My mother needs to sell her home. She is living with me. She refuses to sign the contract and we have a buyer. Do I use POA & not tell her?

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My mother needs to sell her home. She is living with me. She refuses to sign the contract and we have a buyer. Do I use POA & not tell her?

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Her home is out of state and she is afraid if she sells her house she will "have nothing." We have been moving her things up to our house, and she has been aware that the reason we were doing this was to sell her home. When the time actually came to sign the contract, she down right refused. I can use the POA to sell it. Do I do so and not tell her? She will be SO upset and angry if I tell her the truth.

Care Decisions Elder Law Power of Attorney (POA)

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Is your Mom competent? If yes, than the POA cannot sign.

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Perhaps step back and get your mother to comprehend (if that's possible depending on her mental competence) that she needs to make the right decision. I can't imagine how difficult it would be for an elder to take such a huge step, even one that's necessary.

Walk her through her finances, keeping the house versus the money she'd have by selling it. Talk about her care requirements and the cost, and how that sale money would help her with her care expenses. Present financial options to safely keep her money.

Ask for her opinion on how she would handle the expenses. Be supportive. I think people that age recall tough financial times of past decades and are fearful. Good luck!

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Thank you. We've done all of that and she knows deep down that selling it is the right thing to do. But her heart tells her otherwise. We will try again to get her to sign. It is upsetting to her and I hate to upset her.

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Jenorama, sometimes we need to use "therapeutic fibs" to help our parent understand what is in their best interest.

You can say that you read [remember this is a fib] that later in the year the housing market is going to stall out, and selling maybe impossible. Better to catch the market now, especially if there is a willing buyer outside your front door.

I was thinking about telling your Mom it is not good to leave a house vacant, etc. but then your Mom might say "move me back to my house".

Since you have financial Power of Attorney, you could step in and represent your Mom in the real estate transaction. This is in Mom's best interest to sell now. And if you feel that Mom wouldn't understand a real estate contract then that gives you a better reason to use the POA.

When my Dad was ready to sell his house, he was still able to understand the Listing Agreement and the Contract. By the time settlement came about, a month or so later, Dad was happy the house sold, but he didn't want to go to settlement [he would have fallen asleep] so I represented Dad at settlement.

Keep us updated.

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I will, and thank you for your response.

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If she is "of sound mind" and can make decisions then you can not sign for her as POA
If she has been declared incompetent then yes you can complete the sale.

Or you could tell her that this "nice young family would love to raise their children in the house that she raised hers" They love the house and love the neighborhood. And they love the flower garden she put in years ago.

Also mention to her that it is costing more money to keep the house empty. You are still paying property taxes, heating, insurance, possibly other utility services that are not being used.

Another option. Would she be willing to "rent" the property? If so could the contract be a "rent to own" and over the course of a year her decision making abilities may change dramatically so you would e able to sell using your POA.

All these hinge on the fact that you can reason with her, that she understands. If not then use your POA or obtain Guardianship. (but I can tell you selling property when you have guardianship is a p in the @ss...been there done that and not easy)

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... she has been aware that... we were doing this ... to sell her home.

Mmm. Thing is, she didn't agree, did she? And JoAnn is right - if your mother is not legally incompetent, your power of attorney cannot override her decision and you had no right to put the house on the market, much less to agree a price or close the deal.

So upset and angry, yes, I know this is incredibly hard. And I'm sorry she doesn't like it, although if I were you I'd point out that far from having nothing she'll have a lovely fat wodge of cash in the bank. But, okay, so what's her better idea? She doesn't have to like the realities, but they apply to her as much as to anyone else. What does she want to do?

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When she decided to move to our home, which is in another state, HER decision, she told us that the gal across the street from her wanted to buy her house so her daughter could live across the street from her. So, that's what we have been working towards. Over the last two years (Mom's house is 7 hours away) my husband has been going down and bringing her belongings up to our house. Now it's pretty much empty and the gal across the street has been more than patient - we have a contract that she refuses to sign. She says that maybe she should just move back home. I don't know what to do. I guess we'll try to get her to sign it, just keep pushing it and upsetting her.

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You need to check the state law in the state the house is in. The POA May have to say that you can sell the house. And POA doesn’t give you the ability or the right to go against your mother, if she’s still competent and can make her own decisions, you can’t undermine her.

