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I was my Mother in Laws care giver for nearly 2 years, cooking, cleaning, bill paying, grocery shopping...I did nearly everything for her and lost my small business in the process, it didn't matter to me as I felt helping her was more important and took the worry off my husband, he took care of her home maintenance on her one acre property, for nearly two years it was just him and I. In Oct 2013 she was admitted to the hospital with a severe UTI and it was there we learned she had dementia and would not be allowed to go home alone. My husband moved quickly and at the request and support of her doctor became her DPOA, she was placed in a nursing home and my husband needed to sell her two vehicles and her home to pay for her care. Medicaid never was involved. None of his siblings cared enough to even be here. She passed away the end of December 2014 and suddenly everyone wants a cut of what is left in the accounts (we were joint on her personal accounts with right of survivorship) we will after all the bills are paid be splitting what is left with the five children, but here is the rub. The oldest sister who happen to be a rep on moms will is not only demanding I give her a full audit of moms estate at the time she entered the hospital but a full account of the tools dad gave my husband when he died 10 years ago! We have an appointment with an estate lawyer this week but I am just beside myself. My husband and I have all the receipts from the day she entered the hospital to her death but when he had to sell her place we had three weeks to clear it out as we had an old family friend that purchased it. We went thru a realtor and such but she is saying he let it go for below market value.. Is there anything I need to worry about here? Its so frustrating that nobody could be bothered when she was alive (we reached out numerous times asking for help) but now everyone is circling the wagon!
Hey Ducksfan - good job on getting the appointment with the estate lawyer. That person will help guide you through the pitfalls of probate or just getting it settled. My recommendations in this situation: Type up a professional list of the receipts and note what they are for. Will reduce time with attorney. As DPOA, you are required to keep these records for the court and executor when will is settled. Get the info on the house sale - what was the selling price, what were comparable prices in the area and days on market, and make sure that you have all your Ducks:) in a row. Sale on quick basis to old family friend always raises eyebrows in folks that are suspicious about money. About tools distributed 10 years ago? unless they were specifically willed to someone else, it's nobody else's business. Even Medicaid is not looking that far back yet. The estate for dead father is closed out and finished. 10 years is too long to wait if rest of family planned to contest. Folks that had no relationship with someone but shared blood will show up with hands out once they die. A sad fact. My husband's parents had a terrible relationship with his grandfather and stepgrandmother. Rarely spoke to them. The grandfather inherited money from a lady he and his wife were caregivers for after hurricane Ike. My inlaws contacted my husband to see if we knew how much the inheritance from lady was and what the grandfather's condition was in case he was not competent to take care of it....so you are not alone. Just gather the materials and inform your SIL that the estate attorney's bills will be coming out of the estate for all, so keep the bills down and in everyone's best interest to settle quickly and amicably. Personal experience from my mother's estate and my sister's experience. She informed my brother that each grumble about money was costing part of his inheritance. He shut up quick.
I've noticed that this is a repeated question which tells me that you are very upset and that is understandable in this situation.
The house most likely sold low because the housing market is low and it is lower in some places than in others.
Earlier this month, on a completely different thread, you mentioned the sister that is threatening to sue you and at that time, it had only been a week after the funeral. You expressed an earlier concern that this sister might have tried to take total control of your MIL's money and taken it all.
She is evidently the third executor of this will and the other two brothers do not agree with her. What a mess! I don't know why people make a will with more than one executor, but if there was going to be just one, it is good that it is not her.
It is very kind of you to have chosen to divide equally among the sibling the money in the joint accounts after the bills are paid. As I said earlier, you are not required to legally
It sounds to me like the estate lawyer really needs to meet with the three exectuors, your husband and probably yourself so that the lawyer can mediate this unreasonable sister and the rest of the family. She must be one greedy person!
It sounds to me like this one sister is your main problem and that the the two brothers who are executors are not circling the wagon.
I think it will take a lawyer to deal with that sister.
I think the only thing you have to be worried about is that even your patience might eventually snap so that you do finally punch this woman in the mouth. Try not to do that. It would be a shame to blot your and your husband's exemplary record.
The Executor has to report to the courts exactly what MIL had the day she died. I would give her that information, with the account numbers and the proof of joint accounts, because she has to report that for probate. Anything else she wants, tell her to get a court order and contact your attorney. Then tell her to go pound salt.
