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He has had POA 11 yrs. I would like to know if we get married....is his son still the responsible person with financial and property decisions and I have no rights ? I am the medical POA listed.
I tell my kid if you are going to make a mistake and move in with someone, then, make a BIG MISTAKE and get married..!! YOu may have a chance (or not) that it will work out somehow. Well, at least you can't just walk out and say good riddens. You will need to file more papers :) FUN !!! not
He has mild dementia. The main problem is that he has NOT been declared incompetent by any court of law - there is a medical note/form that his investment firm (Morgan Stanley) has from his son that "claims" he cannot handle his financial affairs, so my SO son who is POA has taken over. We have talked to a lawyer, he is try to work on getting POA revoked. Morgan Stanley keeps claiming that they have in effect the "law" from SEC about elder fraud etc, that was put in effect Jan. 2018
Frogmoor258, since your sig other has mild dementia, is there a time during the day when he is thinking more clearly? If so, and he is in agreement, make an appointment with an Elder Law Attorney set for that clearer time of day to update any legal documents. I had to do that with my very elderly parents. The Attorney will either speak with sig other alone, or if your sig other wants you in the meeting, be sure to let sig other answer all the questions directed to him.
I am a sig other, too, but we have zero plans to get married. We both have seen an Elder Law Attorney, have Revocable Trusts all set up.... POA for each other with back-up's in case neither of us are able or want to continue as POA.... Medical Directives... and other legal paperwork. Every year we tweak the paperwork.
We have kept our finances separate, never co-mingled any funds.
Reason I will not get married has to do with sig other's two grown children [in their 40's]. They are very protected of their father which is normal, and I feel by marrying it would just throw wrenches into the whole family unit. In fact, if sig other should pass on, I will let the back-up POA take over, the back-up is the Elder Law Attorney. Let the grown children gnaw in her ear trying to get more money out of the Estate. They won't get far !!
Lots of good advice here. Has your SO been diagnosed by a doctor? If not, you might be able to make some changes. After diagnosis, if you do ANYTHING now with your SO (e.g. marriage), his family, particularly his POA son will take you to court. My advice is to be nice with his family, and they have to be nice to you. You have the medical poa and it can only be changed by your SO. If he’s been diagnosed by a doc of dementia, he is not competent to make the change. His family will have to listen to you on all medical decisions. But in honestly, his family might turn out to be your allies and non-fam people are your enemies.
I am both for my husband and because i am much younger than him, it can be frustrating. Non-fam ppl assume i am incapable if making decisions for him and talk to his family instead. I constantly correct them.
The point is: cross the bridge when you come to it. Legal docs are done. Enjoy the remaining years (heartbreaking yrs) left with him. Dont fret too much.
Much as I appreciate people taking the time to answer, I believe this is a question for a lawyer. Laws vary by state and marriage in particular is a state matter. For example, are we talking community property state or not? Perhaps you need a prenuptial agreement? Please get your legal and financial ducks in a row now and definitely before you marry.
All legal documents should be reviewed annually and revised to meet current statutes as needed. 11 years is a long time and the documents should be reviewed/revised if needed now. My guess it that Morgan Stanley has special forms needed to change POA and trading rights as we found was true for Fidelity. Our DPOA from lawyer was not enough for them. Your SO needs to have a will and/or trust as well if assets are significant and include real estate. Why are you worried about son being POA? Is he maki g financial decisions that are impacting your SO in a negative way?
Almost all financial institutions (i.e, banks or investment firms) require their own POA documents to be signed and filed with them. Otherwise it's a real hassle using just your POA docs (and for financial get "durable" POA ;not just general).
This is a tricky question, and worth stepping back to think about. There is often advice to be careful about a POA to a LO who is the same age – you can both decline together and then neither one can act. Is this the reason why son was made the POA eleven years ago? Is something going wrong with the relationship between you, son and SO, or are you just worried about what might happen in view of the lack of rights? What are the actual risks – lack of rights is a worry in the abstract, but is there a lot of money involved or does the son want to sell up assets? Do you have financial protection yourself, or are you dependent on SO? Do you fear that son is trying to get you out of his father's life?
Your SO has ‘mild dementia’. Has he been officially diagnosed as lacking legal competence? In my own family, several POAs have been given when someone is travelling overseas, and certainly not incompetent. Is the POA drafted like this, so that son can act if there is no diagnosis? If not, do you and SO agree that SO is incompetent? Or has son been acting by an informal agreement for convenience? There can be a big difference between showing symptoms of mild dementia and being unable to participate in major life changing decisions.
Eleven years ago things were probably different. This might be a good time for you and SO to sit down with a lawyer or financial advisor and think how you want to do things now. If you are still on reasonable terms with son, include him as well. If SO is still legally competent, it is essential to get all the ducks in a row ASAP. That might include marriage, a new POA, or a more helpful arrangement with son.
Please get some intelligent and experienced advice based on your full situation.
This is a general statement for all readers, not a judgement on anyone's life choice/style. Just watching Judge Judy (started this year) have to handle cases where people were partners for years, decades, had kids together, but when it turned ugly for any reason, and one sued the other in her court (a $5K limit on damages, but often it is the advice they want) Judge indicated THIS is why we have laws and systems in place for legally married couples. If you fail to ever protect your partner and yourself there is nothing a court can force if you are one day unhappy, if they took all your 'stuff', spent your money, etc. There is great value to following or using the rules of society to protect oneself and their partner, or offspring, property, etc. Co habitation has a far lesser manner of strength of claim in any court. as we all see in just about any legal issue.
