Hello Caregivers. My mom (75), who lives independently, lost an unknown amount of money to scammers pretending to be Publishers Clearing House (PCH). I am looking for suggestions to talk with her about this; to identify the larger issue of struggling financially; and to help her identify future scammers. I think what worries me more than the lost money is she called me very excited saying that she won $2 million and a Mercedes. She said that they initially asked for her bank account information - she didn't give it - so they said they would be stopping by with the van and the Mercedes on Friday. When she told me this I had a mixed feeling of worry and hopefulness. She almost convinced me until my husband and I performed further research after we got off the of the call with her. She was scammed: 1) PCH never calls in advance and they never ask for bank info. They will always surprise the recipient. 2) They don't give out Mercedes. If the scammers can't get the bank account info, they will try to get you to send money "for taxes." I called my mom back right away. I tried to softly break the news to her. She said she read all of that, but they are stopping by on Friday and they wouldn't bother with that if she didn't win. I asked if she paid any money for taxes...SHE DID! My husband became frustrated. and asked her how much (we were on speaker phone). My mother said she wasn't comfortable sharing that information. At that moment, she sort of shut down. (My mother is very sensitive to men acting like they are smarter than her - and my husband's voice inflection was parental). I decided to give her a few days before calling her back. Any suggestions for having a conversation about being scammed without making her feel dumb? I know getting scammed can happen to anyone not just the elderly, but I want to help my mom not get into this trap again. This is also a clear sign that she's a little desperate for money. I know finances are tight for her. I don't have enough money to support her, but I could help a bit. I need suggestions for having a financial conversation with her. I also think she spends too much time alone. Too much time on the internet getting into trouble. She volunteers and goes to church more than the average retiree I think, but she lives alone. Any suggestions for helping identify future scammers?
Click on the white magnifying glass to the left of your avatar on the blue to green bar at the top of the page, and search for "scams". You'll get a lot of hits for other threads addressing the same issue.
My Mom did not have caller ID. I drummed it in to her that if the call was about donating to a charity or someone selling something tell them her daughter handled her money. She was very good about this but did get sucked in once.
Do you remember the Vets and their lightbulbs? Mom bought them everytime they called. Well she got a call saying "Its time to order ur lightbulbs". So of course she assumed it was the Vets. Well the price of the bulbs were outrageous (like $80) and she said no I can't afford that. So they got her down to 50-1 gallon bags at the cost of $35.00 this included shipping. I know this because she fessed up that she thought she may have boobed. They sent the bags and billed her. TG she didn't have a credit card. Shipping was $8 so the bags were $27. The bags were no better than the $1 store ones. I called the company (no not the Vets) and told them I was sending them back and needed a shipping label. They told me to keep the bags and they would delete the charges. In the background you could hear kids. I looked up the company and only got a phone# no website.
I am sure my MIL fell for the same scam because she had a box of trash bags in her garage, from them, when we cleaned out her house.
I so hope your Mom didn't send alot of money. And by the way PCH is a scam in itself. So she shouldn't be dealing with them in any way.
We convinced her not to keep doing this, she agreed, didn't for a couple of years, then she started all over again.
She is now in AL and all her mail comes to my brother at his house, finally ended the nonsense.
She didn't lose a lot but more than she should have.
My opinion she will not stop, she is hooked, that is why so many old women get caught up in the Nigerian scams, lonely and unable to make sensible decisions.
I think that you should discard the hopefulness part, and sit down with her and be honest, most important do not give her any money.
Good Luck.
There really is no way for a person to not feel dumb when they realize they've been scammed. Especially if other people know about it. Your mother not being comfortable discussing how much she shelled out to these scammers means she probably gave them a lot.
All you can do is speak to her plainly. She got scammed. She's not the first, she won't be the last. Feeling embarrassed can help a person become more careful.
Same thing, PCH. They got all her information. Social security number, date of birth, birthplace, maiden name, mother’s maiden name, credit card number.
I filed a police report, went to the bank and investment company office. It is a small town, I didn’t have a POA, but I showed them the screenshots. They knew the guy whose account had been hacked. Unofficially, there was an alert placed on her accounts. I had her cancel her credit card and get a new one.
I’m slightly resigned that her identity has been stolen and this could go very badly.
She was frustrated with her ipad and had me get her a new one. I kept the old one and every so often I check her Facebook and email.
I’ve thought about checking her credit report - and I’ve tried to have her check it when we are together.