I would make sure that you give all three executors the same information.
And I would take an official copy of the death certificate that the funeral home usually gives to the bank and have her name removed from the account because you are now the legal owner of those accounts.
From what I know, an executor of a will cannot touch joint ownership accounts with right of survivorship. The joint accounts automatically go to the survivors listed on the accounts.
Thanks everyone, Yes, I was a bit ticked off when I wrote this morning, much calmer now. The appointment with the estate lawyer is more for our peace of mind that we did everything right and there is nothing she can come after us for. Although I know we don't have to split the money by golly my husband and I know it was not moms intention to disinherit the rest of her children and we will split the money equally to the last penny, My husband has alerted the rest of the kids the ball is in her court tho, no money will leave that account for anyone (us included) until this is settled. That got some heads raised and hopefully if the other three (two of which share executorship with her) stand up to her together she will stand down.
Good news to hear that your husband has alerted his siblings! I hope the other three will stand up to their sister as a united front and convince her to stand down. Have a good appointment with the estate lawyer. That will give you more peace of mind.
Yes, good news except for one brother lol, he tells us last night that the rest of the children shouldn't suffer because of this one sister, that we should just give him his portion so he can move on with his life... My husband told him that no money will be distributed until this is settled and that it is in everyone interest to work together to let her know to stop harassing us.
How much does peace of mind cost... $500.00... Worth every penny!!!
Met with the estate lawyer today, At first hubby and I were kinda freaked out because she was going over the letter and asking me for this document to prove this and that document to prove that... Let me insert a warning in here for all you caregiver of parents...SAVE EVERYTHING! every receipt, every scrap of communication with family, everything! I was able to reach into my file box and go to the corresponding folder and pull out each and everything to refute what was asked in the letter, no matter how petty or insignifigent I thought the question I had the proof to refute it. The Lawyer told us that even tho she might be blowing smoke her questions were valid and had we taken the older brothers advice and tossed her letter and paid out the family we could have found ourselves in court. So long story short, every claim she made is wrong and there is a paper trail and proof to back it up, lawyer is going to send a copy of sisters letter to all the kids plus the copy of documents to show what she asked, along with that letter will be a letter from the lawyer (from us) stating that the family has two weeks to look at any other papers they choose at the lawyers office and of course by appointment only. If they choose not to they must have Notarized and signed a document stating that they accept their share of what is left in the account and that they will seek no further action against us. Come to find out, The money in the account although is technically ours they could take us to court and possibly win because the only money that was deposited was from Mom and the only money spent was for her...
Feel much better, we have to have no dealing nor communications again...oh, and I asked the lawyer to include in the letter what she has charged and will charge every hour, what court cost will be and what the breakdown as of today their share of the inheritance is...
Thank you, for the update and most especially for telling your story. You have helped to reinforce to us the importance of document, document, document. I'm really lacking on this - with a daily journal of the home front. Receipts - I'm still working on it. And that's new info about the bank account - and how they can still take you to court and possibly win. I thought it was cut-and-dry but I guess not.
The information about the account does not sound exactly right because jointly owned means jointly owned regardless of who puts the money into an account.
My step-dad didn't threaten to come after me and my lawyer didn't say that I needed to worry about anything with being co-owner with my mother of her accounts and every dime in them was put there by her. The bank didn't blink an eye when I brought the death certificate in to change the account into my name alone. We are talking about over $150,000 just in checking and savings alone that became mine overnight with her death. I guess if your SIL had been my step-sister, then she probably would have motivated my step-dad to try and get some of that money, but he'd not have a leg to stand on. The same is true of the investments that we were co-owners of. She invested all of that money not me. Its value was about $360,000 when she died in 2013 and now it is worth close to $400,000.
Anyway, I'm glad that you got some peace of mind from the lawyer.
I agree.. I was a bit taken aback when the lawyer told me that, But she said it in the context as if we were to disregard the inquiry and just take the money. She said that we could be taken to court and in the end a judge could rule the money was part of the estate, not that it would so to speak but that it could. My hope here is that she is going to get the packet with all her questions answered and be done, realizing that this small farm girl who she has always thought a bit slow actually had her ducks in a row and was prepared for her, that's my hope. But then part of me knowing how this sister is wonders if she might switch gears and try and get something else, which if she does will only cost the estate more money. I don't care either way, my job is done, everything has been left with the lawyer and I have to have no dealings with any of them. I can now focus on my small farm, raising this years flock and getting my garden mapped out and what I want to put in and planting a tulip bed to remember my husbands parents by :)
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
The house most likely sold low because the housing market is low and it is lower in some places than in others.
