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Good points, Barb. I can't recall how many posts I've read on this forum in which a sibling knows a lot about how someone else is using a parent's funds.
Well, I held the POA for several family members, they let me do what I needed to do, and, they were not deemed incompetent, they just understood that they were failing. My brother has it for his father & step mother, he takes care of basically everything for them, they just roll with it!
I think I just need to get things straight. Is the brother POA for health care and POA for financial of a mom diagnosed with Alzheimer's? Because then, yes, he may use her funds for her as he believes she would have wanted them used in her more cognizant life, to pay for her care and her bills. To manage her assets, keep them in repair. This would include he could pay an attorney giving advice about her affairs, bills, assets, etc. with her funds. As to her leaving an Assisted Care Facility, no I think it would be unwise of him to allow this. She would, I assume be leaving for another State? Perhaps to visit you? She would be away from her life, her doctors, her safety, really, and unaccompanied as she traveledif she is deemed to have dementia. If you two are arguing he could well distrust your motives in trying to "get Mom with him" and then take her to a Lawyer who would blah blah blah--we actually hear those stories here, believe it or not. What would be wonderful would be were she well enough to have him come along WITH her to see you, and visit. Or you to go to where she is. She has given him POA. She entrusted him to act for her and in her stead for her. I have to assume he is doing this to the best of his ability. You do not mention any fraudulent behavior on his part. You say he could have chosen a better facility. These are hard decisions because it is crucial to get money to last the lifetime of the senior. Those of us trying to decide these things do the best we are able. The wars between siblings, I have to tell you, is one of the most painful things I see on this forum. I am the mother of two daughters who do not get along at all, who do not speak. To imagine them at war over my failing mind and body is hideous. I have, therefore, given all rights and powers were they needed and were my partner to pass before me, to the daughter I see the most, who has the clearest understanding of what my wishes would be, the daughter I know and trust the best. I can love them both; but the decision is made. I can imagine wars. They are painful to think about. I can only do the best I can to put my own house in order so that no questions come up after. Were you to expect fraud, you could go to court and ask for a court examination and accounting I would guess. That would cost thousands. And why? For what. Can you try to get along until Mom is gone, and then just leave one another be. This is so much more pain for her and for you both. So sorry you are going through it. So sorry for her as well. The thread is a bit muddled and I may have got this ALL wrong. If so I will look for them coming to assess ME any moment!
tacky". But, first, when my father died 15 years ago (my parents were divorced), my brother had moved into my dad's home 10 years before he died because my brother did not have a job or a place to go. As my dad became older and totally incompetent, my brother got a POA and each month he would transfer all of his retirement (between 5 & 6K) to his bank account. (this went on for over 7 years.) My brother did pay all the bills, but the house was paid for, property taxes were under 1k per year, my father did not drive anymore, and they lived in a small town---being generous all monthly expenses would be around 1.5K per month, including medical---my father had the best federal employee government insurance---the same package our federal congressmen and senators have.) Additionally, my brother took my father's credit cards and check book away from him and he told me dad had been gambling, over the phone, and was wasting money. Also, when my dad did not even know who I was anymore, my brother had my father sign a quitclaim deed, for his home, over to himself. Then he filed the quitclaim deed in the next county---I guess so I would not know. So, when my father died there was nothing left. Bank account was depleted, house was gone. And my brother told he I could have nothing inside the house. Additionally, and unbelievable, my father had given his old truck to my son, who was in HS, about 5 years prior to my father's death. My brother made me give his 2K so my son could keep the car---as my brother had my dad also sign the old truck over to him---how low can you go?
Anyway, the same scenario is playing out with my mother. And, I am surprised because my mother is much more savvy---but my brother is being very smart and using my mother's lawyer's advice. And, I question this. As my mother's lawyer, shouldn't this lawyer speak with my mother about what her wants are and represent her interests? I think my brother is just too cheap to pay a lawyer out of his own pocket.