Because mom generally writes checks, including to the charities and sweepstakes scams (she gets 8-10 mailings each day), she’s encountered the scammers bleaching her checks and have unauthorized withdrawals from her bank account. Since the beginning of the year, I’m aware of such withdrawals amounting to $500, $500, $1000, $15,000 (which led us to close this account) and open another (but as you see, she’s still at it)!
I read a scientific article recently that said falling for these sweepstakes scams is an early sign of dementia. Mom was diagnosed with late-onset ALZ two years ago. Mom, who had always been financially tight, used to tell us kids that such sweepstakes were scams.
its time to get access to her finances and monitor, help, etc to avoid future issues. the approach needs to be soft and out of love and support. I would ask for her to trust you in decisions over a set limit to start and with major withdrawals, etc. I had to convince my dad to take down his ‘cash’. Majority are now in annuities, stocks, rather than checking/savings as the funds are harder to get to in the former.
my dad no longer uses a computer. There was so much compromised, we eliminated use. He could not adapt to an iPhone or iPad. Would an iPad work for your mom for better security (not fool proof)?
my father was scammed over several years. First with computer software purchase, then with gift cards and then later with a married woman the age of my brother who weaseled her way in and benefited (as well as her husband and kids). Once I saw a cashiers check to her while monitoring, I approached an attorney and was told to friend her and move him to keep him close. I did and she has no idea if he is alive today. She keeps reaching out … we don’t answer. Elder abuse laws vary by state and kids can seem as meddling to protect estate interests. It’s important to get a handle on this now while it can be done reasonably.
We schooled my Mom that she was NEVER to "get" anything over the phone. Because she needed a reply to use, she would always say "I need to talk to my son. May I have your phone number and name and I will call you back". It turns out this is one of the most effective weapons against a scam. If the scammer does not give a phone number with a name immediately and hang up, chances are that the phone call is a scam. If they argue with you, then it is a scam. If they bully you, it is a scam. The chances are high that they cannot call you back once you get off the phone with them. The longer you are on the phone with them, the greater the chance that you will be drawn into the scam.
My Mom had only 1 credit card and it was a Discover card. At the time, most businesses only took Mastercard or Visa. That also stopped a few scammers. If your Mom used a credit card to give the scammers money, perhaps you could get her a different branded card that is more difficult to use for phone purchases. Since this has already happened once, it might be better if she does not have a credit card in her possession. Most credit card companies can issue a 1 time use number if she wants to order something through the mail. Is it possible to cancel the old card number and get a new number and not let her know the old number has been cancelled?
We told my Mom if anyone called her saying we were in jail, she is not to provide any money. She is to immediately hang up and call another one of the children or grandchildren. We said that we would rather have her hang up on us and leave us in jail, rather than give someone money which doesn't guarantee our release anyway.
My Mom never did like the computer for doing her finances. She visited the banks, She liked to touch and feel the goods before purchasing. For that we were grateful.
When I initially went to the banks with her, they would take her aside and ask her questions. Then they would ask me for my id and ask me the same questions to see if the answers were the same. I was grateful for those small checks.
My mother also moved into a condo which required a key to get through the main door. This eliminated the door-to-door salesmen and missionaries and the people who want to repair your driveway or your roof.
One can no longer tell if a phone call is a spam call anymore since the calls from foreign countries now use a spoofer to have caller id be a local number. After many calls of 1 or 2 rings and no one there, my Mom let the phone ring at least 5 times before she would attempt to pick it up. They tried the "grandchild is in jail" trick and she asked them for the full name of the child. She wanted the middle name, they just hung up. I happened to be with her when the call came through. That is when we told her that under no circumstance is she to believe those phone calls.
To add insult to injury, now that your Mom has been successfully scammed, she is now on "the list." This is a "victim" list that is sold to other scammers. People who have been scammed once, will generally be scammed again because they were embarrassed the first time and will try and make up what they lost...and get scammed again and again and again. The scammers are relying on the fact that these people are too embarrassed to get help, therefore they are now easy targets.
There are several pamphlets on scams, what they might look like and how you can protect yourself, that are available from your state's Office of Aging. If your Mom can still read, I would suggest that you pick up some pamphlets and let her read them. I suggest that you read it also and discuss strategies with her.
The only defense against scams is preparation and education.
When she started making multiple donations to certain charities we went over them all and she decided who she still wanted to donate to. I made a list in large print along with a column for each year so she could see how much she donated the year before so she wasn't a victim of donation amount creep. When she donated she would write the amount for that year and wouldn't make more than one donation a year unless she really wanted to.
