Is it legal to install a hidden camera inside your mother's home where her adult son lives?

If he owns the home now, no cameras. I suggest a private detective.

Thanks MiAdvocacy,
I know I got worked up but when you are on the other side (the one being accused) out of jealousy and spite, it 's really a slap in the face. You sacrifice everything for your parent at their request and you get false accusations hurled at you for NO REASON other than, they aren't happy with the arrangement. They would rather she had been shoved into a nursing home and going broke rapidly.

Sorry to everyone who think there is nothing wrong with this, but if there was nothing wrong, you could not be sued and LOSE a case if it was all perfectly fine. If you suspect, you call a lawyer or get over there and speak with parent and look for signs of wrong doing yourself. 

 I wish I could sue my one sibling for harrassment for all the bs he has needlessly caused me with all his false accusations. The hilarity of it is, he was the one extorting money from Mom for years and has a few screws loose so when I finally stopped him from his constant taking, that's when the false accusations started. He was upset I cut him off from Mommie's teet in his 50's. He never came by to just spend quality time with her, he always showed up only to go out and have her pay to take him to lunch, either just him or his family. Promtly after he got his lunch or whatever else he wanted, he would just drop her off. Done! He had her foot the bill for him and his whole family (wife, child and her parents) on Mother's Day! What a guy. When I finally saw she was paying between 3 to 4 hundred a month (which she could ill afford) to take him out to lunch and buy him "stuff" (he claimed he was always out of toilet paper) when she has dementia and won't know better, you bet I had to stop him. His wife even told me they had plenty of TP and it was his own delusion. Meanwhile, they go on trips to Disneyland, Canada, the Philipines while I can't go anywhere.
This is now who is accusing me of Elder Abuse! LOL!

Rainey: i agree both your post where you're citing, "here we go again." "'WE'VE HEARD." I so agree with you. Most are wrong i've studied such involving this matter and its a real shame.Also, premise on "false allegation" some are sued for making a false allegation,without any proof to support such nor validate the allegation.That is when i support the person being sued for harming the person they are falsely accusing.It's alright to be concerned,but some are just spiteful and it is not fair to the person. So,please (everyone) over here,be careful that it is not a falsehood you're sharing/spreading as you can be sued as others i know have been personally and the person won.Sued his own family ex members he call them, ex, and he is more happier now he said to me not too long ago,for making false allegations against him like that. Not a good place to be,to be sued like that. He had refused to be falsely accused when he was always there for his folks,during their time of need and his entire life and did not harm them at all.He sued.He won.Simple as that.
-
Also: You can't just put a cam in even a public "bathroom,let alone to watch someone" like that, in their home, as there are privacy laws in place for a reason. Outside the house sure. Security cams IMO(in my opinion)is warranted,outside the home for sure. and or a baby sitter type situation.
It's ok to be a little concerned, but speak with a lawyer first..."Go over all laws insofar as your county,state et.al., recordings etc., as i know my state/federal/county et.al., laws in my state, for years, by heart in my neck of the woods! LOL  and other states too being that i study for years  to procure 1 day shall procure a J.D.(juris doctor)but talk to your local lawyer... He will know how to direct you,and or about such laws insofar as, but not limited to Privacy and recording in the home that you do NOT own/have a right to.Police don't know laws like that.A lawyer with such prowess would."God bless us all."
Adios.

Thank you Reno55. I hope you don't mind if I ask but how did you get your brother to leave? My siblings and I have no contact with my mother as a result of the behaviors of my brother. I would love to have installed a camera or microphone in the house to hear what he is saying to our mother but we cannot even get in to see her. Our family situation has been traumatic and heartbreaking for everyone. And, I agree with the posts about inappropriate comments here. No one is vile for trying to protect their loved one. Most caregivers are wonderful but unfortunately some are not.

I think it's terrible that people have called the person asking the question vile. Nobody has 100% knowledge of the situation. Maybe the bully posters are just frustrated with their own situation. This is a nice place to come, learn from others and help out with our own experiences. I don't think any of us have the right to hurt other people here. Let's keep it positive.

If the house is HIS home, it would definitely be illegal to video tape him without consent. If she does not have any injuries and is not complaining about him, there is not much you can do unless you want to go to court. Social workers will ask her if she is scared of him - without him being allowed in the room - so you could go that route.