For the OP, they did not say if it was a male-male- or f-f partnership, or a M-F one, so that may make a difference in THIS case. But 30 years and NOT addressing care for each other, and emergencies, etc. in later years? I just don't understand, 11 years ago something happened where the partner named their son, for what ever reason. that may be the key to this..
Why would you marry at this point. I hope you haven't co-mingled your money. If you have a joint account, I wouldn't want the POA able to get to it. If you do, I would check with the bank how will this be handled if a POA gets involved. Will your half be protected. Or what you can prove you deposited.
But your question was if you marry would son still make financial decisions for Dad, answer is yes. We have had posters who have step children and when the spouse becomes incompetent the child with the POA takes over even when the couple have been together for years.
LOL, worried, I certainly did not read it that way!
My mom married at age 80 with POA in place to daughters. Getting married did not change the documents. I can see why many would have a child as POA and not change it to a new spouse. There are too many horror stories out there about financial exploitation.
If the POA is in effect then getting married won’t change anything. And if it’s in effect because your SO is incompetent then you probably won’t be able to marry him.
A child certainly does not have the ability or knowledge to handle finances even for themselves without a significant parental oversight.
I wouldn't even think an attorney would draw up a POA like that.
Getting married will not make you the one responsible for his financial decisions. But, if he is early stages he could most likely change his POA. Does he realise how difficult this would be for an eleven years old? This is truly bizarre.
If his dementia is accompanied by enough cognitive impairment to allow a POA to kick in, it's very likely that a marriage license would be out of the question due to his inability to legally consent. I'd suggest that you speak to an attorney to determine where you stand in your state.
We are working on that. My SO did give a letter to Morgan Stanley revoking the POA, but they will not honor it. Also, the POA written 11 years ago is the general POA, his son (POA) can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants be his father competent or incompetent.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Clearly - look at Frqflier response, and if you have more questions, sounds like she may have more good input.
I am a sig other, too, but we have zero plans to get married. We both have seen an Elder Law Attorney, have Revocable Trusts all set up.... POA for each other with back-up's in case neither of us are able or want to continue as POA.... Medical Directives... and other legal paperwork. Every year we tweak the paperwork.
We have kept our finances separate, never co-mingled any funds.
Reason I will not get married has to do with sig other's two grown children [in their 40's]. They are very protected of their father which is normal, and I feel by marrying it would just throw wrenches into the whole family unit. In fact, if sig other should pass on, I will let the back-up POA take over, the back-up is the Elder Law Attorney. Let the grown children gnaw in her ear trying to get more money out of the Estate. They won't get far !!
I am both for my husband and because i am much younger than him, it can be frustrating. Non-fam ppl assume i am incapable if making decisions for him and talk to his family instead. I constantly correct them.
The point is: cross the bridge when you come to it. Legal docs are done. Enjoy the remaining years (heartbreaking yrs) left with him. Dont fret too much.
My guess it that Morgan Stanley has special forms needed to change POA and trading rights as we found was true for Fidelity. Our DPOA from lawyer was not enough for them.
Your SO needs to have a will and/or trust as well if assets are significant and include real estate.
Why are you worried about son being POA? Is he maki g financial decisions that are impacting your SO in a negative way?
Your SO has ‘mild dementia’. Has he been officially diagnosed as lacking legal competence? In my own family, several POAs have been given when someone is travelling overseas, and certainly not incompetent. Is the POA drafted like this, so that son can act if there is no diagnosis? If not, do you and SO agree that SO is incompetent? Or has son been acting by an informal agreement for convenience? There can be a big difference between showing symptoms of mild dementia and being unable to participate in major life changing decisions.
Eleven years ago things were probably different. This might be a good time for you and SO to sit down with a lawyer or financial advisor and think how you want to do things now. If you are still on reasonable terms with son, include him as well. If SO is still legally competent, it is essential to get all the ducks in a row ASAP. That might include marriage, a new POA, or a more helpful arrangement with son.
Please get some intelligent and experienced advice based on your full situation.
For the OP, they did not say if it was a male-male- or f-f partnership, or a M-F one, so that may make a difference in THIS case. But 30 years and NOT addressing care for each other, and emergencies, etc. in later years? I just don't understand, 11 years ago something happened where the partner named their son, for what ever reason. that may be the key to this..
But your question was if you marry would son still make financial decisions for Dad, answer is yes. We have had posters who have step children and when the spouse becomes incompetent the child with the POA takes over even when the couple have been together for years.
My mom married at age 80 with POA in place to daughters. Getting married did not change the documents. I can see why many would have a child as POA and not change it to a new spouse. There are too many horror stories out there about financial exploitation.
A child certainly does not have the ability or knowledge to handle finances even for themselves without a significant parental oversight.
I wouldn't even think an attorney would draw up a POA like that.
Getting married will not make you the one responsible for his financial decisions. But, if he is early stages he could most likely change his POA. Does he realise how difficult this would be for an eleven years old? This is truly bizarre.