She still had control but couldn't get into too much trouble. She was in Al and I took care of all her other bills
Telling any phone person that they have to talk to you first would be a good practice.
-I am on his accounts, so for the really important bills like property taxes, insurance, mortgages, life insurance, etc., I had the bills set to electronic delivery to my email address and no more paper bills to him. Then I pay them out of his accounts with checks I ordered for myself or set them up for automatic payment out his accounts. I also switched his bank statements to electronic delivery going to me. Out of sight, out of mind. I make sure they get paid, and he keeps his dignity by not even knowing I am doing it. I leave him just enough bills to pay on his own, and the small ones that aren’t going to cause a big problem if they are late or not paid at all, so he doesn’t get too suspicious. If he asks where a bill is I tell him, “Oh, you already paid that one”, and that seems to be enough.
-I put alerts on his accounts so if any check tries to clear over a certain amount, I set it at $250, I get a text and an email asking if this check is legitimate. If it isn’t I can put a stop on it and it won’t clear his account.
- I went to the bank and told the manager my father was having memory problems and to please keep an eye on him if he were to come in with anybody and try to withdrawal cash, or try to take out a large sum on his own. I was heartened that she said they were aware of my father’s confusion as they had noticed it, and had their eye on him and his accounts and they would call me if they saw anything suspicious. She also said that most banks keep an eye on their senior citizens more closely than other customers. I also told them that he is not “allowed” to take out more than $500 a week. Any more than that and they need to call me.
- I went to the big three credit reporting agencies and froze my father’s credit. That way nobody can take out a CC in his name and he can’t take out any new ones of finance any purchases. I did this after he had a car towed away after it broke down on the freeway and he took a cab home from 60 miles away and we never found the car as he didn’t have any info on who towed it away. So he went out the next day and just financed a new car. No more big purchases for him. I had to put an end to that.
- I cancelled two of his four credit cards so he can’t use them anymore, and then took them out of his wallet. When he asked where they were I said they had expired and we were waiting for the new ones. Then on the two remaining cards I had the limit lowered and did the same that I did with his bank accounts. I get an alert if a charge is made over a certain amount and I can deny it.
It’s a lot of work to get it all set up initially, but the best way I could think of to try to protect him. Especially as I live 3000 miles away on the opposite coast and have to rely on others to look in on him during the week, for now.
is she alert enough to answer only family and friends no matter how excited or sad or pathetic or happy they are ?
can she understand that someone might be calling a “wrong number” instead of hers ?
or can she have a phone with a blocking service ?
If I overheard the volume, tone, and words spoken, I could most likely determine how your mother may have felt. It appears your lack of discretion by having your mother on speakerphone contributed to her shutting down since you stated, "My mother is very sensitive to men acting like they are smarter than her - and my husband's voice inflection was parental"
I recommend that you tell your mother how much you love her and how you don’t want anyone to ever take advantage or scam her. Share the warnings from the U.S. Postal Inspection Service - read them together to help her gain insight at:
https://www.uspis.gov/tips-prevention/older-americans
Let her know that the next time someone asks for money, you and her can research together whether the company is legitimate or not.
It’s imperative that you convince her not to buy into these scams, these people are professionals and many of us could get caught off guard in the right circumstances
In the future, I would suggest that you deal with your mother directly and personally and leave your husband out of it. No healthy 75 year old parent likes to be talked down to by a child’s husband. How your 75 year old mother chooses to spend her time is also not really your concern. If she needs money, wait until she asks for it. You and your husband have already made her feel dumb enough.
You might also tell her how sneaky they can be. The caller ID can look like the call is coming from her bank, the phone company, etc. If it looks like it's someone like that, she should hang up and call you. Then you can verify if someone legit is trying to call her.
A little more about the Office on Aging. It is a federal program in 54 "districts" that primarily utilizes volunteers. Each state determines how they are going to operate and monthly, must give a report back to the federal government reporting their time and what they did. Yearly, they provide an annual report as they are using tax payer dollars.
In my state, as well as information booklets, we give presentations. Some are more "fluffy" than others, however, all have useable information in the presentations. All activities done by these offices are free of charge. You might want to see if the church would be willing to sponsor a presentation(s), either in person or zoom, about consumer and medicare fraud. I know that we present to senior centers.
The scammers are getting smarter (or is that I'm slower to recognize the scam?) and it is important that we are able to recognize them for what they are. Perhaps you can take your Mom's experience to help her and others in a non-confrontational or embarrassing way.