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Believe me, the last thing I want to do is undermine her. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

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There’s more to this than her “I’ll have nothing”. Selling the house eliminates any possibility of going back to her old life... likely when she was younger and better health. It’s not the house; it’s the life she had in it. It’s hard for her to accept the life she has now. She may feel old and dependent. To her it may feel like a death.

Remind her there’s still good times ahead and can make even more great memories with you now. That her life isn’t over and it doesn’t have to be downhill from here.

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I do understand her hesitation completely. She and Dad literally built the house with their own two hands. He was a carpenter. We'll get this worked out, thank you for your response. I just don't want to upset her.

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Tread very carefully as there could be serious issue from her refusal.

when listing agreement done, who signed off as seller with Realtor?
Usually if it’s a POA involved, the realty group will review the POA to see if it gives you full financial authority to do whatever on mom’s behalf. If that the case, you can sign and get it sold.

Now If it was your mom who signed listing, and she refused to sign off on Act of Sale documents, and this was after negotiations on sale & with earnest $ put up, the potential buyer can seek remedy from your mom as the seller & owner of the property. It would be an “opportunity lost” type of action which at worst scenario places a lien on the property for the amount of $ “lost”. Like buyer sold their home and as they could not move into your mom’s, had to rent or stay in hotel or they missed the start of school and had to place kids in private school or pay out of district fees. Or their mortgage co raised interest if deal not done within 30 days. Your not in state to necessarily get the lawsuit or go to court, so lien gets placed.

Also the Realtors will be peeved. They took on the listing in good faith and mom has exhibited bad faith. That property could well find itself redlined by other agents. It will be a beast to sell it.

Also if she has moved to your state, the tax assessor will find out & property taxes will eventually catch up to this knowledge - that the property is not her homestead- and increase dramatically. Ditto for insurance on it as her homeowners policy will be invalid. She will need to get a vacant dwelling policy & they aren’t cheap and kinda limited to being just a fire policy.

Should mom stay all not gonna sign, and should she need LTC in a NH, and neither she nor you have the $$$ to private pay, that property in another state will keep her from being eligible for Medicaid. For LTC Medicaid their home is an exempt asset BUT ONLY IF it’s their primary homestead in the state they are applying in.

These are all valid concerns. Please, please Try to make her understand the seriousness that her stubbornness can morph into.

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We aren't going through a realtor. The neighbor across the street is buying it so her daughter can live across the street from her. So it's just a lawyer and the title company. They have been more than patient letting us get the house cleared out. Her house is 7 hours away so it has taken a bit of time, but now we have a contract that she won't sign. BTW, she is the one who told us that her neighbor wanted to buy her house so....ugh. We will try to get her to sign the contract again. Just keep pushing it until she does. Which will upset her so much, but I don't know what else to do.

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How is your POA worded? What are the triggering clauses which will enact your authority?

Do you have the number of letters from doctors. Or others, which are stated in the triggering clauses, allowing you to enforce POA? If not, you need to have those to protect yourself.

You know that when your loved one passes, the POA is no,longer in effect.

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I think The doctors letters are to put a DPOA into effect in the event the patient is no longer of sound mind or able to communicate. That doesn't sound to be the case here.

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I had to get two letters of incapacity before using my POA. Your state could be different.

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In Ohio at least, it states in the POA when it goes into affect. With ours the financial was immediate but the Medical is diagnosed with dementia or incapacitated according to two doctors. But they still go by it except for her DNR, they ask her that.

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My husband is POA for his brother, and the POA document is very comprehensive in what it allows him to do--which includes real estate transactions. Brother's house recently had to be sold to provide continued funding for his NH bills. My husband is the one who signed the listing agreement (as POA) with the real estate agent, and he handled all steps in the transaction. He did have to provide copies of the POA at several stages in the process, an din fact needed to submit the original withthe raised notary seal to the registry of deeds (which was returned to him). His brother is mentally competent and knew the house neded to be sold, so the situation is slightly diffrent, but nowhere in the process did brother have to sign anything nor did he have to be declared incompetent. As others have noted, POAs are written in varying ways, but I didn't realize that states varied in how POAs operate.