It is perfectly legal to set-up a Nanny Camera in your own house. Your home is your castle and you can take whatever steps you deem necessary to protect it and loved ones who live in it.

The question here is 'Can I install a Nanny Cam in my elderly relative's living quarters because I THINK my relative is being abused?' The person asking this question doesn't have the elder's Power of Attorney. If it is in the elder's living quarters, you need permission from the elder himself/herself or from whomever is holding the Power of Attorney.

Do what I recommended above. Consult an Elder Law attorney and a Geriatric Care Coordinator.

as far as abuse of the elderly verbally yelling at them i am throughly framiliar with that, my brother did that to mom after the stroke and dementia slid in there. he also took $1 either, found that out after she passed away. had her original will redone wich said ,share and share alike among all of us, willing everythig she had to him, had the sale of the house check made out to him, and the lawyer that helped with the sale, a family firend by the way was wondering y no one contested it. he had the check from the sale of the house made out to him entirely, brother went to another lawyer to draw up another will giving everything to him, the other brother lived with mom and taking care of her as well, both brothers shared the caretaking but said screw u to the opther brother. now that both brothers live together now that the other has no money, the other brother is just spending like no tomorrow so that there is nothing when he passes, he has medical issues as well, not expected to live more than a few years. when the " screwed" brother is able to find a job again and get his own place we weill b contesting the revised will to the lawyer that made up the original one with " share and share alike" it is something how folks can get greedy and control freaks when money is involved.

No you cannot legally install a camera in *her* or brother's home. I would personally spend time with her more in and out of home. You'll see things cos no one can hide their true self that long.

Oh very much sounds like my situation with a sister but theres caretaker bf of my moms involved he has left mom alone she caught on fire with oxygen tank. And poa says leave him with mom hmmm

Have you asked your brother if he would like a security camera installed at your expense so when he is away he could still check on Mom for safety. He may just forget the camera is there.

I don't think you are a vile person to think of your options in taking care of your mom.

You have provided nothing to really support the fact that there is wrong doing present at this point. I wish you had expanded on what "people said". what specifically was said and by whom? Was it gossip or did someone actually see something? Regarding the house...it has been his home for fifteen years. When mom passes and he is dealing with the loss of the person he has lived intimately with for fifteen years, he should be thrown out of his home? When you are not a caregiver it is so easy to become suspicious. Get out a calculator and figure out what it would have cost mom's estate for her to have gone into a nursing home (around $5000/ month) or paid for in home care (around $18 an hour) and you will realized your brother has gone a long way in making sure there will be something left for you and your siblings to inherit.

You say nothing of denied access to your mother and feel you would have the freedom in their home to place cameras. So you can be there to see the dynamics for yourself . Do it. If you are truly concerned and love her, do the work. Set a day each week when you will come for five hours and brother can be free to do what he wants. You will build trust with both of them and get a ring side view of what is going on. But do not snoop - with camera or otherwise. You have nothing substantial to base your suspicions on. So if you are truly concerned about your mother, get involved in a committed way.

Elder champ, I can relate to your story 100%. Fortunately we were able to remove my brother before he was able to go that far. It is a shame and I am sure your mom has been walking on eggshells for years-a terrible way,to live.

please correct me if I am wrong but don't people use nanny cams to check, and verify and when they suspect foul play with their children? what is the difference. none. a person who has dementia doesn't know right from wrong, good treatment from bad. that is your parent and if you truly feel foul play I would use a camera or any other type of equipment that would clear my mind of the "maybes or I heard" remarks stated in some of the responses. I don't care what is legal or not when it comes to the safety of a loved one. there is a saying that says it all and that is " its better to be safe than sorry".

