My mother needs to sell her home. She is living with me. She refuses to sign the contract and we have a buyer. Do I use POA & not tell her?

We dealt with this with two out of state properties. Before I get too into the weeds here, for your own protection, get with an elder law attorney.

The first one we sold in Texas under authority of the POA. Our mom was still in her own home At this time. And she would go back and forth about selling it. I simply went to her and said, you have had a good offer on your Texas House, I think you should take it. I can handle all the details. The buyer is someone you know, and wanted it for awhile. It will relieve of this tax burden. She said ok.

We sold it. Not 3 months after closing, Hurricane Harvey made landfall in Rockport Texas, where house was located. Obliterated so much there. Her house badly damaged.

Her other house in rural depressed area of Arkansas, was her family home, and really getting bad. Not a big pool of buyers in that area. We sold it to an investor. But we had photographs to document the houses dilapidated condition. You do this to,prove to Medicaid, if that is on horizon, here's why we sold for this much. We also had the termite inspector report to give to same.

All of this was handled long distance via phone and email. We did this one under authority of guardianship. She never knew. And that was a blessing.

But we found notes she had wanted to remove us as POA. She was not competent to do so.

Her last house was sold in April of this year. She never knew about that one either. But with its sale, we would have been able to pay for almost two more years as private pay client in memory care.
She passed away Tuesday.

ETA get an appraisal if her house if Medicaid on horizon. They demand it be sold at fair market value.

This is a private sale, no Realtor, correct?
Please heed gladimhere’s post. It really needs to be sold at FMV or as close to that within 5-10% max.

If its current tax assessor value is 185k, and she sells it to her old neighbor for 125k, should she apply for Medicaid before Summer of 2024 that 60k gap can place her Medicaid application in jeopardy as the 60k will pose questions as to it being gifting / special rate to the buyer. It wasn’t sold via a Realtor with a MLS listing on the open market. The appraisal can be attached to the Act of Sale when it gets recorded at the courthouse in addition to the copy you’ll keep.

Could you as her DPOA deal with gifting issues in the future next 5 years??, yea maybe but you need documentation as to why it was worth way way less than assessor value. By 2023 / 2024 mom’s care needs may be increased and you are overwhelmed to deal with her much less chasing down house stuff in another state under 30 day time constraints from Medicaid. Photos of its status today in 2019 help but a an inspection & an appraisal done by a licensed and registered residential inspector and appraiser in her old state prior to Act of Sale will be invaluable to establish why it was worth less and in detail. Your not paying a 3% Realtor commission, please please spend some of that savings to have appraisal done. It’s viewed as a legal document.

if it’s likely to be still sold way under appraisal/ assessor value, be aware that she may be put on private pay for a period of time till gifting penalty period is done. If your state LTC Medicaid pays $175 day for room & board, a 60k penalty runs abt 353 days she will be Ineligible & in the NH at private pay rate.

Have you considered renting it to the neighbor to lower the expenses in the interim?

There are POAs that take effect immediately.
Also banks do not like to honor a POA that is more than 3 years old. And some banks have their own POA they want signed.

As far as I know and may be different per state laws, but POA's usually not enough for you to sign for her. You may be able to take care of all the paper work leading up to the actual sale & deed transfer but mother may have to sign.

Trying IsntEasy's suggestions, commiserating on the handing over of a well-loved home, but focus on the future, how much loved and cared for it will be by a new young family, etc., might help. Someone suggested she meet the prospective new family (she already knows the neighbors.) It is a long trip, but perhaps it could work, or they could come meet your mom or even meet half way.

Another idea is to show her in detail what will happen if you don't sell. Hopefully you have some expense records from recent years for utilities, taxes, insurance, etc.

If you list all the costs associated with keeping it, and potential costs because it will get run down, whether she lives there or not, and compare it to the $$$ she will have instead... As others said, she also needs to have a special unoccupied insurance policy - they ARE expensive! We lucked out going with the company who held the condo master policy, but still... 

When we were preparing to sell mom's condo, the EC atty asked why (it was a life estate, tax implications higher if we sell while she is alive - mom was moved to MC.) My response was I don't want to be a landlord and rent it, but in addition this was becoming a money pit.

The heating system died... cha-ching.
The windows started losing seals, requiring replacements (every time I went, oops, there's another one!), cha-ching,
Between just the condo fee and RE tax, it was $14K a year going down the drain... cha-ching.
Water bill was $60 EVEN WITHOUT USAGE!
The cleaning and other repairs were a B***H and cost in the neighborhood of $10,000!!!!
It was only 1.5 hours each way for me, for you it is 7 hours!