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She is more than mentally competent, she is just being stubborn. We will get it taken care of. I just am not sure how honest to be sometimes with her as I don't want to upset her. Thank you for your feedback. I am new to this, she has been with us around two years now and things have been going well but she is digging her heels in on this one. I don't blame her, but if the house continues to remain vacant it will "go to pot" and then she really will have nothing.

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Would she sign a POA specific to real estate? That would handle any potential issues.

Have you presented the title agency a copy of your POA to know if they will even accept it?

I sold a piece of property for my dad and it was in another state and they have specific requirements for what type of POA can be accepted and I had to get a signature on the form they sent. It took months waiting for a good day.

I was very sparse in what I told my dad, he pretends to understand and is working very hard to not have dementia, which means he argued about things that were beneficial to him and shouldn't have caused concern.

I would tell her that the value will continue to go down because an empty house deteriorates from no use. Plus what happens if a critter gets in?

Focus on how good she will feel to have that money available to help her and allow her to do as she would like, to a degree.

Best of luck. I would be relentless in getting her agreement, one less headache for you.

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I appreciate your feedback. We have discussed the fact that since the house is vacant it will eventually "go to pot" and she doesn't want that to happen. We have been going back and forth bringing her items up for the last two years. In the mean time, her across the street neighbor has been more than patient letting us get everything moved (Mom's house is 7 hours away from us, she is living with us) as she wants to buy it for her daughter. Mom has been more than ok with it, she was happy that a friend would be living in her home and not a total stranger. We have discussed that she won't "have nothing" when she sells the house, she will have a nice fat bank account. It's all been good until the actual contract was executed. Then she dug her heels in. We'll get it worked out. Thanks again.

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I agree that if your mom is mentally competent, you cannot do anything ... legally.

If your mom is mentally incompetent, you still have to look at your PoA document. Not all PoAs are written the same way, so please read it carefully or have the attorney who created it to review it or hire another lawyer to do so. Your PoA doc must specifically say you have the authority to sell the house. If not, you cannot sell it.

I suggest talk to an eldercare attorney.

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The cost of keeping the house will be high. Is mom competent? If so, you cannot go against her wishes. If she is competent call an insurance company to ask about cost of a policy to insure a vacant house. I went through this with mine. My insurance cost skyrocketed when I no longer lived there, and it was following a fire. The only policy I could get was from a high risk company. Payment escalated from $1,400 a year to over $4,000 a year. Some of the increase was attributable to the fire, but not all of it.

Maybe you can persuade mom if you present her with the costs. But, as mentioned, could backfire and she would want to return home.

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Excellent suggestion!

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Awww so sad it is so hard for them to give up their home they already gave up so much its like a mourning process for every bit of independence that that lose...now the house I do not know what to say but it was not easy to get her to sell eaither ..wish i had more for you speak to lawyer

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A warning, if mom should need Medicaid within the next five years the house must be sold at market value.

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Jenorama, the thing about your DPOA being in effect wants a bit of untangling.

The financial element came into effect immediately, yes, in the it allows you to act on your mother's behalf as her representative. So she can make the decisions and you do the running around and signing, that's fine - your signature can be accepted pp your mother's. But, then time moves on and you get to the point where she can no longer make decisions - she is mentally incapacitated/legally incompetent - and at *that* time your DPOA allows you to act on her behalf but without her authorisation, in her best interests, and as far as practicable in line with her consistent, established preferences. It seems you haven't got to point B yet.

You say that she is "more than" mentally competent. Mm. In that case, you cannot make these decisions without her consent. There is a but to this, though. If she is more than mentally competent, then she has to act like it, same as everyone else. She changed her mind when it came to the signature. As a consenting adult, she must now justify that change of mind and explain her better idea.

I know you don't want to upset her, and I know these discussions can be stressful and painful, but your mother expects to be treated like an adult. So - do. You call it stubborn? I call it breaking her word and creating serious inconvenience to others. Does she consider that an acceptable way for anyone to behave?

Does she herself know and like this neighbour who'd like to buy the place for her daughter?

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Yes, and she was the one who told us that the neighbor wanted to buy her home. She is friends with her. We will just have to get her to sign the contract obviously. So we will. It will be unpleasant, but it has to be done.

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Thank you all for your feedback. We will just have to keep bringing it up and get her to sign the contract. This is so hard. Oh well.

