When my mom went into a nursing home a little over a year ago, they talked me into having her check go directly to them for convenience.
Recently, she moved to a new facility, and they do things differently, so the check needs to go into her checking account on which I am a signer, and I will in turn write a check to the facility each month.
On calling SSA to do this, they insist on speaking to Mom. I get it, they are trying to prevent identity theft. She is able to talk to them on the phone, and we have the account and routing numbers for both the old and new accounts, but Mom gets a little confused and has some trouble reading the long account numbers that are required for the changeover to take place. SSA won't let me help and ends the call if they overhear her questioning me, or me coaching her. As a result, we have been on the phone nearly every business day for the past week and a half trying to get this done. Each time it's about an hour wait to get a person on the phone.
Going into the SSA office with her would be an ordeal because of her health and shouldn't be necessary.
Making the change online is not possible because she set up an account a couple of years ago but has a lost the password and in order to recover it, they need to send an email to the email address on file, for which she has also lost the password. We tried resetting the email password, but it needs to send a code to her phone number, and she doesn't receive texts.
I can ask a doctor to write a letter saying she can't properly give the account data over the phone, but that is a problem because I would have to take the letter to an appointment at the SSA office, but their soonest appointment is mid December, and the money needs to be available the first of December so that the facility can get paid.
Sorry this is so long, but there are so many aspects to the situation and I don't know which way to turn. If anyone can offer suggestions, I would really be thankful.
1) All these things are just such a hassle and anyone wanting to know how much of one look up "becoming a representative payee" on Social Security site.
I had to do this and it required setting up an in-office appointment, answering questions and waiting for approval by mail. It was about the simplest thing I had to deal with to take over everything for my mother. I did NOT call the main SS office as you can be on hold for a long time! Call a local office. I didn't even live in the same state as mom and used my own local SS office, not hers. I brought a lot of paperwork with me and they didn't even look at any of it. The long painful part was setting up the rep payee account needed, but that was a problem at the credit union, NOT SS.
2) When you think of it they MUST be careful. If they aren't careful any family can swoop in, any STRANGER can swoop in when someone becomes mentally disabled.
This is very true and they DO check you out before approval. They also sent a letter to both of us, to notify each of us - this would allow someone who is still competent to know what is going on and give them opportunity to stop the process. If they aren't competent, it could present an issue, but if you are not a relative, they won't likely approve anyway.
3) While waiting on the phone my bro and I during the 55 minutes...
NEVER call the main office. If you live in a large urban area, it might also be a wait using an office there. Perhaps try an office that is in a smaller town. I used the local office for both applying for my own SS and for doing the rep payee and someone answered within a very short time.
So My mom and I, both understand the feeling of running around in circles with SS and picky companies.
As for the cable bill, can it just wait until the term is up and not renew, but cancel and start a new account? Being a new subscriber might also allow her to benefit from the offers they have for new customers...
This became such a nightmare due to not having her online account password and her email account being shut down, so we couldn't do it online (which would have been the easiest way); then we were unsure which address they had on file for her (my fault), then the old NH giving us an incorrect account number. Along with each of the dozen or so calls requiring careful planning so that I could be with my mom so she could talk to them - there was always about an hour wait and sometimes they would schedule a call back, other times I had to wait on hold.
I have an appointment to take the representative payee stuff in on Dec 17, but I am having surgery on the 11th and with my work and physical therapy schedule, I am canceling it and dealing with that part of the fiasco at a later time!
https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1696.html
I think if you could clearly write down her address,past bank,future bank making sure she indicates she approves of changes you should be able to proceed. Wishing you the best with this potentially difficult endeavor.
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I have her mail synced right along with mine and handle all her electronic notifications daily.
Anyway, the first thing I had to do to take over mom's finances (still living in her condo, but making too many mistakes) was to set up SS deposit to her main account so that I could close the other account and make it easier to maintain. I also tried calling SS from her condo and due to hearing problems mom kept saying "I can't understand you" (not that I can't hear you) when asked for permission to talk to me. I was maybe 3 feet away and could hear the woman, so I repeated that she only wants you to okay to talk to me. Result: the woman repeated it even quieter so mom couldn't hear. She finally asked for me and rudely told me we would have to come to the office and hung up. Poking around I found that the bank (credit union for us) has a form that changes the direct deposit. It automatically cancels the other direct deposit (had to wait to be sure, before I could close the other account.) I was able (coaxing them as they don't do it often enough!) to make that change happen. So that is one option you could use (but, SS considers us "using" mom's account wrong, bad, not legal, for SS funds), POA or on account or not. By SS rules, the only legit way is to set up rep payee.
When we moved her to MC, with the intent to rent or sell the condo, the address would have to be changed, so that I would get her tax and other documents sent to me, not to the condo mailbox (note also federal mail cannot be forwarded, period.) THAT required going in to the SS office.
As others have suggested, don't call the main SS number, call the local office. They set up an appointment for me to sign up as rep payee. I took all kinds of paperwork with me and they didn't ask for or look at ANY of it. Note even a letter from a doctor. Paperwork was sent to me and her (which she wouldn't see at this point, even though it went to the facility - no way she would understand it anyway!) This is done so that if someone is making this change that a person doesn't want or isn't aware of, they can dispute it.