If you think your mother is being abused, she probably is. My brother lived with my parents for about 20 years and he always rubbed in our face that he did it all for them. I was there every Sunday to pick them up from church, take them to Sunday breakfast, the grocery store and pharmacy. Either my daughters or I took them to their medical appointments. We helped with cleaning on Sunday and paid all the bills and went through all correspondence. Mom was well enough to cook except for the last three years that my brother lived with them. I always suspected he verbally abused them but they always denied it. When dad went on hospice care I quit work to spend more time with them. Mom has dementia and it became apparent during that time. That's when I noticed how they feared him and how much money was being given to him. We hired a cleaning lady then someone who cooked their meals my brother tried firing them because they reported all his verbal abuse to me. When dad was on morphine and other strong meds the hospice nurses reported missing meds. They suspected my brother and let me know. We had to lock up the medication and those of us who had the combination had to account for every single pill. We suspected he was selling the pills. While dad was on hospice care many things went missing jewelry, crystal, silver, tools etc. my brother was like a caged lion because I had control of the bank accounts. Dad passed and I sold the house I have POA I put their money under their living trust. Mom lives off of dad's small pension. I will only touch the money from the house sale when I have to. Like if I have to put her in a skilled nursing facility or buy medical equipment and such. we added a downstairs room for her in our house. She lives with me for 6 months and with my sister for another 6 months. My brother was livid when we sold the house and wanted to sue me. He said he had sweat equity invested in that house. He has told our relatives that my sister and I have spent all mom's money. My other brothers except for one criticize us, they have no idea how hard it is to care for a parent with dementia. Mom's health is thriving except for her dementia. Dad's death has taken s toll on her as far as her mental health she is extremely depressed over his death. They were married for 74 years. I can't say she is happy, but she is well taken care of. My brother hasn't spoken to her since dad died. He was the youngest of seven and she babied him always. She will sometimes remember that he won't speak to her and she cries. We even thought of giving him money to visit her, but decided against it. My mom had a dear friend who had a son living with her years ago. He made his sisters feel bad that he was the caretaker even though they were actively involved in her care. The poor woman was assaulted and killed in her own home. Her kids were devastated and the man who did her lawn/garden was blamed. The man, who was undocumented, left the country when he found out the police were looking for him. It turns out that it was her son who killed her and he was the one who had blamed the gardener even though all the neighbor's said that the gardener went beyond his duties to help the elderly woman. The son was found guilty and sentenced for the death of his mother. They found that he had been physically abusing his mother she had bruises on her body. He had been demanding money and more money until she refused. All this of course was discovered after her death. So again, do what you have to do. Find out if there is abuse going on because many times the elderly like children, fear their abusers and will not speak up. Good luck and God bless us all.

Finally, a sane response jmotherofjohn. It is easy to misunderstand the actions, especially if you aren't the one that is doing the caregiving. Jmotherofjohn had a very fair response about turning over the house, and also being the POA. When you aren't in the caregivers shoes how can you say the action was done in malice? The caregiver may just be doing the best they can at the time. I know my Mom would sometimes say to visitors that I kept her locked in her room and never let her out. Of course she would say that while sitting at the kitchen table having breakfast. I would be horrified because people tend to believe whatever they hear and it was the farthest thing from the truth. Caregiving for a person with dementia you have no control over what is being said, and many times over what is being done. My Mother lived with me, but if her care would have gone on for too many more years there would have been a time that we would have had to address her assets being taken by Medicare. Eventually she would have needed care that only a hospital could provide, or a medical facility. I also found it necessary to be a POA in order to write checks, and for her medical care. When my Mother came to live with me she still had bills that needed to be paid for that had nothing to do with her care. If siblings have not made a plan together for what they expect to see from the caregiver, and what they think that should entail, then how is that sibling to know you had expectations of them doing something different? If you haven't sat down and talked about Mom's finances and her care and you have left that up to the caregiver, then why do you blame that persons choice and actions? They may just be doing the best they can to get everything done. It is easy to stand in judgment while watching, never getting your hands dirty, and easy to speak ill when you aren't the one putting in the work. If you suspect something being done wrong then spend some time, ALL of you as siblings, to make a plan for your Mom's future, to seek legal advice, for ALL of you to have a voice in what is best for your Mom. Have check's and balances so it isn't left on just one person, but do it as a family rather than isolate the caregiver, and make them the bad guy. The more time you spend the more you will see Mom in her environment and you will be able to watch and really get a sense of what is going on. If you suspect something more is going on then ask your local law enforcement what the next step should be. Don't just assume the caregiver is up to no good. I have been on the other side and have been THAT caregiver. I had two siblings who could have cared less, but then wanted to stand in judgment, once it was over, because it wasn't done their way. If they would have wanted things done differently, I would have been happy to have done it their way, and yet no one spoke up, or suggested that we do it differently with them helping. I did things that made my caregiving easier with my Mom, because day to day it was difficult, and as time passed, even more so. Because my siblings chose not to be involved they had no idea what it took day to day. In the end my siblings said the same mean things, but then they were no where to be found when the hard work needed to be done. What I can say is that my Mom thrived in my care and she was happy. Really that is what matters. Is your Mom thriving and happy? If not, take a different tact. Try caring for Mom as a family, try being in your siblings shoes for a minute. If you then see some wrongdoing you should report it, and then find out what the next step is to find that place where your Mom can thrive and be happy.