P.S. The various subgroups welcome volunteers. Maybe your Mom can volunteer with them. Our group uses volunteers to do administrative work (e.g. clean out cabinets), be present at booths at senior fairs, give presentations and individualized counselling.
He lives five hours away and called me one night and said I needed to be at his house 8:00 a.m. in the morning because PCH was coming to deliver his prize. I had to find news reports about this scam before dad believed it was a scam.
[This was six months after he fell for another scam (fake FB profile posing as his former secretary convinced him that he could get a $50,000 government grant if he sent processing fees). After he lost several thousand to that one, I took over his Facebook account, his comcast acccount (internet, email, and home phone) and put his cell phone on our cell phone plan so I can see the numbers that call and text him.]
There are federal agencies where you can file reports. Find them and file reports. Get your mom's passwords to her social accounts, email, online banking, etc. and monitor her activities daily.
Our parents belong to a generation that trusted everyone. They just don't get that not everyone has their best interests at heart.
I have done what others did, however I set up two checking accounts--one for her that she has a debit card and knows the acct number and one for bills that I use to manage her finances. I keep her account low so if she is scammed she won't lose too much. All bills are paid online or as scheduled withdrawals so she doesn't have to touch bills. The aphasia is severe enough that she has difficulty providing numbers correctly over the phone so that sadly helps. I have also moved her to my city and see her 1-2x per week. That helps me stay aware of what she is doing since she forgets to tell me about paper bills she may have received. I also reinforce not to provide personal or financial details over the phone but that has limited effect. Her situation may include some dementia, just different from my husband's younger onset Alzheimers.
Best of luck with however you decide to move forward.
I think if you just talk to your Mom calmly and with out anyone around she might feel better. Your mom sounds like my Mom . I tell her to tell her when anyone calls to say my daughter takes care of her finances and its not a good plan to keep secrets for me that big. I asked her at any point did what she was doing,like taping money to a magazine an wrapping it in Christmas paper then a brown paper and mailing it to someone she does know seem wrong? She said she didn't think about it as she was just following the directions the gave her. I put my name on her checks and took over her bills 3 years ago and pay her home taxes and anything else that comes in. I just put my address on her bills and e-mail address on everything else. Thank goodness she doesn't get on the computer any more. I just try to call her daily and keep an eye on things. Just this week I saw a debit for a personal security system for elderly. I asked her again she didn't remember it but they charged her bank account for it. I told her she already has a system and that would be 2 of them and we would need to return it so don't open it. Also as she lives alone and may be lonely she talks to anyone. Even the lady at the PO said to her" NEVER MAIL CASH TO ANYONE".
I think all you can do it keep talking to her and show her different scams that are the news and AARP magazine . She has been up set when they call and say that a grandson in in jail and they need money, after 3-4 times I think she now knows it is a scam. I don't think things will get better and it will be a long road keeping them safe. I just try to keep the lines of communication open keep talking about things. Good Luck!
Mother has 6-7 HUGE bins in the basement of her house that are filled to the brim with 40+ years of PCH envelopes and fillers. She thinks she needs to hang on to all that stuff 'in case' she wins. And she thinks she has to BUY something every time to increase her chances of winning. She refers to her imminent winning as 'your inheritance'. OMGosh, if she HAD invested all the money she spent on garbage, there might actually BE a small inheritance.
She used to keep the boxes and boxes of sweepstakes entries in her kitchen. I blew a head gasket b/c she was tripping over them and while she would not throw them away, she would agree to storing them.
I showed her a couple of times how I open my mail. I pick it up and go through it all immediately. The obvious junk gets torn in half & thrown out and the bills get opened, noted in my financial notebook and the one or two things I might get in a week, I file. She has piles and piles of mail and wants to be organized, but just..can't.
I feel like she is drowning in paper. She gets anywhere from 5-10 packets a week with notepaper and return address stickers. She feels guilty for taking those, so she makes a contribution to whatever cause. I have told her a hundred times that the charity she's 'supporting' might very well not even giving one dime to the actual charity--they cover their overhead first. It doesn't resonate with her and she thinks she's really helping people.
At least, at 92, she cannot walk to the mailbox. Someone in the family grabs the mail and takes her 'junk' mail and all but one catalog. I know that seems mean, but she keeps buying **** and then wanting to return it--so this goes far beyond just ordering a $10 tchotchke from PCH.
'Woman, 81, gets scammed out of $420K. Now she may lose her home.'
https://www.nj.com/news/2022/08/woman-81-gets-scammed-out-of-420k-now-she-may-lose-her-home.html