You WILL have to check on it periodically, esp as required by the new policy. It WILL need periodic cleaning and perhaps some repairs (hopefully not bad ones, but bring that up with her!) Utilities and yard work, snow removal, etc etc etc all add up in addition to utilities, taxes, etc., for her place (again condo covered snow and yard.)

Add in electric, gas, internet access for Wi-Fi camera to watch over it...cha-ching

ALL that going down the toilet, plus whatever else might go wrong with it (in a condo, the exterior and yard work, thankfully, wasn't involved, but if she has a house and the roof or septic system, it there is one, need repair/replacement, will seriously impact her - would she have money to pay for repairs, maintenance and all other necessities?) The yard needs upkeep, possible painting, you'll need to monitor the house for heat (unless it is winterized) - if the heat goes out, she'll have broken pipes, water damage, etc. Water leaks can happen even without storms or loss of heat (had it happen in my other house and in this one - no one there, no one will know!!! Water damage WILL cause major loss.) Storms can damage it, who will pay for the repairs (ins usually has a large deductible, but some damages are not covered, esp if no one is living there!) Her $$ is going to a void now and could/likely will get worse. Selling now, with a buyer in hand, ensures she will have money, fond memories and NO worries about something happening to the place! If she mentions going back as response to it being unoccupied and potential issues, remind her that she cannot stop storms, or other damage - living there or not is going to be a serious money drain.

If you can show her using a chart covering current and potential expenses as well as some what-ifs and their cost on one side vs the gain on the other, perhaps it will lighten the pain? Hopefully you can include her income and demonstrate how this is depleting what she "has" and also how negatively she would be impacted if major repairs are needed - they do happen, even in a well-built, lovingly cared for home!

As for the POA, depends on how it's written, what state laws might govern it, etc. I was using DPOA for mom for everything BUT the actual deed - attorney told me I needed her signature. Told her it was insurance. She had already forgotten the place.

I have POA for my parents ( dad passed from ALZ 4 years ago). When they moved in with me, my mom was still with it. My POA said I had the right to do property transfers. The realtor and lawyer looked over the paperwork, and indeed I did. So perhaps it depends on how the POA is worded? I sold the house with no problems. Luckily mom was on board ( but sad),, but it would have made no difference. She did not go to the sale with me,,, I drove 2 hours in a snowstorm to the settlement, but it got done.

Can you say something like "Mother, I'm surprised by your refusal to sign the contract. These nice people have waited 2 years for your house and, during that time, hubby and I have brought your possessions here. How do you feel about living here with us?" Hear her out. If she says only positive things about living with you, gently put the contract in front of her, give her a pen and sweetly say "Mother, it's time to let the neighbor's daughter love and care for the house you and daddy built." If she still won't sign, ask her "Mother, do you want me to handle this for you?" Perhaps she just doesn't want to do it herself.

my first question is: Do you really want her to live with you? Will you be the caretakers when things get difficult? (2 Questions)
in answer to your question, use your POA to sell the house and tell her. She will find out sooner or later. Tell her it is in the best interest for her future and that you plan to take care of her. The house is a burden. You must be honest

Gosh - my first thought is do you want her living with you? Like what happens if it doesn't work out?

Someone needs to be the adult, sometimes our love ones don’t have the right mindset to make the right decision, and we have to make the right decisions for our love ones.

If she can afford to maintain it, allow her to maintain it: paying the bills, upkeep,taxes and all of that. If she can afford to hire someone to manage that and pay those bills that would be OK too. If not, then use your POA. There comes a time when you have to stop asking and just do it.

I was made DPOA for two friends of mine with no children and no close relatives. It gave me complete authority over all financial and medical decisions. I found a good memory care apartment for the two of them, but it took 2 1/2 years to convince the husband it was time to move. At that point the wife was incontinent and starting to wander as her frontal temporal dementia worsened and she needed 24 hour care. The move went smoothly after some good planning. I was paying all their bills and seeing to their needs up to that point. It took me 2 1/2 years to go through all their belongings, remove all their furniture, fix the obvious things that needed fixing and get it sold. The realtor used to work at the facility I had found for my friends and already knew me and had become friends over the time it took to get them to move in. He guided me every step of the way and helped with all the paper work. There was no bank involved as their condo had no mortgage. It was an easy, clean sale and the check went right to their savings account. That paid for another year or so of the husband's care since his wife had passed already. So, it depends a little on the DPOA form and what authority was given to you. My friends checked all the boxes on what authority I had and their bank notarized it and were on board with my taking over. I never explained to my friends what I was doing with their condo and belongings and they never asked. It worked out best this way.
It's still a big undertaking on your part and you have already done a lot, so best wishes on your success with this. Your mom will have the money from the sale, so she won't be left with "nothing."