Earlier this month, on a completely different thread, you mentioned the sister that is threatening to sue you and at that time, it had only been a week after the funeral. You expressed an earlier concern that this sister might have tried to take total control of your MIL's money and taken it all.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/keep-share-of-elder-joint-checking-account-150999.htm?cpage=3
She is evidently the third executor of this will and the other two brothers do not agree with her. What a mess! I don't know why people make a will with more than one executor, but if there was going to be just one, it is good that it is not her.
It is very kind of you to have chosen to divide equally among the sibling the money in the joint accounts after the bills are paid. As I said earlier, you are not required to legally
It sounds to me like the estate lawyer really needs to meet with the three exectuors, your husband and probably yourself so that the lawyer can mediate this unreasonable sister and the rest of the family. She must be one greedy person!
It sounds to me like this one sister is your main problem and that the the two brothers who are executors are not circling the wagon.
I think it will take a lawyer to deal with that sister.
I think the only thing you have to be worried about is that even your patience might eventually snap so that you do finally punch this woman in the mouth. Try not to do that. It would be a shame to blot your and your husband's exemplary record.
Anything else she wants, tell her to get a court order and contact your attorney.
Then tell her to go pound salt.
And I would take an official copy of the death certificate that the funeral home usually gives to the bank and have her name removed from the account because you are now the legal owner of those accounts.
From what I know, an executor of a will cannot touch joint ownership accounts with right of survivorship. The joint accounts automatically go to the survivors listed on the accounts.
Keep us posted.
Met with the estate lawyer today, At first hubby and I were kinda freaked out because she was going over the letter and asking me for this document to prove this and that document to prove that... Let me insert a warning in here for all you caregiver of parents...SAVE EVERYTHING! every receipt, every scrap of communication with family, everything! I was able to reach into my file box and go to the corresponding folder and pull out each and everything to refute what was asked in the letter, no matter how petty or insignifigent I thought the question I had the proof to refute it. The Lawyer told us that even tho she might be blowing smoke her questions were valid and had we taken the older brothers advice and tossed her letter and paid out the family we could have found ourselves in court. So long story short, every claim she made is wrong and there is a paper trail and proof to back it up, lawyer is going to send a copy of sisters letter to all the kids plus the copy of documents to show what she asked, along with that letter will be a letter from the lawyer (from us) stating that the family has two weeks to look at any other papers they choose at the lawyers office and of course by appointment only. If they choose not to they must have Notarized and signed a document stating that they accept their share of what is left in the account and that they will seek no further action against us. Come to find out, The money in the account although is technically ours they could take us to court and possibly win because the only money that was deposited was from Mom and the only money spent was for her...
Feel much better, we have to have no dealing nor communications again...oh, and I asked the lawyer to include in the letter what she has charged and will charge every hour, what court cost will be and what the breakdown as of today their share of the inheritance is...
A lot of drama for under 10,000. each lol
My step-dad didn't threaten to come after me and my lawyer didn't say that I needed to worry about anything with being co-owner with my mother of her accounts and every dime in them was put there by her. The bank didn't blink an eye when I brought the death certificate in to change the account into my name alone. We are talking about over $150,000 just in checking and savings alone that became mine overnight with her death. I guess if your SIL had been my step-sister, then she probably would have motivated my step-dad to try and get some of that money, but he'd not have a leg to stand on. The same is true of the investments that we were co-owners of. She invested all of that money not me. Its value was about $360,000 when she died in 2013 and now it is worth close to $400,000.
Anyway, I'm glad that you got some peace of mind from the lawyer.
My hope here is that she is going to get the packet with all her questions answered and be done, realizing that this small farm girl who she has always thought a bit slow actually had her ducks in a row and was prepared for her, that's my hope. But then part of me knowing how this sister is wonders if she might switch gears and try and get something else, which if she does will only cost the estate more money. I don't care either way, my job is done, everything has been left with the lawyer and I have to have no dealings with any of them. I can now focus on my small farm, raising this years flock and getting my garden mapped out and what I want to put in and planting a tulip bed to remember my husbands parents by :)