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This all happened today.



My father, 90, died Aug. 4. My sister has been spending nights with mom, and mom has been equivocal to mean toward my sister who is pursuing buying the whole house from mom, even though mom told me last week she did not want to live under her child’s roof.



My mom is 87. She doesn’t have dementia. She still drives. However, my YS said that middle sister had found a way to “transfer” the property to YS while preserving Prop 13 in California for YS and that we would talk about it.



So, ok, but really not. My mom does not want to sell, first of all. Second, I assume we’d all be on the hook for gift vs estate tax. Third, this is way too soon for anyone to be accelerating this.



Ok, and then we are going home and his mom calls. We pop over there and there’s this 6 yo there, not even the child of this aide but one from some relative of hers, and it’s late. The child may be sleeping there for all I know. I told DH I wasn’t going to be part of affirming this behavior and he shouldn’t be either.

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Your siblings are out of line here. They need to leave mom alone.
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BurntCaregiver Oct 2023
I agree. The sisters need to stop. Everyone should have a sit-down with the mom and find out what's going on from her and what she wants to do.
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Just to clarify mom pays the gift tax not those who get the gift. So you wouldn't be on the hook for anything. And yeah selling house to sister below market value is probably what the sister is angling for.

If sister wants to pay full market value and mom wants to sell it to her thats moms choice.

But it sounds like mom is being manipulated and pressured by your other two sisters which is not cool.

As for the in-laws it's not your monkeys and not your circus. You have enough problems in your own messed up family dynamic to worry about someone else's family.
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Peggy Sue, has your mom applied for her SS benefit to be increased so she is getting Dad's benefit?

Survivors Benefit Amount

From SSA.gov:

Surviving spouse, full retirement age or older — 100% of the deceased worker's benefit amount.
Surviving spouse, age 60 — through full retirement age — 71½ to 99% of the deceased worker's basic amount.
Surviving spouse with a disability aged 50 through 59 — 71½%.
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PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
I don’t know. I’ll have to ask. So she’d get her ss plus my dads then?
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Yeah. Like I don’t any of this makes sense at base levels.
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The more tangled things become before your mom is able to rationally make decisions on her own, the more difficult those decisions will be to undo.

If Mom is TRULY LUCID regarding the aspects of this situation, SHE needs a good family practice lawyer’s opinion. She also needs to get her paperwork in order for POA and her will. If that hasn’t been done none of you will be able to take charge when/if necessary.

If she is dealing with “a little forgetfulness”, “needs a little help that she didn’t need a year ago”, “doesn’t always lock her door or sometimes leaves pots on a hot stove burner” or “doesn’t seem to keep herself up and dress as well as she was before” or any other observable changes over the last 12-18 months, she also needs a physical and medical opinion.

If you have ANY SAY among your siblings, you may want to suggest that ALL OF YOU get out of the picture as far as decision making that at least for now, belongs to Mom.

You decision, right now, is fine. Stick to it.
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What kind of living situation DOES mom want, Peggy Sue?

Would she like sis to move out?

Will she tell her that?
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PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
My mom told me that she was open to ys paying 400k to remodel the upstairs into kind of a 2br in law suite for her and her child. That’s obviously a gift that obviously requires tax. I persuaded mom to ask her accountant as to who pays. Anyone here know?
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PeggSue2020, I am a big fan of lots of communication. I am a retired therapist. Could you arrange a family meeting as an opportunity for everyone to share what they are thinking about mom's situation? Of course, start with getting mom on board with the idea. Speculating and assuming what others want and need will just cause problems. If needed, you can schedule a Zoom meeting so that all sisters can be present. If Mom is competent, her wishes need to be heard by all at the same time. It would be wise to make such a meeting structured so that everyone can say what is on their mind without interruption. Take notes so that when emotions flare later everyone can look back at the notes. Email a copy to everyone after the meeting.
Discuss the house, the visiting kid, future care plans that Mom prefers, etc. It may seem daunting but if you do have a meeting you will not regret it.

Good luck!
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Peggy Sue is talking about two DIFFERENT situations; her mother is a recent widow who has an adult daughter staying with her. Two of her daughters (Peggy Sue's sisters) want mom to sell the house to them.

Peggy Sue's in-laws have an aide whose child or niece is staying there.

Peggy Sue, is that correct?
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1. Does mom want to live with your sister, and vice versa?

2. Will mom ever need Medicaid for LTC? Only say "no" if she has at least 2 million in reserve aside from home. Because this "deal" isn't going to sit well with them.
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PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
1. Allegedly, my mom told middle sister to talk to the attorney about how ys could remodel the house without ys having to pay gift tax. But my mom and ys are having tiffs of the two women in one kitchen type. Most of my dads clothes are still in his closet. I am still failing to see why we can’t put this off for at least six months given the normal trajectory of grief.

2. There’s about 1.5m remaining in mom’s retirement accounts. Beyond this, she only has the social security that stay at home moms do. If she exhausts that, however, I don’t want her to go the Medicaid route.
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Be concerned about the child living there or even visiting. Kids frequently get colds and other illnesses that could be serious if mom gets them. Older people get pneumonia and it kills.
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BurntCaregiver Oct 2023
I'd be more worried about 87 year olds driving then getting a cold.

People get pneumonia shots today. I was a caregiver for a long time and can tell you that children can be like a tonic for the elderly. Clearly the mother doesn't really need hands-on care if she's still able to drive herself places. So what's wrong with having the kid around of she likes them?

I used to bring my boy around on some cases that did not involve any hands-on care. The old people loved him. A situation like that could very well be what's going on.
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