My mother's car is excluded as an assets on her Medicaid Application. If I sell it after Medicaid is accepted, how is the money handled?

I qualified for MA as of Jan 1, 2014 and as I turn 65 in Dec, am now in a transition to Medicare still needing assistance with low income status. MA ended 11.30.14 and Medicare started 12.1.14. I had some unemployment that disqualified me for SNAP and help with Medicare for months of Nov and Dec. So I have to refill out the paperwork for medical, snap and QMB status with Medicare after Dec 29th to get help again. Can I sell my car before that date and use it for funeral & burial policy, or utilities up front (I rent) cable, dental Chiro treatments that are not allowed as not enough pain qualification etc. I understand if I give it to my kids, I will be penalized should I go into long term care, and if I sell it, money in bank can work against me as well.

kccollier9 This may sound harsh but maybe you can report the car stolen (if she is trying to get new title knowing your Mom owns the car and you have the title, then it is theft...right?) and your then your Aunt can't get the new title. I just have no patients for people who don't understand when someone is trying to help another person, and they just make things worse. You can ask the medicaid office about this. Being honest is no crime. If you have already started application process and you stated that the car is your Mom's asset, as of application, you did nothing wrong. All I can say is if it does get sold and your Mom does't get the money from the sale before or after approval the funds need to be spent on her. So I would tell your Aunt that if anyone sells the car the money needs to be given to your Mom and for true value. You need all records of this sale. Deposits, withdrawals etc.

oh, and we have moved her back to IL from TN, so she is pending Medicaid in IL

My mom is an IL resident but had a stroke in TN. Her vehicle was in TN and still is in TN at my aunt's house. We have applied for Medicaid but are still waiting for approval. My aunt is insistent on selling the vehicle and has advised that she plans to apply for abandoned title, since the car has been sitting at her house for a year now. I have asked her not to do anything with the car until my mom is Medicaid approved, but she is now getting agitated about the car being there and wants it gone. What are the repercussions of her transferring title and selling the vehicle before my mother is Medicaid approved? Thanks!

sorry one more thing..my sister in law knew about the 2 thousand( GUESS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT) that she could have in her checking account..i guess if medicaid finds out that my mom is not in the will than i guess they will not do nothing to my sister in law....my mom is in a nursing home(she has alzheimer) her with me in org..thanks for your help..its a shame that family has to be this way..my sister in laws husband tole me that if i would have left her in louisiana than all this would not have come up..she was not taking care of and no family was going visit her..i think i made the right choise...she is happy here and that is all that counts...

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR ADVISE AND ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS...

YES MY MOM DID LIVE IN THE SAME STATE AS HER HUSBAND...IT WAS FINE THAT HE COULD KEEP MY MOMS INCOME..BUT WHAT I DONOT UNDERSTAND IS THAT I JUST FOUND OUT A FEW MORE THINGS..1)MY MOTHER SIGN THIS PAPER"MEDICAID PROGRAM TRANSFER OF RESOURCES"FOR 36000.00..SO THIS IS WHY SHE IS SAYING THAT SHE COULD TRANSFER ALL THE MONEY..YES SHE WAS IN A COMMUNITY PROPERTY STATE..BUT WHEN MY MOTHER WHEN INTO THE NURSING HOME..HER HUSBAND(MY STEP DAD)WROTE UP ANOTHER WILL AND AND LEFT MY MOM NOTHING..(THEY ARE SAYING THAT MY MOM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THERE AT THE READING OF THE WILL BECAUSE SHE GOT NOTHING)..FROM THE CHECKING ACCOUNT BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WAS DIEING AND THEY DIDNOT WANT MEDICAID TO GET IT WHEN HE DIED.(I ..)2 IN APRIL MY SIL TOOK MY MOM TO THE BANK AND OPEN A CHECKING ACCOUNT UNDER HER NAME ONLY..HER SS CHECKS WERE PUT IN THERE(HE DID BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT SHE WAS GETTING NOTHING FROM THE CHECKING ACCOUNT)THAN THIS IS WHEN MY SISTER IN LAW STARTING TRANFER MONEY (SHE DID THIS ON LINE)FROM MY MOMS ACCOUNT TO THERE JOINT ACCOUNT TO A ACCOUNT THAT SHE OPEN UP IN HER DADS NAME ONLY AND THAN TO ANOTHER ACCOUNT UNDER HER NAME ONLY..I ASKED HER TO PUT MONEY BACK AND SHE SAID THAT SHE WOULD NOT..I WHEN TO ADULT PROTECTION SERVICES...THEY SAID THAT SHE DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE FROM HER ACCOUNT..IT IS NOW UNDER INVESTGATION WITH THEM AND MEDICAID..THEY SAID THAT ALL THE TRANSFER THAT SHE DID RED FLAGS WHEN UP...SO I REALLY DONOT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN...SO SHE DID HAVE THE RIGHT TO TRANFER THE MONEY..IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY..SO WHEN THE STATE DOES SENT THEM A LETTER I GUESS BECAUSE MY MOTHER IS NOT IN THE WILL..THEY CANNOT DO NOTHING TO MY SIL..I AM HOPING THAT I GET BACK AT LEASE WHAT SHE TOOK FROM MY MOMS CHECKING ACCOUNT..IT WAS AROUND $5200.00..

