Starshell Asked September 18, 2024
Need advice for difficult mother.
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My Mother 62-is disabled (Rheumatoid Arthritis) She’s never been on meds (refuses to go to ra Dr) and the last time she was at hospital she was told it’s progressive RA, especially because it’s untreated. The hospital recommended in Jan. for her to go into a facility to be cared for 24 hrs a day, at least until she got her hip replacement. She decided to go back home against their advice and she managed to get home health to come 5 days a week. She wont move closer to me so I could help her. 3 hours drive time to see her. Im 41 -have two young kids, husband and work. She’s very very very difficult to deal with. (She has mental illness of some form. Her Dad was diagnosed schizophrenia and she has displayed paranoid symptoms of that along with OCD behavior-she’s went homeless twice from paranoia.) We moved uncountable times when I was a child and always accusing ppl my whole life. She has never been formally diagnosed -even with 3 husbands and a crazy life-she’s managed to get through life never being evaluated. With home health now, she has already run one sitter off. And who knows the future sitters. She wont let them cook on her stove, she demands I place orders & get her groceries delivered and she only wants high quality organic items/freezer meals, she wont do any kind of meals on wheels. She throws food away-I even homecooked 20 days worth of meals& took to her. Only to find out she threw them away because they were in plastic containers. Im at my whits end. I’m tired and Ive asked her to start placing her own grocery orders,but she’s resisting strongly and saying she’ll starve and Ill be responsible. I do go down and get her to her Dr. visits and have rushed down there for other issues. But, she doesn’t cooperate with literally anything. She’s used me up financially, emotionally, and mentally myself. She threatens me of calling the police on me if I dont help her with any little thing she wants. Any possible way she can threaten and accuse me she does. I have to block her on my phone constantly to get a little peace in my life. Am I legally responsible for her? Im not her POA. The only thing I signed was her home health company sheet- I was a backup contact/caregiver if they couldn’t send anyone out. Also, Im worried about the future with her and her physical and mental health declines even more. I need help. Im in TN. But honestly Im afraid to be her POA- she’s mean and manipulative. Im the only person to help her. She has no friends to help. No other family.
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Ive remained firm in not being involved nor talking to her now for over a month. Have there been days where Im sad? Yes. Have I broken down crying terribly a time or two? Most def. Do I question sometimes what Im doing is still the right thing? Yes. But, I’ve had so much more peace in my life, I’ve not even known what to do with myself. Im happier with my kids and husband and feel like Im here again and present with them and not daily/hourly worried/heart palpitations-constant extreme stress about her and the next problem she would call me/text me about. So even though I struggle, I try to take a step back and remember my immediate family is my priority. And thanks to you all helping me clearly see what I needed to do, too. Thank you again.
She finally had agreed to be taken to the hospital the day of her surgery via a driving service that I behind the scenes arranged with her RN. She also around the same time agreed to get grocery deliveries arranged herself-she fought hard her RN said. Then, maybe a week or so after surgery they released her to go home—I found out she went home against the hospital’s advice/refused rehab. She gets home alone, evidently fell and fractured her hip the same day. As far as I now know, she’s back at home and refused assisted living for rehab again. Im not sure what will happen but Im not involved and this is a big reason why cuz she refuses so much.
She’s also back to leaving my Dad voicemails, her ex of 25 years whom she hadn’t spoken to that long ago, and telling him she never should have left him and remarried twice. Oof, he’s been happily remarried for a long time. I previously told him he really should block her…
All in all, she’s ?maybe? learning to be more independent. We’ll see.
You are really going to need boundaries of steel. If your Husband takes your back, we'll try here to cover the sides 🤺🗡🛡
You said "We really don’t want to be involved.."
Use that. Or even the very simple:
'I cannot'.
Thank ya’ll so much for your support. I really feel like this forum has helped me turn a corner and given me the information and support I have needed. This is a tough subject to discuss with just anyone in person. Most people don’t understand. Im so happy to have been welcomed here with loving and direct information.
And I love those simple responses!
"She’s going to think of anyone and every she can to drag into this".
This behaviour has been named *flying monkeys".
After the Wizard of Oz, where the Bad Witch sends out flying moneys to do her work.
Learning that term very much helped me. I could SEE it in action. When a hint, demand, call, txt didn't work, then a *flying monkey* was recruited. The *monkey* then called, txt etc.
