Mother has Alzheimer’s- father has a new girlfriend and spending joint account. Should I say something?

Wonder1, yes tell your Step-brother what is going on. You are correct, a few hundred grand in the bank can go quickly if your Step-Dad isn't paying attention to his spending. It would be sad if it were your Mom was very fugal so they could have a good retirement.... and now Step-Dad is using that money for a girlfriend.

As you probably already know, those 55+ communities are expensive. Not only is Step-Dad paying a mortgage or rent, there is also HOA fees.... and he is also paying for room, board, and care for your Mom, such costs are around $6-10k per month. Ask Step-Dad what would he do if there isn't enough money to continue with Assisted Living/Memory Care? He would have to do the 24-hour care himself once again.

I would ask Step-Dad if the shoe were on the other foot and it was him who was in Assisted Living/Memory Care..... how would he feel if your Mom decided to get a boyfriend where she was paying his bills and going on vacation, from money that Step-Dad had worked had to save.

I can see Step-Dad having an evening out with a lady friend, but vacations should be a no-no, even more so with the covid virus. Even if he had his shots, he can still get a case of covid but the shot would keep him from passing away.

I don't know. He deserves a life too. Joint funds means money should be spent on BOTH sides, not just for your mom's huge monthly expenses. Why is it ok to spend 10k or whatever a month for her care but not ok for dad to have vacations, and to hell with Covid already. He's a grown man and old enough to decide if and when he feels it's safe to go on a vacation! He can STILL drop dead of the virus even WITH the jabs, so he may as well live his life, that's my motto. Plus, you didn't mention he's planning 20k trips to Bora Bora in a lagoon villa for 3 weeks either.

By all means, tell your brother what's going on bc he's the executor for both. But obviously dad's been upfront about everything since you know all his plans and what he's spending money on; he's not being secretive about anything. Then maybe you all 3 can talk about his plans to pay for mom's future care AND his plans to finance his own life. Then you may feel more comfortable with the plans in general. Perhaps he'll agree to compromise by no longer paying any of the girlfriends medical bills, that's what I'd shoot for if it were me. Leave the vacations alone.

Good luck to you! I hope it all works out!

I'm thinking it's time to cease the joint account & have separate finances.

I would tell the executor. Maybe a tactful convo regarding future planning can be held with StepDad? About getting professional elder financial advice, maybe to set up new accounts: Mom's share, StepDad's share (split into bills & thrills). Having professional input may keep trust & avoid bad tensions... and hopefully prevent any elder abuse...

Why are old men so stupid? Clearly this girlfriend is using him but it is ok because he us getting some. At his age he should be ashamed at being such a nit wit to fall for the old sex for money nonsense. After his 6th wife died my FIL at 77 started prowling facebook for young things and got suckered in by a scam artist and lost 100,000 cash and lost his house so another 150,000 because he didn't pay his mortgage so he could send her money. He also had another younger woman local he was giving money to for home repairs and even financed a new roof for her. Now he lives in a ramshackle looking house while he brings in almost 6000 in monthly income so he can keep giving money to these women.

This isn’t unusual behavior. It can create heartache for everyone.

I see both sides but I am skeptical of a relationship that begins this way.

This is tough for the family. Best wishes to you and your family.

SD deserves a life too. If he is competent he has the legal right to spend money how he wants. Maybe a consult with an elder law attorney would be a good idea. Mom and SD should plan for what happens when mom's care has used all the money?

Will she need Medicaid? Then what about SD? Where will be go? Get ED and bro with an elder law attorney to plan and to understand the options available to them.

Only your mother's financial PoA has any power here. An executor dispenses the assets left in a Last Will once someone is dead. Only a PoA or legal guardian has authority to speak and act for the living. Who is your mother's PoA? Is it your step-dad?

The danger here is that your SD will mismanage their money so that your mother won't qualify for Medicaid. This will be a BIG problem (for both of them) because -- if he runs out of money -- unless "someone" puts up the money every month for her care, she will need to leave and be cared for by a relative at home, because there won't even be funds for in-home care. This is if she does not qualify for Medicaid AND assuming the facility even accepts Medicaid residents.

If your step-dad is your mother's PoA and he is spending their money unwisely, I suggest you convince him to join you for a consult with an elder law attorney who will let him know in no uncertain terms the train wreck that he may be creating. If your SD refuses to deal with this, then may you may need to pursue guardianship of your mother through the courts. One thing to keep in mind is that Medicaid rules differ in every state, so if you live out of state from them, you will need to speak to an attorney for their state.