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It's a shame it's so far away. I was just wondering: if you make a little celebration handover event of the thing, and invite neighbour (and daughter if mother likes her, too), any mileage in that? Bitter sweet rite of passage type thing, if you see what I'm getting at.

She gave her word, she likes the people, and if the worst ever should come to the *very* worst... there are other houses.

Poor mother. Saying goodbye to important bits of your life is hard, and God knows I hate moving house as much the next person; but c'est la vie. Next chapter, let's hope it's a great one!

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We'll just keep plugging on. Thank you for your feedback.

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Unfortunately, even with a POA, a bank may not honor it. My MIL had Alzheimers and when my husband, who had the POA, drove a couple of hundred miles to the closing, the bank said they wouldn't proceed unless him mother was there to sign the papers. They refused to adhere to the POA. So my husband had to go get his mother from her care facility, drive her there and she had to sign the papers without a clue as to what they were. Every time they asked her to sign, she looked at my husband and asked if she should sign it. I'm not sure why the bank wouldn't honor the POA since MIL's real attorney was present also. So before going that route, you might want to check with the bank or mortgage company to be sure they will honor yours.

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Good idea. Thank you.

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If the House is in Mom's Name...Ohh, What Shame...No, You cannot so Anything But Pray she signs on that Dotted Line or Push her Hand where you Stand, To SIGN.
Your POA won' Help you unless YOUR NAME is on IT ALL...Have a Ball. I am So Sorry......

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Jenorama,

Your situation is almost identical to our situation. Mom "gently" moved into my house 2 years ago for a short vacation here, which gradually turned into 2 years. We both know this is better for her, and she has finally agreed to list her house with a family friend/realtor.... but we still have to "go through things" and "prepare" it to sell, actually list it; and I am just dreading going there to do the clearing.

Mom and Dad lived in there home since the early 60's and while they didn't build it, Dad did lots of projects around the house, so it's very sentimental to Mom. Dad passed away 15 yrs ago and all the neighbors have sold and moved.

I am the POA and will have to read it again for all the points brought up in the comments below. I just kind of dread having to go to her home three hours away and start this process, and cannot wait till it's all done, and worried she may do something similar as your mother.

Wish you well and that your mom agrees soon. Big hugs to you!

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Thank you. She physically moved here two years ago, and hasn't been back to her house since. She likes it here but is very attached to the house. Thanks for the hugs! I needed that!

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Well if she is the one that has to sign on the line, then it's obvious she is competent to do so. However, it's her choice to sign or not to sign. Sometimes many people have had mistaken my grandma at 101 as being an incompetent woman and she was smart smart!!!! You should never have to trick or go behind someone's back to accomplish things. I know dealing with an elderly person's reasoning and ration can be difficult, but it can be done. You have to understand from her point what she feels like she is losing or ask her what she is feeling and try to relate why she doesn't want to sell the house. It sounds like fear. How old is your mom and do you have siblings that can help you talk to mom?

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No siblings. We'll get it done. We really thought she would be happy to sign the paperwork, and were surprised when she balked. It's been the plan for two years - when she moved here to live with us. She was the one who was all for it. I do understand her attachment to her house. They literally built it with their own two hands (he was a carpenter). She is smart, but forgets that we talked about something quite often. We sat at the table for three hours with the contract and she dug her heels in and said she would have nothing if she sells it. Oh well. We'll try again. I just didn't know what would be better for her...upset her tremendously by "forcing" her to sign the paperwork or just sell it. Obviously judging by the comments I've received so far it was shameful to even think of doing it "behind her back".

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Have to get to work, so couple thoughts:
When sick a couple years back I watched Property Bros constantly. Recalling that when a couple was buying a house, what convinced the seller to accept the offer was a heartfelt note from the potential buyers...and maybe after they had moved in they invited the prior owner back to visit? Maybe that would help?
Also...I had a wonderful client whose house was a hidden treasure in a wooded area...the views out the windows of trees etc were so precious and she had moved in with her husband because of it years back. He was gone. Her health was diminishing...she couldn't stay...and when speaking with her daughter she loved the idea I suggested...of taking pictures of the views out the windows that could be blown up and put in her new place. Not the same...but the best that could be done under the circumstances. Legally, you've heard from others...

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Thank you. I appreciate your thoughts.