Now the *monkey* may be fairly innocent & naive. Yet this can steal your peace. Having to explain yourself & your stance to distant realtives, neighbours, community workers or medicos. Nope. Skip this.
My advice for that is have a slogan prepared. One sentence to deflect monkeys & reduce the pressure on you. Make you own.. but something short eg "My Mother is in charge of her own affairs". Repeat if required, word for word. Do not add details (these can be 'unpicked' & used against you).
We have family members with schizophrenia and bipolar. One thing that I've learned the hard way is that you can't reason or compromise with those with active mental health issues.
I have not read the entire thread but I read the part where she called your Dad, her ex-husband.
Mentally ill people can have periods of "normalcy" which I suspect is what happened when she talked with your Dad.
I'm currently having to place a lot of distance between my mentally ill family member and myself. I can't handle the ongoing rages by text and phone and the ongoing weird demands.
I believe NAMI has some supports for family members but I have not explored that yet.
Consider distancing yourself from this surgery.
Best wishes to you.
This has just become a bigger monster in itself when now she has physical disabilities /untreated progressive Rheumatoid arthritis and not being even able to function daily on her own and so obstinate and accusatory.
I pray and hope she gets the help she needs and it works out. It’s gut wrenching to step away, but I have hope social services/APS gets involved and they can help her. 😞 Im just tired and spent in many ways. **hugs to you & in your trials too**
We did request what you mentioned at the hospital when she had her knee surgery several years ago. But, she vehemently refused and told hospital No, that she would have help. But, she didnt. Went home alone and didnt go to PT. And the same thing happened when she was in hospital this past Dec, they told her not to go home with no help and recommended AL. She refused and went home even with no help for several months until
home health came. Now she is facing no help again running off two home health sitters. I found out from RN this second sitter she has sent away because she didn’t wash her hands properly. 😣 The RN said she tried reasoning with her and would talk with the sitter. Nope, my Mom wants her gone.
Im terrified to get involved now and get her to hospital for a major hip replacement just for her to refuse so much. And she gets home alone with no help. It’s a terrible situation. :(
Now the voicemail she left me this morning she is saying she doesn’t like the new daily nurse and she’s going to tell home health for her not to come back. She needs the help?! and now she could be waiting another month with no help, because they had previously said theyre short on staff.
Also, in her voicemail —she’s threatening to not get her check to the landlord on time, because there is no one to take to him on the first and it’ll be my fault if she ends up going homeless again. Like just get your nurse today to drop it off?! She’s so mean to me, why can’t she stop the threats and just take care of HER business?! This is where it’s tempting to text her, but it never does any good. In the past, we would fight and she ALWAYS won. I would end up giving in and driving there to do a simple task.
Also in her voicemail she said she moved her pre-op to this next Thursday. We didnt take her yesterday and I had let her know last week we wouldn’t and I let her know she had to find other means through her insurance or govmnt-they offer free rides if you schedule them in advance. It went right over her head—she didn’t listen to any of that. So what has she done, rescheduled her pre-op for this next Thursday. And still talking like Im going to take her. 😖 She still isn’t grasping that I dont want to be involved, even with not responding to her for a full week. We really don’t want to be involved if she has no nurse after surgery and she will refuse Rehab. I just can’t. Anything that could go wrong does with her. It’s like a vortex of problems.
Im trying to be strong and keep staying away. Ive been feeling tinges of guilt-I want what’s best for her-but she never cooperates— I know this is never going to change its going to get worse (especially with untreated progressive RA) if I dont back away like all of you have said to me. It’s hard though.
She managed to find my Dad’s company phone number that he is retired from and they told him his ex-wife called him. He called her back!! They hadn’t spoken in over 20 years…and she starts asking him for help about pre-op! He was kind enough to talk with her and then texted me worried. I told him Im sorry but she’s desperate right now and it’s best for him to not help her/explained some.
Im so tired. Im gonna stay strong though. Im hoping it works out, and if it doesn’t I can’t blame myself. I just can’t.
She should have the number to APS to help her.
You need to tell her you cannot and willnot be involved with her care now. And all her problems are hers to deal with or to turn over to APS.
I repeat: My stepdaughter if 62 and has RA and manages a full and fully responsible life with it including her own care.
I repeat: Don't take on POA.