Now, my brother, would not even let me into my mother's house when she was in the hospital. And, now that she is in assisted living, he won't let me in either. He keeps all her documents and ID locked in the house. He won't let anyone know what is going on. And, he tried his best to keep my mother totally away from me (the only other sibling). He told the assisted living facility to not let me see my mother or talk to her on the phone. I had to go to the state to get this changed.
And, worst of all, my mother is not living her life anymore and my brother is using a doctor's certificate of incapacity, which was written while my mother had septic pneumonia, to keep her away from her home and all her assets. He has taken away her credit cards, her check book, all money---all for safe keeping. He even took her diamond ring. If this does not scream of fraud, I do not know what does. Plus, it is just plain disgusting.
And now, my mother is not incompetent (although she was for the short time she was in the hospital with septic pneumonia). My mother is back to "normal"and does take care of herself---baths, dresses, puts on makeup, makes appointments for the beauty parlor, like to go shopping and dress up, etc. She has COPD but she is healthy for a 97 year old. She likes to go out to lunch with her friends, and speak with her friends. She can't do any of these things anymore because my brother won't allow it. And it is my mother who wants to revoke whatever power she gave my brother so she can have her life back. And, believe me, she is broken hearted. She loves my brother and "does not want to hurt his feelings", but she wants her life back even more. Therefore, it is my mother who is making the changes and if she needs my help is getting the right paper work and driving her to her lawyer and her doctor---so be it.
"Then he filed the quitclaim deed in the next county"
I'd be curious to know how this was accomplished. From years of commercial real estate work in law firms, it's always been my experience that deeds and other documents affecting real property are always filed in the county in which they are located.
And they have to be, especially for ownership and assessment purposes. How else would the Treasurer's Office know to whom tax bills should be sent?
Standard legal descriptions always include the county, as well as the city or township, metes and bounds or platted property description.
Besides, how did you determine that the deed was allegedly filed in another county? And which county?
I can't think of any reason why another county would even consider recording a deed for property not within its borders.
They don’t always have to be incompetent. They can be comatose as a result of a stroke or a TBI. Medical POA is in affect when the person is not able to make decisions themselves.
No, not necessarily, but it depends on the wording, especially whether it was prepared by an experienced EP or EL attorney or downloaded from the Internet.
I used mine when my father had to be intubated, and then into an induced coma. Incompetence had nothing to do with his condition or situation.
If worded properly, the person granting POA can give you the rights to take care of their affairs even if they are still competent. My parents did that for me as they were getting borderline incompetent and we’re having trouble with finances.
I just read Teddy's prior post in July, thanks to 97YearOldMom for posting it.
I see that recommendations were made similar to Barb's. Teddy, when did you contact the police to report the financial abuse? What other action did you take to report the alleged financial abuse, and what resulted from it? I.e., contacting elder law agencies (if any) in Texas, or contacting an Ombudsperson?
And what steps have you taken to prepare yourself for caring for an Alzheimer's patient in your home? How have you adapted your home? What other arrangements have you made?
BTW, when's the last time you saw your mother in person?