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Jenorama, do you have the POA because your Mom isn't actually competent to make these choices? If you do have the power of attorney and the money is now needed to go toward your Mom's ongoing care, and if your Mom is incompetent to make the decision you will have to explain it gently and tell her it is not up for argument, that you cannot care for the house from another place. She won't like it. After you tell her you don't have to keep talking about it, but just do it. If she is, however, competent to make the decision then she will have to be the one to make it. Sadly. Because a house with no one there, no upkeep, will deteriorate very quickly and you said below she has been with you for 3 years. Yes, she will be upset and angry, and at the end of our lives it is all about loss. At 76 I have seen that for a long time now. One loss after another. But that is the sad truth. It is not anyone's "fault". Just a fact. So sorry for all the pain.

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Thank you. We'll get it done. I appreciate your response. I am so sorry for your losses.

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When my sister and I moved our parents from PA to OH, we sold the house to the next door neighbor. We knew they were interested in acquiring properties around their own to rent out, so I offered it to them and they accepted. Our parents were happy with it, and my mother occasionally asks about the house. My sister and I visit the area independently each year, and I can report back that the former neighbor (with whom we are friends) rents it out very carefully, and from what I have seen the house looks "happy" although I haven't been inside. That seems to satisfy her. My sister has POA, and we had no legal issues--it was essentially a matter of getting a check and then my sister and I along with the neighbor going up to the county offices to complete the deal. It's almost 6 years later, but I believe the neighbor had a lawyer who facilitated this. It can all go so smoothly if everyone is cooperative, particularly when it is simply done between seller and buyer with no agent needed. (I offered it at a price slightly less that I would have listed it because no agency was involved.)

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That's essentially what we are doing. No realtor, and it is a cash sale. Hopefully it will go well, and it would be even better if we could get her on board with it!

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I don't consider it "going behind her back" to use your POA to get the sale done. She is having an understandably emotional struggle with saying goodbye to a house that was so symbolic of her life. My uncle and aunt built their home with their own hands and even their CHILDREN had a very hard time selling it after they were gone. But, you have to make the hard, practical choices with her best interests in mind. Maybe just having a less transactional conversation about it might help; one that assumes that the sale will happen, but not making her confront it. Something like, "It's so hard to part with the house that you and dad built. I'm really struggling with it, but I'm so glad you're here with us." Don't make her get into the nitty gritty of the transaction, but be transparently vague about the fact that the sale is happening. Not easy to do, but may be the kindest thing.

As POA for my dad, I've had similar situations where I've had to keep things a little fuzzy, without actually lying, to avoid making an inevitable situation more painful than it had to be.

Good luck to you.

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Thank you so much!!! You understand. That's a great idea to just assume it's going to happen, and your thoughts on how to approach it sound as if they may work with her. I love her so much and hate to see her upset, but she would be even more upset if the house sat empty and something happened to it rendering it worthless. Thank you again for your comments.

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I agree with others who said it depends on state law. In general, the person using the POA is the agent of the person who granted it. If you don't like what your agent is doing in your name, and you're competent, then you fire the agent. So mom could pull the plug on your authority at any time. Can you get an elder mediator/counselor in to help forge a path? Seems like you were proceeding in good faith, and mom wasn't living in her house (or was she? did she think she was just visiting you - or moving in with you?), she saw you moving her things out, and never told you to stop, so you THOUGHT you had her agreement. Classic passive-aggressive: "I never said yes," "Ah, but you never said no, either." A mediator might help her to see that it is in her own best interest to sell the house, and that the proceeds will go to her future care needs.

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Yes, she has been living with us for the past two years. All of her personal belongings and some smaller pieces of furniture are here along with her household items. She was the one who told us that her neighbor was interested in buying her house for her daughter to live in. She doesn't want to rent it out, she doesn't want it to "go to pot" and she shouldn't live there on her own. She is forgetful about taking her pills and feels like she shouldn't drive anymore. She was forgetting doctors appointments, etc. She's sharp as a tack mostly, but her short term memory is not good. Thank you for the idea of a mediator...we'll keep that in mind.

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I agree with Kathy4177. Check with bank & If using a title company check with them.

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Yes. You cant leave those people on hold while mom decides everything should stop bc she changed her mind.

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My mother needs to sell her home. She is living with me. She refuses to sign the contract and we have a buyer. Do I use POA & not tell her?

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