When she calls tell yourself this or have a sign painted to look at:
1. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE for the decisions of, care of, or happiness of another 62 year old woman.
2. I am responsible to give her guidance to numbers to call for her care.
If you get sucked into this whirling stew you will be dead meat at the end.
Surely do thank you for this update. It is so appreciated. Few ever respond to us after an initial question and we appreciate it. With you in strength in your struggle and asking you to remember I am 82. I would NEVER do this to my daughter, and your mom could use a good "Shame on you" said with strength.
DO NOT ENABLE HER BAD BEHAVIOR. Let her wear herself out with voicemails. Listen to them once daily.
1. Give advice
2. The person decides
3..The consequences are theirs
This is how they learn.
If someone (meaning well) steps in to save them (when they make a poor decision) they can learn to be dependant on that person.
It happened like that to me. It was suggested to my LO to be more independant & get a taxi home. I got a call to say come get me as the taxi didn't come. Each week then.. funny that.. again no taxi. One time I said No. I am busy. LO got a taxi home just fine. Then I SAW how this behaviour was being replicated in So Many other ways. I can't remember who, but someone called this *Limit Testing*.
The person will keep UPPING their *need* to find your limit. This can eat your whole life up.
Does this make sense?
Over the past 6 years Ive had to contend with this (constant demands of things she wants on a whim) on top of the money for expensive high quality groceries. So it’s been a fight constantly, especially when she thought I jipped her and bought low quality. She would even tell me how horrible of a daughter I was for not buying expensive things. Ive put up with a lot from her. It’s my fault and I realize that now.
I thought for a long time it was my duty as a good daughter to give her what she wanted, Ive been enabling her for farrr too long. It’s time for her to realize this “free ride” has got to stop. She’s used me up -mostly emotionally. Im tired.
Your Mother is in charge of her life.. 'rowing her own canoe'. Her way, up any river she chooses.
Eventually she will be forced to make changes. When that happens, health workers will explain her choices. Doctors will let her know any health changes. Any serious health issue will land her in a hospital. Social Workers will advice her discharge options eg home with services, rehab, AL.
It may come to Mother choosing one AL over another.
Choice & control. She's going to do what she wants.
I got a call back from her RN today. I explained that I could no longer provide her grocery deliveries and that I had to step away for my own well being. She was very kind and understood. She said my Mom was refusing to use her own phone to place delivery orders. So, the RN asked if she could call APS herself, because she was on her last meal. I said yes. Which I was glad of, because I don’t have to be involved hopefully. I just hope they can quickly get to her and figure out/get the process started. I dont want to see her without. But this is her decision to be stubborn -not mine.
My Mom again left threatening voicemails to me today. Then this evening a person from a long time ago that she knew from another state-texted me saying my Mom texted her —asking to contact me and ask me to get her groceries.
I knew this was coming. My husband said I should be prepared. She’s going to think of anyone and every she can to drag into this. I ignored the text message and I blocked her number because I cant explain myself to someone from ages ago. (which its awful cuz this lady has no clue and is so so sweet)
She’s going to pull all of the stops she can. I have to be strong right now. My husband and Mother In Law are supporting me. And everyone, too. Thank you all
I agree with notgoodenough. You cut the ties before surgery . It’s a large rabbit hole you don’t want to go down . Also you don’t need to worry of being accused of harming her.
DO NOT get involved in any way . Do not take her for surgery , do not pick her up , don’t take care of her . Do not even get involved in trying to make any arrangements for her before or after surgery . This is dangerous quick sand .
You ignore that any surgery is on the horizon .
Just call APS , and your Mom’s County Area Agency of Aging to report a vulnerable elder that you CAN NOT help in any way . Period . Don’t ask them any questions about if they can take her to surgery etc . Don’t even mention the surgery to them . Just tell them about how she can’t function on her own for everyday needs like you described here if they ask .
You walk away without getting involved in any discussions about her surgery at all with any agencies .
You tell Mom you can no longer help in any capacity then block her , or you just block her and ghost her , that’s up to you.
You made it thru a difficult childhood to become a good person. Nothing can stop someone who has done this!
Mom's getting enough Govt. money to never starve. She will need to face facts that she is not the Queen of the World, and will have to live within her means. She got herself into her own mess, and you are not responsible (nor caused it) whatsoever!