Dear Vandoo:
Have you ever thought to ask him to see the expenditures? One of his duties as POA is to validate all the money. Have a meeting with the lawyer, your brother, and the siblings. Have it now while your mother is alive. He has been there for 15 years and if she was being abused in anyway she would probably express it when your brother is around all of you. I looked after my parents for 20 years and when they both died all the accusations started. I think your brother well deserves to inherit the house. Ask him how many hours a night he sleeps if at all. I get upset when I hear all the stories of the sibling who cares for the parents. The best way is to be open with this. Don't sneak behind your brothers back like he is a criminal.
If you haven't ever cared for the elderly in their own home then you have absolutely no idea how much sacrifice of time and of earnings and of retirement benefits and of your own normal life it takes. I have a very good idea. The next time that you get a PAID vacation, tell your brother to go on a vacation--a break from his duties with your mother. You look after her for a few weeks and get a taste of what you think is a free ride. I never got that offer from my siblings in 20 years. When all the dirty work was done they wanted their equal share in the house. I am fighting for my deserved share now. So Vandoo if you think all your siblings should get an equal share of the money, then roll up your sleeves--put on your rubber gloves and dig in to all the fun and games that your brother deals with 365 days 24 hours a day. Be an advocate-yes if need be but have a meeting. Tell the lawyer what your concerns are and deal with the situation like an ADULT child. I believe that inheritance is not a birth right. Your brother is providing a service to your mother and he should be paid adequately for it. And if you think he should provide care for free (like my siblings think) Move in to your mothers house and YOU do it for free! Good luck. I hope that your family can handle your situation in a calm and mature manner and that your family can come out of this with love for each other and you may not see it now, but your brother is doing a beautiful thing for your mother. She knows it. She deserves it. But she has to pay for it.

Vandoo, I hit the send button too quickly. Did you sign the quit claim deed? I am not sure what you are talking about when you say he signed a quick claim. If you name is on the property, YOU would have had to sign the quit claim deed - that wouldn't be something your brother could do to take you off the property?

I'm with Bob. You can ask for forgiveness if you "get caught" and nothing is wrong...however, if you "get caught" and there is abuse going on I would suspect your brother would quickly be willing to negotiate the situation. Nanny cams were once illegal too until too many got caught abusing children. Follow your instinct and do what is right...time is ticking if your brother has been there for 15 years. If he's not doing anything wrong you may have ruined the relationship but I suspect that's probably ruined anyway.

This forum has literally saved my sanity over and over. I would hate to see it dissolve into a site with little compassion and name calling. The variety of answers are exactly what I am looking for sometimes as different people see things from different perspectives.

CM, you are great! Another thing that is just sticking like a thorn in my toe over all this is whatever happened to "Innocent until PROVEN guilty" not the absolute opposite! Why is everyone so quick to grab the torches and pitchforks when there is no REAL PROOF of these accusations? What if someone at your work falsely accused you of innapropriately touching them when you had not and then the whole company came after you? Ruining your reputation even if in the end they found out it wasn't true. Damage done. Wouldn't be the first time things like that have happened. Little by little, we lose our privacy, freedoms, because it is becoming "normal" to have the world under constant surveillance now. We are being slowly acclimated to this new 24 hr "Big Brother" like environment. Well I for one think it stinks and if this is to be our "new world" I can hardly wait to be done with it. I do not envy the children today, that is for sure! They have already called and had him investigated for abuse. Because they are not getting the result they had hoped for they should keep calling APS until they find a suspicious mark on her that could possibly be used as a sign of abuse? What if she accidently bruised herself? Heck, my Mom fell and bruised her face because she got up too quickly and her blood pressure plummetted and she fainted! Was that MY fault? Man, my brothers could have had a field day with that one if they wanted to. Thankfully, they know her tendencies and did not call APS on me! They could have said I beat her and I would have been hung out to dry! Does anyone see the big picture here? You want to know what's going on? Get your butt over there and get involved yourself! Ask your parent if there are problems, look for signs of abuse yourself and make sure it isn't just a random bruise that she could have done to herself. For God's sake siblings, get involved yourselves if you "think " there are problems! Give him some time off and " be with her " to observe what she is like on a daily basis. What if she is combative? That happens too! Heck, ask her to spend a few weeks at your home for a little vacation. You don't know until you live with it everyday. Until then, leave the secret cameras out of it, it could backfire on you for installing surveillance cameras without consent or knowledge. Then YOU will be the one in the hot seat for breaking the law. Imagine how you would feel if someone did that to you.

