My mother is in a skilled nursing facility, wheelchair bound.
I am as of yet waiting to talk to the Discharge Planner to get any sort of an update on her situation, other than the version she is relaying to me (which is unreliable at best).
Well, my mother just called me and said she spoke to my brother's wife, who is "getting her a wheelchair", and then "she is going to have my brother come and pick her up and take her to a motel in Fullerton where she will stay for four days". Not kidding.
I still haven’t gotten a call back from the Discharge Planner, who I have tried to call several times.
I told my mother in no uncertain terms she cannot come back to my house wheelchair bound as she is unsafe. I said it as kindly and compassionately as possible. She unloaded on me with a litany of hostility, and then hung up.
I’ve tried to call my brother, no response. I don’t know what else to do, but wait to talk to the Discharge Planner.
There is no way she can discharge herself, can she?
Waiting for next update.
Wishing all the best for today ER. I hope mom lands safely in her hotel if that is still her plan.
Also hoping the housing folks come up with a suitable location for her in the very near future.
Stay strong.
I visited with my mom the other night; she is still about 90% confined to the wheelchair, but, seemed in far, far better spirits. We didn't get into the tough subjects - we had a pleasant visit, chatted about other things. I think she's on a path towards acceptance, but, isn't quite at the destination on that just yet. Which I imagine is pretty normal?
She said something to me about how "the first thing she needs to do when she gets out of there is get her car charged up" (she has an electric car, that she leased last year with my brother's assistance, to my chagrin ... she had totaled her other one in an accident); she doesn't seem quite as willing to accept that she shouldn't be driving. So, the divide between reality and fantasy seems alive and well ... but, at least she isn't making a case for coming back to my house!
My next order of business will be to meet with a senior housing planning counselor type person, and talk about the assisted living options here in Orange County that will work within her budget/with her care needs.
Thanks to all of you for "holding my cyber hand" through this. I would never have gotten to this place without you all, much less felt such confidence in my ability to ensure guiding where it all goes from here, inevitable hiccups and bumps along the way that I expect!
One thing you need to check before planning an outing, can she actually do that without being cut off by Medicare.
I was told if my dad was well enough to go out, I wanted to take him to see the board and care home, he was well enough to be discharged from rehabilitation.
<<It was then brought up that her goal was to "get back home". I said very loud and clear that "home" means at my house, and that is not an option, no matter what progress she incurs with her therapy. I said it as compassionately but clearly as I could. My mother, looking a bit enraged, looked at me and said "well, then - what are YOU doing here, then?" I looked at everyone, and with immense calm replied, "I am here to support the process of identifying a living arrangement for you that is best for you, and that will keep you safe and healthy."
Yay you!!!!!!!
I can't think of a single thing you could have done better.
Just think if you weren't there! The plan would have been for her to return to your home! THAT is a big reason why you were there!
I'm surprised your brother was there. Were you?
First - you all are absolutely lovely. I am so grateful for each and every one of you, and I am confident I would never have walked into yesterday's meeting feeling as strong and as wise as I did if not for all of you.
I apologize for the delay in updating; when I got home last night, I felt so immensely drained that I literally collapsed onto the couch and didn't get up again until my husband encouraged me to go to bed.
BUT ... the news is good. The family care meeting, which definitely had an awkward start, went much, much better than I had expected.
In the meeting were - my mother, myself, my brother, the case worker, the physical therapist, the nutritionist, and the head of nursing.
My mother was clearly agitated by the environment, and complained that she had no idea this meeting was taking place. She was reminded by several of the folks that she had been told numerous times about this meeting.
It was then brought up that her goal was to "get back home". I said very loud and clear that "home" means at my house, and that is not an option, no matter what progress she incurs with her therapy. I said it as compassionately but clearly as I could. My mother, looking a bit enraged, looked at me and said "well, then - what are YOU doing here, then?" I looked at everyone, and with immense calm replied, "I am here to support the process of identifying a living arrangement for you that is best for you, and that will keep you safe and healthy."
That shut her up for a bit.
The tone of the meeting improved from there. By the end of the meeting, she still seemed a bit grumpy, but was visibly bought into the idea that assisted living with some intervention to monitor her medications would be an ideal arrangement. She actually started to seem even a bit excited to examine possible assisted living homes around the community, to find one she might like.
I was so, so, so incredibly grateful to meet everyone there, and to have that issue cleared up for everyone.
My brother was there, but ... mostly remained silent. He is going to take a back seat while I drive this train ... which is okay, as I am certainly best suited to drive it anyway, and if it leads to a positive outcome for all, it will be well worth it.