Its hard for some of us to let go. Including me. I can't clean out my garage because I don't want to throw something out. If I don't, my child will have to do this all alone later on in life... Yikes.

Sometimes it is okay to rip the band aid off. Make sure she is settled in a new place first. ASk the escrow company/buyer or whoever to give you a couple months to ease mom out of home without causing a stroke. Then use your POA to finalize the deal.

Ask a family lawyer, elder care person advisor for advice.

Visit some places close to you, senior living, assisted living, they will make appointments with you and tell them your situation. You want her close to you so you can get there within 10 minutes. My mom and aunt are a 2 minute drive from me in same 6 pack. 2 caretakers, 6 residents in a family style home.

Jen, what I might suggest is to go to your mother’s house and take a video of what it is like now. Let it show anything that needs fixing, the empty rooms that look miserable, the remaining card board boxes on the floor etc. Show it to your mother and ask ‘How could you go back there? Do you want your wonderful house to look this unloved? It isn’t really the house your remember any more. It needs to be loved by someone who wants to live there!’.

With luck, she may agree to sign. If she doesn’t, just say that you are going to have to do it for her. Bight the bullet. She can’t send herself and you broke by paying out on an unoccupied house. POAs have to use logic to help her. By the way, I hope that you made a video of the house when she left, for memories of it looking nice. I’ve done that for every house I’ve left or sold, and the same for all my various relatives. If you have, it might even help as a contrast.
Best wishes in a difficult situation.

Jen, what I might suggest is to go to your mother’s house and take a video of what it is like now. Let it show anything that needs fixing, the empty rooms that look miserable, the remaining card board boxes on the floor etc. Show it to your mother and ask ‘How could you go back there? Do you want your wonderful house to look so unloved? It isn’t really the house your remember any more. It needs to be loved by someone who wants to live there!’.

With luck, she may agree to sign. If she doesn’t, just say that you are going to have to do it for her. Bight the bullet. She can’t send herself and you broke by paying out on an unoccupied house. POAs are there to use logic to help someone who can't be logical. By the way, I hope that you made a video of the house when she left, for memories of it looking nice. I’ve done that for every house I’ve left or sold, and the same for all my various relatives. If you have, it might even help as a contrast.
Best wishes in a difficult situation.

I agree with Grandma1954 regarding a rental option. If neighbor's daughter and your mother can agree to rent the house with an Option to Purchase, it remains in your mom's name until she ready to sell (or her deminishing mental capacity requires you, as POA, to take over). Plus, the daughter has possession of the house and will be near her mother. Renters who have an option to buy take better care of the property since they have a future investment in it. Win. Win.

With my mom having dementia, she would constantly forget she had a house an hour from us, then would want it sold, then would not because she wanted to move back into it. It took us a year to empty the house (it's an hour from us, we both work full time and had a tragic death in the family that slowed things down). I finally stopped asking her to go with us to tell us what she wanted to keep because she would just get upset and cause more issues. I kept what was sentimental for her and got rid of everything else. We have a 4 bdrm home and didn't need any duplicates of anything. We put the house on the market and I sold it without her knowledge and put the money in her savings account. When away from the house, she could not remember she had it and when there, she didn't recognize the house. She remembers the house near us that she lived in for 40+ years and thinks she just sold that one 3 mos ago and never got paid. It was sold 7 years ago. If you rent it, you will have the extra added work of repairs (and fixing anything they damage) and the headache of collecting rent and handling evictions if they don't pay. The POA allows you to take care of her finances that is in her best interest. You are POA for a reason. If she has dementia, she can't think with a clear head anymore. And the "I want to go home" doesn't stop no matter where she is. They are searching for familiarity and even with that, they don't often recognize it. Save yourself the grief and aggravation and just sell the house. My 2 cents worth.

If you decide to go the rental route, can I recommend using a property management company that is located in the same city as the house. Yes you give up 10 to 15% of the rent, but they deal with everything. They make sure that the potential tenants are vetted, they make sure that the proper insurance is in place and they take care of getting the house ready for the next tenant, if needed.