Cetude--your comment was completely uncalled for. People come here, often desperate for answers and you call them names? I think most of us see your name on a post and promptly ignore it.

As for the surveillance--as much as I agree with Old Bob---there are laws about privacy and the right to expect privacy. Mom has not complained about her care--even if you feel brother is abusing and using her. You have to respect her home (esp now it's legally brother's home, whether you like it or not)..and figure out another way to see what's going on.

Being "there" is best. Actually showing up and helping. Mother lives with my younger brother. He does complain about her, and I do go up and try to relieve him as much as possible. If I listened to and believed all the "reports" I get from my SIL's family--you'd think my brother was a monster. He's not. He's tired and frustrated. No other sibs are ever around to lift the burden of the 24/7 care, whether or not it's physically or emotionally draining, it takes its toll on brother. Yes, he has spoken sharply to mother, so have I. A saint would have.

But--hiding a camera to "surveil" the goings on.....no, no and no. What little trust you have between you and brother will be completely gone, he likely would spin the situation into something worse, for your mother.

How involved have YOU been in her care? (Just asking) Have YOU ever cared for mom in her current state for longer than an afternoon? OR couple of hours?

I am not condoning what your brother may or may not have done to mother and what he may or may not have taken--I'm just saying, caregiving is so hard. You always feel unappreciated, you are always tired.

Until you've been there, you have no idea what's going on or how it feels. Again, NOT condoning what he's done--just, I think a face to face with brother and if that's not productive, a call to APS and/or an Elder Care Lawyer.

Your mother is lucky to have a caring daughter. Whether or not your brother is abusive if the facts are as you state, you certainly have grounds to suspect that he is. You certainly have every right to call protective services, but it is clear that they are not much help.

You need to find an attorney experienced in elder law. He or she will know what you can do under the circumstances. If the property is indeed your brothers, you would be in a lot of legal hot water to install hidden cams, but if he obtained the property by fraud or other abuse, there may be ways to deal with that. The attorney will know, and if your brother really is a scumbag, you may need some legal protection both for you and your mother from him, and so it would be good to get legal counsel.

Again, your mother is fortunate to have a caring daughter. I have reported the post which reviled you. There is no need for that in this group. Your question was sincere, and no matter whether you are right or wrong, that person should remember what my own mother always taught me: "Be careful when you point a finger. Remember that you're pointing three back at yourself."

We have cameras all over our office without any permits, but we own the property AND the employees know they are monitored for everyone's safety. If you are worried about your mom, why don't you go and stay with her and your brother for awhile. See what's happening to her. It's easy to misunderstand the actions of the caregiver if you are not involved on a day to day basis. The authorities understand this which may be why they have determined there is no concern. If your brother has been shouldering this work all this time, he may be thrilled to have you help! On the other hand, he may be suspicious of your motives if he is aware you have reported him to the authorities. My mother in law hated her hospital bed and she would rattle the bars like a prisoner in a Hollywood movie, but if she had not had the bars? She would have forgotten that she couldn't walk and would have gotten out of bed falling and injuring herself. So sometimes we can misunderstand what we see and hear if we are not living the day to day. What are considered 'normal' freedoms and behaviors in the life of a person without dementia may not be 'normal' for a patient with severe dementia. If you are really worried, I suppose you can have her removed from the home and placed in a facility but she may be even less happy with that arrangement. Having dementia looks like a pretty scary thing and any comfort you can offer to both your mom and your brother is helpful. One of the reasons your brother may have had your mother sell the house to him was to protect the asset from being absorbed by Medicare should she fall, break a hip, and then have to be admitted to a facility. As far as POA, that is important to have in order to get her bills paid for her. Anyway, best of luck in your pursuits. I hope your fears are unfounded.