I'd like to side comment that my husband is from a blended family. There can often be issues in such families since they don't have a life-long history together, and especially if the step-parent has children from a prior marriage. Lack of transparency by the step-dad can create suspicions and concerns that are unfounded. BUT, since you don't seem to even know the difference between a PoA and an executor of an estate, I think you need to get more info to answer your posted question, starting with: who is your mother's PoA? If it is no one, it's too late for her to assign someone, and guardianship by either her family member or the county/state is the only other solution.

To tell the truth this isn't worth worry about. If your Mom's care is upwards of 20,000 a month, and your Dad is in care as well, then SHE is the one spending up most of their money. An even division of assets after a court fight would be her ending up with less than a year's worth of funds. Were you talking millions and many cruises and gambling habit and scammers, then I would suggest you try to get guardianship WITH THE EVIDENCE YOU WOULD NEED (and you would need a LOT of it) and get division of assets. But sadly you are talking several hundred thousand, which in case of two people will not go far in providing expensive care. The money will be gone for BOTH of them soon enough.
Do discuss this with the step brother. He is not POA I assume and step dad is not demented, so there is zero he can do. His duties don't come into play until there is the death of the two, and by that time it is clear there will be NO ASSETS left, if things continue. There is little enough to worry about were they both to pass today. But speak to him just in terms of what he may think about this, has he any input, what does he think.

One of the strongest emotions a community spouse may experience is loneliness. Loneliness can be described as the difference between what one desires and what one actually experiences.

After 3 ½ years since my wife's death, the overriding emotion I still experience is not sadness, grief has run its course, and certainly no guilt, but loneliness. Holding hands, snuggling, just being together, all the simple things in life can be a driving force in finding a surrogate companion to satisfy those needs. We all need social connections. Upon visiting my wife in MC one day, I found her walking hand in hand with another resident. I was taken back at first, but then realized she was in MC. Even she needed companionship.

Sp19690 sees spending money on other women as being stupid or incompetent. Finding someone else to hold hands with in your later years isn't stupid or incompetent. It's a primal need for companionship.

Your dad and mom being joint account holders allows dad to spend as much of it as he wishes. If you're uncomfortable with the situation, and I know you are, you don't have to let it go you can mention it to him, but by all means don't get argumentative, you'll be the loser. You could say that you are uncomfortable with his new relationship, but that you understand his loneliness and his need for a friend. You say he took care of your mom and I assume he was a good dad also, so mention that also. Mention it to him if you need to, but don't discourage his need for a surrogate companion.

You need to protect Moms part of the assets. See a lawyer well versed in Medicaid.

I don't see that OP is disparaging SD for having a girlfriend, only that he is potentially spending too much money on her. The argument that mother is "spending" so much on her place is irrelevant. She isn't out blowing it on a piece of tail, it is a NECESSITY. IF her share were to cover medical costs for heart surgery, would it be considered "spending" it in the same sense that SD is spending it on a supposed GF? If he was alone and had that money and wanted to blow it all on the GF, I'd feel sorry for him, but hey, if he's competent (even though he's thinking with the little brain!!!), then have at it. One can try explaining how this might impact his future years, but Que Sera dude!

A few 100 grand in the savings isn't going to support her needs, HIS needs and this GFs needs for long. Depending on what kind of vacas the GF is trying to weasel out of him, they may cost MORE than the LTC mom is getting.

IMO, he wants companionship, he can have it. He wants to go on vacations, he can go, but he NEEDS to be aware that if he blows through all this money and either his wife OR he needs care and there's no money, it isn't likely they will qualify for Medicaid. I don't think multiple expensive vacations are considered qualified "spend down" items...

Certainly OP can talk to the SB, but understand that executor means absolutely nothing at this stage of the game, and at the rate his father is going, there likely won't be anything to "execute". If you can enlist him to get on board and understand the jeopardy his dad might be putting his wife and himself into, perhaps he will work with you? If he blows it all and then needs a place to stay, is SB on board with taking him in? I'd place a small bet saying NOPE, he isn't interested in that!

We don't know what your relationships were during this marriage, was it before emancipation or after? Did you grow up some together? Did you get along then and do you now?