If she can afford an I-Phone, stop giving her money! Stop doing things for her, she can order her own food delivery. Let her call the police, they can't do anything to you. You should call APS Intake, tell them just the basics...you can't keep taking care of her, since you work and have your own family to take care of. Tell them she threatens to call the police if you don''t call in her grocery order! Tell them she has an I-Phone and can use it. You are not her POA, and not legally responsible for her. She also demands extra money from you for her expensive tastes, but you need to feed your own family. That is enough for them to deal with her.
Meanwhile, STOP doing everything she wants! Stop giving her money! She can go to the hospital on her own, or call Uber for a ride. Let her calls go to Voice Mail. If se has a fit, tell her simply: "I made vows to my husband, not you. I need to take care of my own family." You can't help someone so stubborn like this, they will never do what they should.
The time, money and energy you give to her you will never get back. Your husband and family are your priority.
She thinks you are her care slave, and slavery ended after the Civil War.
You have a long history here with a mentally ill mother who honestly, well-intentioned as you are--you cannot help. You didn't cause this and can't fix it. Your mother will live perhaps another three decades, until you yourself have grandchildren. Currently she is my DAUGHTER'S age. My stepdaughter just retired from teaching at age 62, following dealing with RA her entire adult lifetime. While it is hard to deal with she still maintains her home and garden and lives an active lifestyle with great medication and care from Kaiser.
Your mom, whether due to mental illness or not has made poor choices throughout her life. These have consequences. Do not let her RUIN your OWN life.
I would allow the state to be notified at the point you believe your mom to be a danger to herself. She is not cooperative. It is UTTERLY impossible to function for a mentally ill person. Join groups out there that support families of the mentally ill. There are many Forums on Facebook.
KNOW your own limitations and honor them and give care to your own family. Your mom's life has been what it has due to her own actions. You are not responsible and I do not believe, no matter WHAT you do that you can help her whatsoever.
Call APS when you believe she needs state to intervene in her care. Let them be the arbiters.
Be sure to read the wonderful memoir Never Simple by Liz Scheier. It is cheap used on Amazon or request at your library. Ms S. tried for a lifetime to intervene and help her mentally ill mom along with the entire social services of New York city and state. ALL TO NO AVAIL. I think you will clearly understand after reading that book that there is sadly little you can do here.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/schizophrenic-copd-vascular-dementia-mother-new-care-facility-adjustments-there-is-hope-489999.htm
You can help you Mom without being the person that gives the help. The problem with this country is its felt that those with mental illnesses can make their own decisions legally. And those that deal with parents with mental illnesses will tell you different. Call APS. Tell them you have done everything for Mom but she wants it her way and feels your the one who needs to be there for her. You have your own family to care for. Could they please see if there is anything they can do. At least put her on their radar.
My mantra "I am here to help people find a way, not be the way"
I did want to adjust one thing I said in original post. I said she had never been mentally evaluated. I actually forgot that she had been once. About 5 years ago. She got upset with me because she wanted me to buy her prescription glasses for several hundred dollars. I told her no, I wouldn’t pay for something that costly-I would get her something more affordable. I dont even buy myself that expensive of glasses. An argument ensued between us and she threatened suicide over the phone. I immediately called the police and they took her to hospital and then a mental facility. They called me at the time and I tried to tell them information of her issues over the years (I told Dr I witnessed her threaten suicide with a large knife when I was five years old out of back door window with her Dad telling her to stop-no one called police then). Dr’s couldn’t tell me anything about her, Dr could only listen to me. But, they ended up letting her be released because her Mom (my grandma went and got her out) I feel over the years with husbands and Mom/Dad someone should have stepped up to the plate and done something. My Mom moved out at the age of 15 and got married. My Dad never had the courage to get her mental help. My step Dad never. And the third husband I never met. Im sorry Im saying so much but I dont tell many people of my life or problems Ive endured with her. It’s nice to vent and have a listening ear. I have beat myself up so much over the years and I know Ive enabled her a lot. I just always wanted a mother who was there for me.
You are not the only person on this forum who was short changed in the mother dept. but it's important that you now accept the fact that your mother can't be the mother you've always wanted and you have to learn to have peace about that. Perhaps some good therapy can help you with that.
You didn't make your mother mentally ill and like already said, you can't fix it.
So now you must be strong for your immediate family and show them what it looks like to have healthy boundaries, as they are watching you.