Next week I plan to visit her at the facility on Monday (I am out of town all weekend), and maybe even take her out of the facility for a few hours for an excursion.
Now, I don't think there won't be more bumps along the way, on this journey overall, but I do think the biggest roadblock has been overcome. I cannot tell you all how immensely grateful I feel.
I hope you all have a wonderful weekend. I will keep you all posted as this journey continues!!!! <3
THIS IS ALWAYS the best way. Truth forward. Which is basically "No, you are not returning to my home and my life; I am sorry, but NO."
Now discharge planning and all others know where this stands.
And now you are FREE to be NICE to her in an outing, and not feel she will/can twist you into a pretzel. Just tell her that if she can't remember the meeting you can bring EVERYONE TOGETHER AGAIN to go through it with her.
You are a rockstar. You did a PERFECT job and if it were on film we could play it for others so they would know how to do it. Your bro remaining quiet was perfect. It let one and all know who the engineer is on that train, and still showed his support by being there.
GOOD JOB GOOD JOB, woman. Wonderful job. Enjoy your time away.
"Normal", i.e., non-mentally ill, non-demented parents do not have expectations that their adult children should give up their lives, livelihoods and/or retirements to care for them.
Loving children are perfectly within their rights to reject the idea of providing housing and/or hands on care for their parents. It is NOT a matter of love, it's a matter of temperament, ability, financial capability, physical and mental health of the caregiver, in addition to the needs of the person in need of care.
My mom had 3 loving children and in law kids; none of us thought for a minute about providing care for mom in our homes. She was in need of socialization and folks who could monitor her depression and anxiety, as well as her medical needs.l
When you don't get this growing up you sure won't later. EZ is on her own, but she's doing it.
And now it's about to come true, if he takes her out of the facility.
Seek therapy to sort this out and tell discharge planning the truth, that there is no one in your home who can provide a safe level of care for your mom.
They will tell you "we will get you help". They are lying.
I am sure I would benefit from therapy to sort this out. I appreciate the "mirror" you are holding up for me, as I think I need it more than I sometimes want to admit.
You need to call the reception desk and ask for the person above the discharge planner. Their boss. Or even the DON. There is no reason that you should not have been called back in at least within 24 hrs. You make it very clear that in Moms present condition, she cannot come back to your home. It would be an "unsafe" discharge because ur home is not wc friendly.
In ur last post you said Mom has 140k. I wrote this would give her maybe 2 yrs in a nice AL. If you don't want to bring her home, then you have to make plans now. There is no guarantee how long she will be there. Medicare pays 100% for the first 20 days but there is no guarantee she will be there 20 days. She may go beyond the 20 days. Medicare pays only 50% from 21 to 100 days. Mom is responsible for the other 50% unless she has a very good supplimental. Medicare determines how long a person stays in Rehab by the progress they make. If Mom is there for the whole 100 days and is considered 24/7 care, then its a transfer to LTC and her paying privately till she spends down her money then Medicaid can be applied for.
I would call the discharge planner one more time and if you need to leave a message, tell her since she has not returned ur previous calls that you need to inform her now that Mom cannot be discharged to your home. So, arrangements need to be made where she will go upon discharge.
Hopefully, brother has VM. I would also leave him a message that Mom cannot come back to your home when discharged so we need to make a decision, where is she going. If you never hear from him, there is your answer, she is your problem and you have permission to place her.
As much as you are tired of being your moms caregiver, I doubt you will abandon her. It seems you need a therapist and an attorney.
You stated you are not her POA, is brother?
Your plan to not charge her rent, etc. doesn’t really protect you from her being considered a legal tenant. And tenants have rights.
It depends on the tenant rules for your state and how hard she is willing to fight for her rights as to how this plays out. After three years, I assume she receives mail at your home? Does she use your address for her photo ID, her bills, voter registration, insurance, etc? Does she have a key? Legally she may have the right to come back to your home. You don’t have to be her caregiver but you might need to legally evict her. That could take a month or more. She could hire her own caregiver. Is it realistic to you that she could manage that?
Perhaps she was going to the hotel because you said she couldn’t come home and she thinks the hotel staff will care for her?
Who knows what she is thinking? She is obviously not at her best for making long term decisions.
I would tell your brother that she needs placement after she leaves the rehab. Now is a good time to meet and figure out what your mom needs to do. An ALF might be appropriate while she regains her mobility if that is even possible.
The staff should be able to help you decide if she needs ALF or NH care.
She needs a POA and she needs a plan for long term care. A cooling off period might help her realize that. She has many health issues that are difficult to manage as she is now.