Cetude, that was uncalled for and inappropriate for this venue. A person comes here asking a valid question and you slam them with insults and don't even bother to actually answer the question. With answers like that no one is going to feel comfortable asking their questions.

In answer to the original post, I would suggest you ask your local law enforcement about it. No elderly person deserves to be taken advantage of and they certainly don't deserve to be mistreated or abused. Maybe you and the rest of the family can try and visit more often and see what you can find out.

So sad for your mom. Since he owns the home now it's not easy for you to just drop by daily to visit or spend the night. Just talk to him it will be uncomfortable but do it for your mom's sake. He probably has POD on any accounts she may have too. If she wasn't competent at the time of the sale you probably could get the house back in all names.

No, it is not legal to install a spy camera on or in someone else's property.
But depending on your state, it would likely be legal to install such a camera (with a telephoto lens) on a neighbor's property, with their permission.

There are two things I would do. First, I would talk to an elder law attorney, just as TheDementiaRN suggested above. Laws and practices vary greatly from state to state--and there can be *very* serious consequences should you get caught violating them. You need very specific instructions about how to proceed, and this is beyond what an advise forum such as this can provide.

Another professional I would consider turning to is an elder care coordinator. I would select either an advanced practice nurse / nurse practitioner or a very experienced social worker. The elder care coordinator has to be someone with extensive experience working with dysfunctional families as well as working with mentally ill people. An elder care coordinator with the sort of expertise you need is definitely not cheap. This person (usually, but not always a woman) will really know the lay of the land, She's probably worked with families in turmoil, where one member is being accused of taking advantage of the frail parent. She will know the local elder law attorneys and probably has testified in court more than once. She's worked with many attorneys and can give you an insider's view about them. She's familiar with Adult Protective Services and knows who to call. She knows how to document a case. She's a really good educator. In your situation, a 90 minute to 2 hour consultation with one is definitely in order. How do I know? Personal experience. The elder care coordinator I consulted was an advanced practitioner nurse with expertise in geriatric medicine and who was the unit manager of a geriatric psychiatric unit at a

DementiaRN--IMHO, a really good and smart nurse is worth his or her weight in gold--both to the patient and to his or her family.

I agree wholeheartedly with Nursesforever. My adult brother has lived with my mom his entire life and it has been a family issue for the past twenty five years. Every attempt was made to help him get out on his own by my parents and siblings. When father passed twenty years ago, he was livid with my brother for not working. The ethos in my family was hard work. My parents had nothing and built a nice life by hard work. I am the oldest daughter and was always close to my mother. She would cry to me about "why won't he leave" but when she tried to address it with him he would get mad and walk away. Now that she has dementia, she cannot fight him anymore. She has been under threat by him, e.g., turning off the phones, changing locks, removing family photos of all the siblings, spouses and grandchildren. He has isolated her from all her children AND grandchildren. He has had her change her will to leave everything to him including a small family business that my good brothers run and have run for the past 30 years. APS and legal authorities were called in. APS sees that the house is clean and has food in the refrigerator and Mom does says everything is ok, all the while the brother is standing right next to her. So, APS says nothing is wrong. I won't begin to go into the litigation that has taken place. What I have seen is cruelty and my mother is trapped and has been exploited by the entire process. I was VERY close to my mother and now she is calling me "evil" (my brother's words of course). I was the one she came to for medical needs and respite from my brother. Poisoning the relationships to those closest to the vulnerable adult is a tactic elder abusers use to attain their goals of taking over the estate. You may not see a bruise but the abuse is there and damaging. We have tired to remedy the situation but if the vulnerable adult is saying that all is fine, the authorities don't look further. I think every adult should have a beautiful and content last sigh when he/she takes her last breath, knowing all is well with her loved ones. My mother, a kind and loving person, will now take her last breath full of angst and hatred towards all of her children (except the one "taking care of her"). Heartbreaking.

I don't know, but if she's being abused, I don't see why not if it means saving her life. I'd say go for it because you can't let this go on if she still in that situation. I would also say something to the hospital if Aps won't help, and even alert the police department but don't mention the camera unless you want to tip off the wrong person