We ended up with a house in a different city and we found it was quite lovely to get the rent check every month, maybe a notice that the a/c was being given it's annual service and next months check would reflect the payment for that service. We also required that we be named insured on the policy of the renter, meaning we got payment for insurance claims against the property not them. We required large pet deposit and raised the rent 10% monthly and required a pet policy. People that complained, lived elsewhere. It was not in our best interest to not require that our property was protected from them. Tenants can cause a tremendous amount of damage and if you don't require them to insure their actions, your insurance won't pay for it.

So, handled properly, it could create a monthly income.

Hire the property management company that has the reputation of being tough, they protect their homeowners. We spoke with realtors to get this information.

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. They have been very helpful, and I truly appreciate each of you for taking the time to respond to my issue. I feel like we have a better handle on how to take care of this, and I think everything will work out fine (crossing fingers and toes!)

Jen, hoping everything goes smoothly. Keep us up-to-date.

I forgot to add that when I was doing all the cleaning out of my friend's condo, I never said a word to the husband that I was doing this. I never brought up their condo once I got them into the memory care apartment I had found for them. The day of the move, another friend took them out for breakfast and then to have their nails done. The movers and I set up their new apartment to look just like the bedroom and den of their condo with all the same furniture arranged the same way. There was no hesitation on their part when they saw their familiar furniture arranged the way they always knew it to be. This was now "home". I didn't hesitate to do all the necessary signing for the transfer of ownership. Much easier this way. I figured the less said, the better. No questions, no stonewalling, no doubts. Neither ever brought up the idea of going back home and I wasn't about to put it in their minds by saying anything about it. Just do it and don't feel guilty.

I wanted to come back and update. We were able to sell my mom's home with the POA. We did tell her about it and she agreed it was the best thing to do...keep in mind that we have had a buyer ready for the last year who has been very patient letting us get her stuff out of the house (7 hours away). But, one day she remembers we talked about it and sold it and the next she is angry that we did and doesn't remember us talking about it. So we aren't going to bring it up anymore. If she does, we'll be truthful, and depending on the day she'll be ok with it or angry. Anyhooo...it's done. Thank you to everyone who took the time to give me advice or just was there to sympathize!!! I appreciate every one of you.

Disgustedtoo,

Wow, very possibly related :) !!! It will feel so good after all of this is done....

Read the fine print in your POA. If it states that you have the right to enter into contracts on behalf of your Mother, then you can AS LONG AS IT IS FOR HER BENEFIT.

Your Mother, even though she gave you POA, she is still considered a PROTECTED PERSON. Meaning, if she is still competent to make decisions, your POA means nothing to sell the house. Your POA can be taken away from you IF THE COURT FEELS YOU ARE NOT DOING THINGS FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR MOTHER.

Using a POA in situations like this has you on a very thin line.

Even though I have every right to do things in my Mother's stead like selling her house, I MUST GO THROUGH MY ATTORNEY WITH THE CONTRACT, THEN THE COURT AND THE COURT MUST APPROVE. This is the Court's way to make sure I'm not running off with Mom's money.

Make sure you have an attorney write up the contract, have the Court review with the attorney so that the proper verbiage is being used, the price is acceptable by the Court. The Court will approve or disapprove the offer. If the Court approves, you're free to sell.

I will be dealing with this as soon as I get through the asset divorce I had to file to get rid of stepsiblings
who have tried, succeeded a few times but I'm working on that, from trying to BK my Mom. They're pissed because my Mom had the home/money before their Dad married my Mom. Sole/separate property is the law of the State and they don't like that Daddy isn't going to benefit should my Mom pass before he does. Mom was smart enough not to place him on her investments or the house!

Sorry, I had not read that you were successful.

Glad you were able to get it done.

Good luck with what is ahead.

I just returned from Mom's home yesterday clearing more things and brought a load of things to a storage shed here. Home for about 2 hours, and Mom showered and washed her hair and we were relaxing in the living room. She started being almost unresponsive...called 911, and she was taken to the ER.... she had mild stroke affecting her peripheral vision and short term memory.... she cannot remember anything short term.... repeatedly asked same questions, pulling IV's and lines off ..... definitely going to push for rehab to start with... and her house on hold for now.

Took the "tripod" dog whose other back leg was not functioning now to be put to sleep this morning. Long day...