A POA doesn’t give you the right to make decisions for her. It gives you the right to represent her wishes to her doctors and financial institutions. If she is able to still do that on her own, that’s great. Let her make her own decisions while you make yours.
I wouldn’t push to be her POA but I wouldn’t take care of her if someone else was holding the POA. Try to keep the emotions checked and help her see things logically. It is a tough time for you and mom.
I am so grateful for this forum!!!!! And for all of you who have taken the time to share your wisdom and compassion with me.
If her driver's license lists your address, legal residence.
If she gets mail in her name, legal residence.
You want to stick to unsafe discharge. That is what will keep the SNF trying for placement.
I see that you have been told you can't resign as POA if she is diagnosed with dementia, you CAN resign. Nobody is obligated to accept being designated as someone's POA.
Also, until a judge declares her incompetent, she has the legal right to make her own decisions. Doctors CAN NOT take away your autonomy. They can recommend, they can diagnosis but, only the courts can take away someone's freedom of choice and control over themselves.
You should tell your mom, if you leave the facility I am done helping you. Let her rant and rave. Walking away or hanging up is how you stop her from shredding you. My mom uses anger as an attempt to control, so what, doesn't make me do anything I am not willing to do.
Just a heads up, she will probably amp up her control mechanisms, they worked in the past. So be prepared for her to go over the top trying to get you back in line.
I think I would make it clear to brother that he will be fully responsible for her if he or wife facilitate her leaving the facility.
Best of luck, these situations just stink.
Edit: she is using your past transgressions as a means of control, if she hasn't forgiven or gotten over your teenage missteps by now, she never will. Forgive yourself and don't worry about her ever giving you forgiveness, you don't need it and you have atoned enough.
With regard to my teenage "transgressions", I was actually in all honesty a bit of an ideal child. Odd in many ways, but, ideal. I graduated high school very early. I got good grades, stayed out of trouble, never drank, never did anything rebellious ... except for wanting to visit my father, after my parents divorced. My mom did everything to block my ability to see him, so, a couple of times I snuck out to visit him. At Age 15, she kicked me out of the house - I was on my own after that.
So, there's sort of an odd irony embedded in the idea of my "kicking her out" of my house (although I don't quite see it in that context, but, it has gone through my mind).
Most people who know me, and know my mother/our history, are baffled that I have anything to do with her, let alone have gone so far as to try to help her.
And the cherry on the cake of that is ... the "story" she concocted about why my brother remained at home with her until he was 25, with her taking care of him/paying for his college, etc., versus me who was thrust into the world to fend for myself ... her story has always been that taking care of my brother was her "investment into her future", because "someday when she needs, he will be the one to take care of me."
My brother is 54 years old, underemployed, and lives with his wife's parents. I knew decades ago that this prophecy of hers never stood a chance of working out the way she had hoped.
Thank you for the warnings ... I think you are right. I'm bracing for the worst, when it comes to her vitriol in particular ...
In my mind (and this was taught to me by my mom) if you choose to bring children into the world, you are participating in a huge lottery. You get the child you get--temperamentally, health-wise and the like. S/he is yours and that's it. We don't OWE our parents.
We pay forward our debt to them through our own kids and the other folks we mentor and shape.
So, what is it you (or your mom) thinks you need to be forgiven for?
I harbored this idea that, if I opened my home, gave her a nice place to live where she was free of obligations, financial and otherwise, there would be a peaceful end to our shared chapter of time on Earth. Probably a hair-brained idea, in retrospect - but, my intentions were good. What I ended up doing instead, I think, is fostering her ability to be devoid of gratitude, and amplify her entitlement instead - and further, giving her leverage with me that she didn't have before (and I ignorantly assumed she would never seek). My husband is a literal saint - supporting me, enduring how she has treated me over the years, and prioritizing propping me up instead of creating more conflict, despite my mother's manipulative attempts to cast him as the villain (it would be easier to control me, I think, if he were at odds/out of the picture).
So much clarity is flooding into my world now. So much.
Full forgiveness by whom for what?
I'm far from perfect, and have done my share of foolish things in life - but despite that, I can say with certainty (and maybe even a bit of pride, dare I say) that I've never acted towards her out of anger, or said something that I regret, despite everything. There have been at least a dozen or more dramas across our mutual time as adults where she has been hateful towards me and ceased talking to me for a period of time. I've never gone down the rabbit hole of conflict with her, though - I've always been kind, never said anything I feared I would one day regret. That's a gift I have given myself, as I have zero challenges looking in the mirror, if that makes sense.
