your food and cell phone that counts as Salary. "you make MW plus have credit card and company's cell phone and free food" - would you take it? Sounds more appealing than just MW, because it's a bit more, right?

4) "it's also illegal (not to mention pretty unethical) to practice discriminatory hiring practices based on family status (i.e.: marriage, children), and you can be sued for that as well."
Right, so if she's married and has another job it's her problem, not mine and no one needs to post how I'm mean for not caring for her family needs...It's her choice it's her problem, right? Ok. In that case, I don't care if she has family or any needs. She comes and does the job (lives in my house all day? Fine...)

5) Just because people ask for a certain amount of money and that's the market value, doesn't mean it can't be questioned or that it's reasonable. I can ask for 20 000 000 000 to clean your bathroom, is it normal? Fair? I think 2xMW+Free house expenses is much more than what any other worker with the same amount of work and also family to take care of and bills to pay actually earn. I think asking for twice the MW without counting the fact that they have a free house and free food is not fair. If a regular worker who earns that, in the end of the month has only 1/3 of that, why should they have 3/3 if they both worked the same amount of time and worked just as hard? I don't understand. In that case, all jobs are underpaid, which is true. A salary is a way for us to pay for our bills and have a nice life. The live-in has 2/3 of those bills already paid off.
You say it's fair, I say it's not. MW and house paid+expenses is more than the average salary, since in the end you have it all for yourself (I don't care for what, that's not the point or my business and never said it was for hairdressers and other stuff) .
I question the price of housing, even if the market says being high is fine, I question why a manager should get more money than the guy screwing the screws all day, I question things. I don't just give what people ask without thinking. We've been conned, stolen, taken advantage of and a job not done many times by people who charged well for coming. 2xMW isn't synonym of quality or safety. It's just the market value.

Cwillie: what are ALL my expectations? If I shop, cook for both MIL and CG, clean the house, and all the CG has to do is what the home support does? In fact, right now, that's what I'm doing. If I have to pay MW, then I pay the agency MW, they come in the morning and night and I don't spend more with food, power, water, heat...so that's the value of the live-in I asked for? - just MW, but I paid more so she could be here when I needed to go out to shop. As I said, she could go out, but not as she did: she was ALWAYS out, that's not a live in, that's a never in.

jeannegibbs: I posted it here because I wanted to know your opinion, but I don't think many people are reading before answering or many are very focused on judging.
i.e. a) I never said LESS than MW; b) I said 1300 is an example; c) my question is not if they shouldn't get paid or paid almost nothing, is if house bills shouldn't be taken in consideration when asking for a salary that's twice what the majority of people earn and no one cares if they have families or bills to pay

Few answered specifically to that, some said it depended on the tasks and requirements, but the majority answers to things I didn't say. I get it, the majority thinks it's reasonable and right to pay 2xMW+Consumption bills.

Yes, jjariz. I've learned that lesson. She was waving big red flags and I stupidly fell for it.

cwillie: I'm living with my MIL because we're looking to provide her a good life. I don't have any obligation of doing it, I don't get paid, I have a job, and she was really in bad shape when I met her - she couldn't move at all. I did all by myself. I'm again alone with her, available 24/7. They wanted to pay me and I said I don't need, she pays for everything so it's fine. My salary (that one is LESS than MW and I work in a much lucrative industry) is enough since I don't need to pay for anything. I'm looking for a home care facility that doesn't smell like piss, and where people won't be standing in chairs all freaking day long watching the same freaking stupid tv channel. That's a death calling but for 2xMW that's what she gets -fair? As I said, 2xMW is a lot where I live. Not many people earn that. I want the best for her, though she's not my direct family and she's nasty, we're getting along better now, I know what taking care of a numbed body with a bad attitude is like, I know how better she is now and I know what I'm asking for and I'm still here to do part of the work...so 2xMW for that is actually a lot. It's the double of what I'm paying to get the same result.

But you can't dictate what other people spend their money on or assume what their lives are like. You condensed to give what you thought was a good deal for one of those people, and they didn't agree, you you came here for validation. You bet I'm judging you.

I assume that if your salary is less than MW, you are a server and expected to make up the difference in tips. In that, you have my sympathy. I think it's a rotten system.

FOR GOD'S SAKE! DID I SAY WHERE SHE SHOULD SPEND HER MONEY???
I'M SAYING SHE HAS 2XMW TO SPEND IN WHAT A FREAK SHE WANTS CONTRARY TO THE REST OF THE WORKERS WHO ALSO HAVE TO PAY FOR HOUSEHOLD BILLS!

I'm a journalist working in the broadcast industry

How can they pay you less than MW?

oh, oh...oh my god!
www.sittercity.com/parents/find-child-care/how-much-should-you-pay-your-sitter-or-nanny

"Nanny wages can differ based on a number of factors including: years of experience, education level, and employment status (full-time live in/live out). According to the 2015 INA Nanny Salary & Benefits Survey, the average hourly rate is $18.66 USD per hour.

The average weekly salary for full-time live-out nannies is $705 per week.
The average weekly salary for full-time live-in nannies is $652 per week.

*Average weekly salary based on 2012 INA Survey

Additional considerations, such as whether a nanny is provided employment benefits like paid time off, health insurance, gas money, and cellphones, will influence base wages."

BENEFITS ARE PART OF THE SALARY; LIVE-INS MAKE LESS THAN LIVE OUTS?
Caregivers? Oh no! Different rules! it's whatever the hell they ask for no matter what and damn that who dares to question that!

Oh, Meallen...there's too many competition so they do whatever they want, but I only work some days of the week :)