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It was an elder care lawyer. To elaborate. I was told that I would have to pay the funds, but at the same rate at which it was borrowed at. Not the whole amount. If that sounds right.
No, it doesn't. I'm not sure what the "same rate it was borrowed at" means. The interest rate would be stated in any promissory note, and that would be the rate at which it's paid back. OTOH, perhaps the attorney meant that you had to repay the funds at the rate designated in the Note or other document - that makes sense. Maybe it was just his way of explaining the interest issue.
However, I don't understand "not the whole amount.". You would pay back the principal, plus interest, which together would be more than you borrowed.
If you borrowed, say $5K, at4% interest, you would pay the $5K plus 4% interest for whatever period of time specified in the Note, and at least at the monthly rate specified.
And that total amount of interest increases the total payback amount. Payment could be over several years, depending on the amount and the terms of the Note. Does that make sense?
My understanding is loans to be valid would need to be legally drawn up, witnessed and notarized promissory note or memo of understanding that is actuarially sound (takes into consideration mortality tables). Actuarially sound means using tables so that the terms make sense.... like 90 yr old can’t lend on a 20yr as it’s more than their anticipated lifespan. And the borrower has to carry out the terms. I’d bet that Medicaid looks at these with a jaded eye & it will be placed in application hell. And for more fun, the NH may not accept the elder as “Medicaid Pending” so it’s private pay by family (as elder has to be impoverished to apply) till they clear the Medicaid application process and become eligible. Application can take months. My moms took almost 6 mos; there’s folks on this site whose parents application took 10 months.
But I do wonder if perhaps this is an estate atty, then they are telling you about a SCIN - a self cancelling installment note. SCIN were / are used for gen skip of assets by the real wealthy. It’s not a traditional loan. Usual scenario is fully owed inherited property (like Aunt Mildred’s place in Water Mill, NY) is “sold” via the SCIN to a grandchild or more likely a grandchild’s Trust. The generational skip is needed to make #’s work. If Tia Mildred dies before note paid off, the note cancels and not a part of Mildred’s taxable estate. SCINs are complex & part of a well thought out estate plan done in coordination by estate & LL.M atty, FAs, CPAs.... definitely not ever a DIY. I don’t see someone applying for Medicaid doing these. It’s a top 10%er thing imo.
The atty, are they NAELA? If not, you may want to get a second opinion from a NAELA elder law atty as to whether the “loan” can pass Medicaid review for how your state administers.
Igloo, I've never heard of a SCIN. This is a new one on me. It's amazing what the wealthy can do to protect their assets. And I worked for attorneys who handled estates of the wealthy, but perhaps not the 1%, just ordinary wealthy!
Thanks so much for the information...Right along that same line...Lets say my mother would like to just pay for my daughters 26,000 tuition bill - no loan, she just want to pay for it...Can they come after those funds as well?
Team, if your mother has $26K available to pay tuition, she's well beyond needing Medicaid.
It's not designed for people with significant assets; it's to help out needy people with extremely limited assets, although some more wealthy folks hire attorneys to restructure their portfolios so that their parents eventually can get Medicaid, drawing down on the funds available for people who are truly in need.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If your mother gifts you any money, there will be a Medicaid penalty.
However, I don't understand "not the whole amount.". You would pay back the principal, plus interest, which together would be more than you borrowed.
If you borrowed, say $5K, at4% interest, you would pay the $5K plus 4% interest for whatever period of time specified in the Note, and at least at the monthly rate specified.
And that total amount of interest increases the total payback amount. Payment could be over several years, depending on the amount and the terms of the Note. Does that make sense?
But I do wonder if perhaps this is an estate atty, then they are telling you about a SCIN - a self cancelling installment note. SCIN were / are used for gen skip of assets by the real wealthy. It’s not a traditional loan. Usual scenario is fully owed inherited property (like Aunt Mildred’s place in Water Mill, NY) is “sold” via the SCIN to a grandchild or more likely a grandchild’s Trust. The generational skip is needed to make #’s work. If Tia Mildred dies before note paid off, the note cancels and not a part of Mildred’s taxable estate. SCINs are complex & part of a well thought out estate plan done in coordination by estate & LL.M atty, FAs, CPAs.... definitely not ever a DIY. I don’t see someone applying for Medicaid doing these. It’s a top 10%er thing imo.
The atty, are they NAELA? If not, you may want to get a second opinion from a NAELA elder law atty as to whether the “loan” can pass Medicaid review for how your state administers.
Your mom CAN'T give money away in order to qualify for Medicaid.
It's not designed for people with significant assets; it's to help out needy people with extremely limited assets, although some more wealthy folks hire attorneys to restructure their portfolios so that their parents eventually can get Medicaid, drawing down on the funds available for people who are truly in need.