If SB isn't willing to listen or work with you and SD is also not willing to listen, then by all means, you should look into taking control over your mother's affairs. It will take a bit of time and money with an EC attorney, but if you file for guardianship, the assets should be split in such a way that her needs will be covered and he would have some for his own needs. I would consider asking for an emergency guardianship. He can blow through that 200G in no time, then who will pay for mom's care? If the courts can freeze some or most of the assets, then once the court makes a decision and splits the assets, he can go blow it all if he wants. I too am figuring he's going to be in for a world of hurt, emotionally, and financially. She'll likely dump him faster than you can say paper or plastic, once the money dries up.***

Your mother would be the victim here, if nothing is done. At least half of that 200G should be set aside for her, along with whatever income she currently has (SS only?) That might get her another year+ depending on the cost. Hopefully she's also on hospice, which will provide supplies like briefs, wipes, medical equipment.

***Sorry sjplegacy - I can agree with your assessment about need for companionship and all that, however, in this case the wife ISN'T legally dead. I could *NEVER* at any age become involved with a man who has a wife, disabled or not. I also wouldn't want to take away from the funds that will be needed for her care, or be with a man who thinks so little of it all that he'd be willing to blow it all on me, leaving his beloved wife up the creek! I wouldn't want him paying my way anyway, I am quite self-sufficient to pay my own way, if I really wanted to tag along with him, despite his marriage.

Sorry to have a jaded view of this "other" woman, but unless she's just an empty headed bimbo, she's in this for what she can get and then she'll hit the highway, burning rubber on the way out.

Your stepfather was a caregiver for many year’s , he deserves a vacation . Caregiving is hard work , extremely hard , he probably gave up a lot to care for her needs .Talk to the stepbrother , and maybe explain the situation .If the situation was reversed , what would you tell your mom , if she was planning vacations?If they both contributed to the funds , maybe they can split the money .

I'd hire an attorney to put a freeze on half the assets. That way mom has her half to go as far asit can to pay for her care and s/dad can blow his part on new woman if he so chooses. Their money may sound substantial, but so are medical and facility costs. Should he happen to blow through it by supporting lady friend, Medicaid penalties can come in to play if he runs out of money due to gifting it away. You might mention gifting to his son so he doesn't let dad go too crazy with the funds

I don't know what state you are in but in PA Medicaid looks at the last 5 years of financials . My FIL went into skilled nursing 2 years ago. Assets were split 50/50. We had to spend down his 50 % then Medicaid decided what he should pay for his care after considering MIL living expenses. I was made their POA for both of them even though they are of sound mind.This made handling his care expenses and helping her maintain her current life activities much easier. There may be someone at the facility your mother is in that can help. Most likely if SD spends funds frivolously mom will not be eligible for Medicaid. Good luck this is a tough situation.

I understand your concerns, but if dad is in is upper 80's is there much of a chance that the vacations you are talking about ever get past the "planning" stage? I'm in my 50's and travel planning takes a toll on me...could it possibly be these are pie-in-the-sky plans that will never come to anything? For a while briefly, my mom had been talking about going on a cruise with us, but then when I asked her about logistics - for example, "mom, how are you going to be able to navigate getting into the bathroom", etc, those plans ended pretty quickly. If dad mentions these "vacations" to you again, you might want to ask him things like that.

How much money are we talking about with giving it to the new girlfriend? A few hundred dollars or thousands? If it's thousands of dollars, then I think your concerns are warranted, but if it's only a relatively few bucks, then I wouldn't get overly worked up about it.

If he took and is still taking good care of mom by having her in a good facility, paying the bill and visiting once in awhile, let it go.

They worked hard to have what they do and I am sure that they planned for a very different retirement than they got. I, for one, would want my husband to find some joy in life if I was in your mom's place. I watched my grandpa lose his own life when my grandmother had a series of strokes that left her in full blown dementia from Friday to Monday. I would have been happy for him if he had found someone who he could have had some good, happy times with. Instead, I remember a very angry, then very sad man and that is worse than anything else I can imagine in your 80s.

If you believe that he is being taken for a financial fool by some gold digger, please, please speak with his son and help him not get wiped out but, if not, support him, because he obviously loved your mom, from your own words he has taken very good care of her.

If you alianate him, you could have problems with your mom unless you get guardianship, he is legal next of kin, and she is to far gone to have to deal with that kind of thing unnecessarily.

I would take him to lunch and verify that mom is not in a position of losing her care while he is traveling and then offer to help while he is gone. DO NOT assume that his new girlfriend has malicious intent, because not everyone has those issues and it may very well be that she has walked in his shoes and can offer true understanding and companionship.

As long as your mom is taken care of and not in danger of being transferred to a Medicaid facility as a ward of the state because of his actions, wish him well and ask for pictures.