Cat - was your mom married at the time she applied for Medicaid and was her spouse still out in the community (and not in a NH)?

If that was the case, then what the Medicaid person may have told your SIL is that Medicaid allows for the "community spouse" to have resources that they can spend without impacting your mom's Medicaid. The exact amount of resources ( resources is not the same as income - which is Social security or whatever else they get each month) depends on each state but is usually about $ 109,000. But some states have this a lot lower.

In general, when there is a couple the 1 in the NH can have about 2K in resources
(like savings) and then 2K in income and be OK for Medicaid BUT the still living in the community spouse does not have to themselves become impoverished in order for the other to go into the NH. That is what the 109K allows them. Usually it is a older spouse who has a second and much younger spouse, who need this. So when he was alive, the SIL might have been transferring his "resource $", which they could do but would be an issue if he applied for Medicaid within 5 years of the transfer.

But if the "in the community" spouse dies, then it can be a problem for the NH spouse as they inherit the others $ (if the account was joint or involve community property), insurance policy, etc and then have too many resources to stay on Medicaid. So was there a will and who was the beneficiary and are you all in a community property state? At a minimum, your mom should have the 2K allowed as resources for her to keep. Your SIL may not realize this or perhaps she does........I'd speak with the social worker at the NH and have them ask the assigned Medicaid caseworker for the NH to contact you. Most states have it such, that you have to contact the state to let them know of a change in status. I'd do this sooner than later, so that if SIL has to return the $$ it is done soon without getting legal involved. Now if you think that SIL is just not a nice person, then start looking for an attorney. Often the state will send a letter to them asking about distribution of proceeds and probate status on the deceased estate and that alone will make the $ surface. You know your family best. Good luck.

can some one please tell me...my mom is in a nursing home...1 month after she was accepted for medicaid..my sister-in-law starting transfering money out of the joint checking account into her own personal checking account.she says that medicaid tole her she had the right to do this..then she says that she didnot want medicaid to take it...can medicaid come back on us..what happens after a year when she has to reapply..now my step dad died and she just was able to keep all the money and my moms has nothing..i had to move my mom close to me in another nursing home and she has to reapply for medicaid..so what do i do when they see all these transfers made..please help..

I want to thank Bob for this detailed information about the state's Medicaid policy. Very helpful, Bob!
Carol

Bob - yes you're right on the car is excluded as long as it is in her name for the full run of her time in the NH. If you sell it, the proceeds from the sale MUST go into her bank account and be used for her care or her homesteaded property if she still has a house. If you don't, she will face a penalty transfer of the fair market amount of the car against Medicaid paying for the NH.

Remember vehicle registration is recorded by the State & that data is scrubbed & distributed to all agencies including TX DADS (dept that does Medicaid) so it will come up eventually. My experience with TX Medicaid, is they are very through on vetting the application and you need to provide as much of the info requested initially to make it work smoothly. You want to xerox all the bank statements from the last year, all pages of any insurance/burial/funeral. If any bank accounts were closed or transferred within the last 3 years, you want to go to the bank and have them do a letter detailing where that $ went: like certificate of deposit account 123 deposited into primary bank account 456 OR account 789 closed with cashier's check made out to XYZ for home repairs. Don't try to be cute & leave stuff out.

The sale of the car needs to be close to whatever the Kelly blue book value is - so if it's 3,800 then it needs to sell for within 10-20% of that. If you sell it for $ 1.00 to worthless nephew, she will still face a transfer penalty based on the BBook value and gotten screwed and the only one who wins is worthless nephew. I think it's the same thing if she donates it to a charity too.

The transfer penalty is the $ amount & period of time an otherwise qualified Medicaid NH resident will not qualify for Medicaid to pay for the nursing home
AND the NH will have to be paid by $ from the sale, if the money was spent on other stuff the family will have to pony up and private pay. Remember Medicaid, even though it is a federal program, is administered by each state according to the states unique rule of law on property rights, etc. So each state has it's own rules on the transfer penalty % and how they figure the average for NH cost.

In general, it works like this: mom has her 100,000 home, goes into NH, after 2 years family is over dealing with the home so they sell it. Now the state's NH AVERAGE monthly cost is $ 5K, so 5 by 100 is 20. So that means for 20 months, Medicaid will NOT pay for her care as the $ from the sale of the home is to be used to pay for her care.

My suggestion is, IF you can, sell the car BEFORE you do the application and use the 3K to get her things she will need. You can buy a funeral and burial policy, life insurance (small, term, irrevocable NCV). Glasses, dental care (spotty on Medicaid), hearing aids, walkers. If she has a home, prepay for utilities, cable, insurance, repairs. No $ gifted to others. Everything must be for their care or their property. Medicaid look back is 5 years. The state can go thru 5 years of bank records & also require receipts to any item that pique’s their interest. 3K isn't that much money, one good series of dental visits and it's spent. If you sell it after she is in the NH then you really have no control on what you spend it on as it must go to the NH first. So selling before is better.

Remember to have the plates removed, as in accordance with Texas Department of Transportation policy.