Teddie, I read your response below. What you are claiming is 2 decades of abuse by a brother who has been living with and caring for your parents, hands on, for that amount of time. You do also mention court visits. So I know you have at some points pursued at least some of this to no good legal end for yourself. What now? You might consider running ALL THIS past an Elder Law Attorney. I cannot imagine after 20 years of caring for two elders what finances are left to bicker over, or WILL be left. But there is the matter of visiting Mom. It is difficult for me to imagine that your brother is legally able to stop your visiting with your Mom, even if that visit needs be supervised by his request as her POA. That is something you should ALSO run by the attorney. At present, the worst of all this to my mind is that you are unable to see your Mom. At this point. for me, that would be what's important. As to house, house contents, cars and trucks, and accounts, pensions, etc--I am afraid that is secondary to me. If there is a will and if there is something left when Mom passes, that will go to probate. If this brother who has been caring for his parents for almost two decades is as "evil" as you portray him, then he will have seen to THAT will long ago, and there is nothing to worry about because there will be nothing for you. We so far have a story and it is quite a dreadful story. And we have one side of it. I cannot see any answer but the court system and an attorney if you wish to pursue it. For me, I would be running up the white flags and writing my bro to say "Let's call this all water under the bridge and never speak of it again. I am BEGGING you on my knees to allow me to visit with our Mom at the now end of her days. I will be willing to visit her with you, should you worry I will speak to her about our troubled history, but please let me visit my Mom and express my love to her. Let her see us as brother together before she passes." Then I would move on with my life. What is there left here but pain and loss? Try to salvage what you can. I hope that is the light in your Mom's eyes when she sees you come to visit with your brother. I hope that is knowing they both had the care of your brother all this time. I know this is asking a lot. But if you cannot do it, then move away from it all. We have two chances for FAMILY. One is with out parents and siblings. The second chance is with out own kids. If one works out that is a win, to me. Throw your love onto the family you DO have, and see to it that this inheritance of dislike dies now.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
How do you know how your brother is using mom's money?
How do you know she's never spoken to the lawyer?
As to her leaving an Assisted Care Facility, no I think it would be unwise of him to allow this. She would, I assume be leaving for another State? Perhaps to visit you? She would be away from her life, her doctors, her safety, really, and unaccompanied as she traveledif she is deemed to have dementia. If you two are arguing he could well distrust your motives in trying to "get Mom with him" and then take her to a Lawyer who would blah blah blah--we actually hear those stories here, believe it or not.
What would be wonderful would be were she well enough to have him come along WITH her to see you, and visit. Or you to go to where she is.
She has given him POA. She entrusted him to act for her and in her stead for her. I have to assume he is doing this to the best of his ability. You do not mention any fraudulent behavior on his part. You say he could have chosen a better facility. These are hard decisions because it is crucial to get money to last the lifetime of the senior. Those of us trying to decide these things do the best we are able.
The wars between siblings, I have to tell you, is one of the most painful things I see on this forum. I am the mother of two daughters who do not get along at all, who do not speak. To imagine them at war over my failing mind and body is hideous. I have, therefore, given all rights and powers were they needed and were my partner to pass before me, to the daughter I see the most, who has the clearest understanding of what my wishes would be, the daughter I know and trust the best. I can love them both; but the decision is made. I can imagine wars. They are painful to think about. I can only do the best I can to put my own house in order so that no questions come up after.
Were you to expect fraud, you could go to court and ask for a court examination and accounting I would guess. That would cost thousands. And why? For what. Can you try to get along until Mom is gone, and then just leave one another be. This is so much more pain for her and for you both. So sorry you are going through it. So sorry for her as well.
The thread is a bit muddled and I may have got this ALL wrong. If so I will look for them coming to assess ME any moment!
Anyway, the same scenario is playing out with my mother. And, I am surprised because my mother is much more savvy---but my brother is being very smart and using my mother's lawyer's advice. And, I question this. As my mother's lawyer, shouldn't this lawyer speak with my mother about what her wants are and represent her interests? I think my brother is just too cheap to pay a lawyer out of his own pocket.
Now, my brother, would not even let me into my mother's house when she was in the hospital. And, now that she is in assisted living, he won't let me in either. He keeps all her documents and ID locked in the house. He won't let anyone know what is going on. And, he tried his best to keep my mother totally away from me (the only other sibling). He told the assisted living facility to not let me see my mother or talk to her on the phone. I had to go to the state to get this changed.
And, worst of all, my mother is not living her life anymore and my brother is using a doctor's certificate of incapacity, which was written while my mother had septic pneumonia, to keep her away from her home and all her assets. He has taken away her credit cards, her check book, all money---all for safe keeping. He even took her diamond ring. If this does not scream of fraud, I do not know what does. Plus, it is just plain disgusting.