Nope.
I tinkered with the idea of doing absolutely nothing. I mean, I had only been hinted at..
But (being younger & less experienced) the suspense was gnawing at me. Had I been *volunteered*?
I eventually got thru to someone with discharge authority. Explained I was not the ride.
Moral of that story is: I thought I had no power... But I DID.
(PS I DO pickup, but only if I consider I can be the help Safely & within Reason).
Brothers Wife and Brother want to take her out? Fine, call them and let them know they are now in charge of her housing. They dump her on your lawn, she gets wheeled back to where they are, or you call the cops to come get her.
That sounds stark, and it’s hard to do, but in reality it’s just another consequence that she has to come to terms with. Often with elders they need a consequence to see that it’s real.
We have a recent poster, Maddaughter, who is going through similar angst. You might find it useful to connect with her.
Here is one of her threads: https://www.agingcare.com/questions/drop-everything-or-its-your-fault-471695.htm?orderby=recent
I have only been on this site a few days now, but ... I feel incredibly grateful I have found this community. As much as I do not delight in anyone suffering similar circumstances, I can't help but admit that it is so validating and reassuring to know I am not alone ...
Your situation is so much better, having not intermingled residence, finance, etc., and wishing you best of luck, cause I know how hard this all is. I’m a daughter, who has tried to help, over the past eight years, but our home has never been considered as a place, for our parents to go. They have their own home, and family help. I stand ready, hoping I’m called, before I get much older. But I’m still young enough. Take care.
Once she is diagnosed it will be hard to give up the POA. You would need an attorney and court action to be dismissed and the state would be assigned.
I myself would not want to be dealing with this woman. I would walk away.
Then let her get herself discharged or whatever and throw your phone into the trash, get a new one.
I hear you, about "not dealing with this woman" ... if I told you the full story of our shared history, you'd probably be even more certain I have zero reason to interact with her in the first place. I always believed about myself that doing a kind thing for her was my way to ensure I incurred full forgiveness, and confidence in knowing I always did my best for her. I do still feel that way ... but, boy, there are certainly times I've wanted to hang it all up and walk away ...
It also seems that your mother still makes her own decisions and has not been declared incompetent, correct?
Your mother might be thinking that she will go to a motel and then call and beg you to take her home, which we hope that you WILL NOT DO.
If your brother picks her up, the ball's in his court. She can try to make HIM take her to live in HIS home.
Or maybe she's made it all up.
Please keep us updated!
As far as I am aware, she has not been declared incompetent. Although her latest outburst today probably isn't helping to ensure it is kept it that way.
And, yes - I can completely visualize that scenario. Her in a motel, my brother not picking up the phone, her begging for me to come and get her. NOPE.
I've made it crystal clear to her, and to the SNF, that she is not going to come here as this is not a safe place for someone without full mobility, and contrary to what she may be telling them, there are no caregivers here to look after her.
One sorta funny (you have to laugh, right?) thing that she said, while she was laying into me, was that I had "impoverished her". Yes, I, the evil daughter, who has given her a beautiful 2 room suite with master bath, provided for all of her needs - television, phone, climate control, etc. - free of charge, now for over three years ... yes, I have "impoverished her". I don't know what is sadder - that she tries these tactics on me, or, that they actually used to work, once upon a time ...
I haven't spoken to my brother yet, but as soon as I do, I will also relay to him crystal-clear that if he dares remove her from that facility against medical advice - ceasing her current Medicare coverage for this incident, depriving her of the care they were providing, and sticks her in a motel, no less - that he will be assuming full responsibility for her, period. I will move her belongings into a storage cube, send him the instructions to access, and change the locks on my house.
So help me.
i’m sure the situation’s very hard - for you, for your mother. i understand you can’t help her in your home.
i also understand her: there are people who don’t want to be in a facility (for valid reasons). sometimes “life” is awful in a facility. they want to escape.
we also, any of us, after only a few days in hospital, can’t wait to get out, go home.
a dear friend of mine (a very good man) - his father was in a facility (the best facility in the area). dementia. his father managed to escape and find his way back to his old house (he walked home). unfortunately, my friend had to pick up his father and bring him back to the facility. very sad, because obviously the father didn’t want to be there. and in fact, my friend said, if he himself ever had to be in the facility, he would kill himself before.
my friend is a good man. he wanted what’s best for his father. unfortunately there wasn’t any choice. 24/7 care at home was too expensive.
——
i understand people who try to escape from facilities.
i also understand the family members, worried/stressed, trying to figure out what to do.