Your stepfather has been prudent, responsible, and caring enough to care for your mother and provide for her for all these years, in sickness an in health, as well as amassing a tidy nest egg. He has provided her with a safe living situation and appropriate care as her condition advanced. I think you can have faith that he will continue to be prudent, and her needs will be met. The tragedy of ALZ is that as it progresses the person who has it is, for all intents and purposes, gone, while their spouses and family are left behind, lonely and stressed, with ongoing and heavy physical and financial responsibilities to them, And life left to live. I think as long as your mother is provided for, your stepfather is entitled to a life.

Even tho It probably wouldn't do you much good to mention it, you could let him know your concerns that you think half the money should be put in an account for the Care of your mom then any money spent would have to be accountable.

Your Step Father could find himself eventually on the streets after spending all his money on his new girlfriend and then the girlfriend would be gone too if it's just the money she's after.

You still have living to do at 80 and you said he was good and took care of your mom for years so I suppose it's nice that he gets a 2nd time around with his new friend.

Of course I wouldn't tell your mom even tho she would forget right after being told.

HAve you spoken with your Step brother to see if he's got any real concern? He will be the one to know how fast his Dad is going through the money.

Prayers

You should talk to an Attorney to see what your options are just in case.


you could let

As long as he has mental capacity, this is nobody’s business.

if he loses mental capacity, this is only your brother’s business

if your mom left something to you in her estate planning, you are not an heir until after she passes.

Lack of financial accountability can be a sign of Alzheimer's disease. The girlfriend may be scamming him or they can truly just be enjoying each other's company. Please get stepdad evaluated by a neurologist. If he has dementia of any type, Please contact an elder lawyer to put legal protections around dad and mom. Then, plan to take girlfriend to lunch - without dad - and explain his condition. At that lunch also explain what can and can not happen with "dad's money."

Not sure if the OP has been back to view the responses. Would be helpful to know from Wonder1 more details about the situation (like, who has PoA for the OP's mom, if anyone). Otherwise there's no point in continuing to post here, because it's all conjecture in the absence of facts.

It is not illegal for him to spend his own money. It is none of your business what he does.

I would consult a family attorney. I know my mother in laws care was $8K a month in a dementia unit, then there could be unpaid bills still in your father's name....who says dad's in his right mind too?

On the surface it sounds like he is clueless and exploiting funds belonging to your mom. Legally, if a joint account, he probably has a legal right to do what he is...but it's not right ethically/morally. I would find a certified elder law attorney and get some guidance. Maybe spin it in a different way to seem as if it is in both their interests (and paid for out of their funds) as far as other legal documents for review etc. Wishing you luck.

Whatever he does with money should make no difference to you or your siblings. Alzheimer’s care is very expensive. It is apparent that your mum is being cared for. “Dad” has a right to enjoy his life and share it with someone. He sounds like he’s been quite responsible and should not be treated like a child! One day you may be in the same position. How would you want to be treated?

What would happen if they run out of money? Does he have a backup plan and maybe that’s why he is fine with it. I would ask dad kindly without accusing him or questioning his spending habits if her long time care taken care of and if he has a plan. Spending a couple thousands for a trip should be fine because he should be able to enjoy his life before he gets to your mom’s stage but he might need a friendly reminder that he needs to remember that both he and your mom needs care as well.

As for the girlfriend, it seems like companionship but she should look into finding way to get care if he has to pay for her medical bills because his help is only temporary. I understand your POV that hundreds a thousands may seem like a lot in someone’s mind but not when it comes to something you need for long term plan and he might needs to create a plausible plan of action because they could be living for a long time and he might need to consider that he might not be able to care for three people long term.

so I would say let him have his fun and don’t question his life choices in that matter but maybe ask if there is a plan of action for both of their care if they were to live past 100 like if they have backup insurance if they run out of money.

Perhaps he needs to spend down their money to qualify her for Medicaid so he figures he is going to do it in a way that he can enjoy himself whlie at it. Seems like an open and honest discussion about what the plan is to ensure her care is what is needed.

Obviously, you should tell the executor of their estate what you know and let him handle it the way he sees fit.

Say something quick. The marriage vows says in sickness and in health and fill death we do part. Your mother is still alive and she is his first responsability. I understand where he is coming from but if he no longer wants this responsibility then get a divorce.

Who has financial POA? If you or your siblings have POA the yes, I would say something. Especially if your Mom's care depends on those finances.