One should never take on the responsibility for an irresponsible difficult parent . These uncooperative type parents expect their children to take orders from them . Everyone , including your mother , is better off having social services get her the help she needs.
I agree with those here that say stop doing anything for Mom , so social workers can get care to her sooner . By you helping , it delays her getting placed .
“ Back off , let her fail “ is what a very wise social worker told me from the County Agency of Aging . Call your mother’s County Area Agency of Aging to get involved . You can also call APS .
The way our lives turn out is a result of the choices we've made for ourselves. Your mother made hers. You can't reasonably expect to step in and make everything beautiful for her again, because she's already trashed herself beyond that point. Nothing you can do would fix this. Anything you would do risks pulling you into her reality - and why would you do that? You've seen this going on for many years. You've done what you could. Now you can do no more. And that's the truth.
I wish you luck in getting totally out of her life. Don't be POA, don't pay her bills, don't worry about her threats. The police aren't going to do anything to you. You are not responsible. Don't go to her doctor visits. The more you prop her up, the less anyone else will take the lead to get her the help she needs. No propping! And for heaven's sake, don't move her closer to you. That's a recipe for disaster.
For your mental health's sake you now need to completely step away, and call APS and report a vulnerable adult living by herself. They will come out and do an assessment and take things from there. I would also let APS/the state take over the responsibility of her.
DO NOT under any circumstances offer to be your mothers POA or guardian. Again let the state take over all of that.
How very sad that your mother being so young has not taken better care of herself. But that is on her not you, and she must now live with the choices that she's made.
And DO NOT help her financially anymore as you need your money for your own family. If your mother doesn't have enough money she can apply for Medicaid.
Your sole responsibility is to yourself, husband, marriage and children. Period, end of sentence.
So quit enabling your mother and allow her to now lie in the bed that she has made for herself.
I would also call the Area Agency on Aging in her area and ask what their best advice is to help a vulnerable senior with no nearby assistance.
No.
Untreated mental illness, especially paranoia, or severe personality disorders are very difficult and can lead to dangerous and frustratingly avoidable situations. But that these outcomes occur do not mean you are responsible for the person.
It likely is time to let the situation play out, to focus on your own family, and stop propping her up. This will draw her into care faster.
Two other things: 1-Then”calling the police” is an empty threat (and it clearly is a threat to force you to help her) You are not committing a crime. She can call, but nothing will happen.
2-If you were/did have POA (either medical or financial) it still would not make you legally responsible for her in terms of having to provide resources or care. It would just mean that you could represent her for various medical decisions or financial transactions. Also, she would have to give you the POA and that seems unlikely here. Most of all, if you do not want to be POA—DON’T DO IT.
You are not her PoA. Do not ever be her PoA or guardian for someone like this.
Do not continue to do anything for her. You stop taking or returning all her calls. Now the solution is for APS for her county to be called and get her on their radar as a vulnerable adult. You will need to be patient and wait for a judge to assign her a legal guardian who will then have the authority (and know-how) to get her into a LTC facility. If you continue to insert yourself (even a little) then it delays her getting appropriate care by social services for her county.
Your priority is to your own immediate family. You cannot help someone who isn't willing/able to help themselves -- especially without legal authority. She will continue to fight you and manipulate you so that you orbit around her for absolutely no good reason. You are already on your way to burnout. The solution for you is NO. She does have other care options. She won't like it but this is what she's created. She painted her own self into a corner.
There are plenty of other threads on this forum from exhausted and exasperated adult children of mentally ill parents. Please read those also so you understand what not to do. I respectfully suggest you see a therapist so that you can identify and defend healthy boundaries with her in the future.
It’s time for me to stop and focus on myself and imm. family. Im not a spring chicken anymore/my health matters and I have been telling myself she’s robbing me of my precious time of being a fully focused mother to my children. Thank you again.
If I call APS would they be able to get her to those appointments? Or should we take her until she’s in hospital and tell someone there APS needs to be contacted for future issues. She will refuse to go into a rehab place. She already did when she had knee replacement surgery several years back. She lied and said someone would be at her home to care for her, but she went back home alone and never went to physical therapy.
I know I just need to cut her off for good. I have been weak mentally for many years and Im determined to cut her off now. I can’t keep going on like this. My focus has been taken off of my family constantly for years now. It’s time. It’s just now or after this surgery?