And now, my mother is not incompetent (although she was for the short time she was in the hospital with septic pneumonia). My mother is back to "normal"and does take care of herself---baths, dresses, puts on makeup, makes appointments for the beauty parlor, like to go shopping and dress up, etc. She has COPD but she is healthy for a 97 year old. She likes to go out to lunch with her friends, and speak with her friends. She can't do any of these things anymore because my brother won't allow it. And it is my mother who wants to revoke whatever power she gave my brother so she can have her life back. And, believe me, she is broken hearted. She loves my brother and "does not want to hurt his feelings", but she wants her life back even more. Therefore, it is my mother who is making the changes and if she needs my help is getting the right paper work and driving her to her lawyer and her doctor---so be it.
If your mother can use a telephone, she can call a lawyer who will come to her facility, can't she?
"Then he filed the quitclaim deed in the next county"
I'd be curious to know how this was accomplished. From years of commercial real estate work in law firms, it's always been my experience that deeds and other documents affecting real property are always filed in the county in which they are located.
And they have to be, especially for ownership and assessment purposes. How else would the Treasurer's Office know to whom tax bills should be sent?
Standard legal descriptions always include the county, as well as the city or township, metes and bounds or platted property description.
Besides, how did you determine that the deed was allegedly filed in another county? And which county?
I can't think of any reason why another county would even consider recording a deed for property not within its borders.
This doesn't make any sense, none whatsoever.
as a result of a stroke or a TBI. Medical POA is in affect when the person is not able to make decisions themselves.
I used mine when my father had to be intubated, and then into an induced coma. Incompetence had nothing to do with his condition or situation.
Read the language carefully or consult a lawyer.
I see that recommendations were made similar to Barb's. Teddy, when did you contact the police to report the financial abuse? What other action did you take to report the alleged financial abuse, and what resulted from it? I.e., contacting elder law agencies (if any) in Texas, or contacting an Ombudsperson?
And what steps have you taken to prepare yourself for caring for an Alzheimer's patient in your home? How have you adapted your home? What other arrangements have you made?
BTW, when's the last time you saw your mother in person?
What you are claiming is 2 decades of abuse by a brother who has been living with and caring for your parents, hands on, for that amount of time.
You do also mention court visits. So I know you have at some points pursued at least some of this to no good legal end for yourself.
What now?
You might consider running ALL THIS past an Elder Law Attorney. I cannot imagine after 20 years of caring for two elders what finances are left to bicker over, or WILL be left. But there is the matter of visiting Mom.
It is difficult for me to imagine that your brother is legally able to stop your visiting with your Mom, even if that visit needs be supervised by his request as her POA. That is something you should ALSO run by the attorney.
At present, the worst of all this to my mind is that you are unable to see your Mom. At this point. for me, that would be what's important. As to house, house contents, cars and trucks, and accounts, pensions, etc--I am afraid that is secondary to me.
If there is a will and if there is something left when Mom passes, that will go to probate. If this brother who has been caring for his parents for almost two decades is as "evil" as you portray him, then he will have seen to THAT will long ago, and there is nothing to worry about because there will be nothing for you.
We so far have a story and it is quite a dreadful story. And we have one side of it. I cannot see any answer but the court system and an attorney if you wish to pursue it.
For me, I would be running up the white flags and writing my bro to say "Let's call this all water under the bridge and never speak of it again. I am BEGGING you on my knees to allow me to visit with our Mom at the now end of her days. I will be willing to visit her with you, should you worry I will speak to her about our troubled history, but please let me visit my Mom and express my love to her. Let her see us as brother together before she passes."
Then I would move on with my life.
What is there left here but pain and loss? Try to salvage what you can. I hope that is the light in your Mom's eyes when she sees you come to visit with your brother. I hope that is knowing they both had the care of your brother all this time.
I know this is asking a lot. But if you cannot do it, then move away from it all. We have two chances for FAMILY. One is with out parents and siblings. The second chance is with out own kids. If one works out that is a win, to me. Throw your love onto the family you DO have, and see to it that this inheritance of dislike dies now.
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