Once approved, the first payment comes as a check, not direct deposit. I had to wait for the approval paperwork to complete the account set up (special rep payee account, so make sure the bank knows how to do this before you go there!!) The account is only accessible by you - not the facility, not mom, just you, no one else. At the end of the year, you have to report how the funds were used. Fortunately it can be done online AND all SS/pension funds are used for her place, the balance being covered by a trust fund.
So, best bet is to set up an appointment with a local office and ASK while setting up that appointment what, if anything, you need to bring with you, to speed up the process. It still could take a month or two to finalize. You could try the bank method I mentioned above, to expedite getting funds needed for the new NH. If the account the previous one was using has been closed, most likely the funds will go back to SS. They should reprocess any missed/misdirected payments when everything is set up. They did this for me when my disability was approved, sending the extra payments I didn't get in one lump distribution. But do keep tabs on it!
Secondly, speaking from experience, state Medicaid is paid back from the estate if over 55 (double check your state) and upon death the last monthly payment will be clawed back by SSA. I think your mom, if she can afford it and is still considered competent by the state, should consider a reasonable monthly compensation to you for your efforts. Only you will know how sensitive this issue will be to other possible heirs...
Medicare does not even recognize POA but that is another discussion.
Keep the SSA appt in December to make the change you need for the SSA checks. Until then, make whatever payments you need to on her behalf, keep a record of those payments, and pay yourself back from your mother's account.
Yes it could be totally explainable but imho you don’t want to go down that rabbit hole if you can help it.
medicaid can do recertifications. & part of that process involves submitting financials for the current year. If the SSA $ snafu should go on for a bit, by the time the $ finally comes in, it might, just might be in the window of statements required to be submitted for the recertification. Once on Medicaid, basically all their income must be paid as SOC (share of cost) to the NH. She can pay the Nh but she shouldn’t pay you as it looks like “gifting”. It’s better if you pay the Medicaid copay to NH directly & then once SS$ snafu is resolved & Nh gets her SS $ payment, then NH sends you a check for the duplicate payment(s). No questionable transactions in her bank statements this way for Medicaid or nosy interfering family.
btw it sounds like mons new NH #2 is very much on residents side in stuff as they are getting the doctors note she will need for the SSA rep payee filing. That is terrific.
Do ask whomever your dealing with at NH#2 as to how to deal with moms copay IF the SS $ snafu isn’t done by next month or January (horrors but could take 2 -3 ssa cycles) copay due date. Like if you need to “bridge loan” $ on moms behalf to the NH for her copay. You probably do not want to deposit the $ into moms bank account and then repay yourself later from mos bank account. But may be better that you pay the NH and the NH repay you personally via a check to you once SS clawback happens and your mom gets all the $. I bet it gonna be in 1 big bucks fell swoop SSA direct deposit so you have to monitor her banking daily.
also just in case nobody told you, the states can do a recertifications for LTC Medicaid. And all that paperwork you submitted first time, well some of it will need to be submitted again (like funeral pre need & life insurance policies) and then maybe 3-4 months of current bank statements, SSA changes, yada, Yada... So keep a binder going with all this, so your not in a panic say next summer when Medicaid wants it and in 14 days. I did not know about the annual recertification and had put all in storage. Fun!
If you would, let us know how the rep payee goes ok. We do all learn from each other. Thanks!
I don’t recall if we have specifically dealt with social security (I’m pretty sure we have) but I help my mom out in all her affairs.
If they don’t have a record already of my name and relationship to her, they only have to ask and I will put mom on the phone to give them her permission to conduct her business with me.
One time I think, a rep required mom to give some specific information without my coaching her. It was nearly impossible but they muddled through it and then I got on the phone.
I just explained to mom they were trying to protect her and that can’t be a bad thing.
What you are speaking of would create a tremendous burden for the poor confused, elderly clients.
So all this time, even when Mom was reading off the account number correctly, it wasn't the right number at all. Ugh!
I printed and filled out the representative payee form and had her sign it, and the new NH is getting a doctor's note, and I'm going to call the SS and plan to go Monday morning to the office.
If moms SS$ was going direct deposit to old NH, did the old NH put her PNA into a in house trust account for her.? If so, did you get all the PNA $ out when you moved her? If not, go ASAP to old NH to get that $ or place request to have it closed out & a check sent to mom. Hopefully old NH was not finding monthly charges to deduct from her PNA..... some do & it’s like for cable or in-room phone & is magically the exact amount of the PNA. My moms first NH did this on those with autopay if you weren’t paying attention.....
About SSA, to me you’re past the easily getting this changed stage. There’s too too many attempts and switching of payable accounts to pass SSA muster. You’re probably going to have to become your moms “representative payee”. Google it, & yeah it’s a bit cumbersome as has mandated reporting but probably what’s gonna have to be done.
Personally I’d go that route & you first open a new gmail account for mom (so she has a new email address), then take your dpoa paperwork, the last bank statement of your moms checking account you want her SS to go into, your drivers license and a calm attitude and go to a SsA office as they open. Office will have an intake screen and you put in wanting to become representative payee - this way you get a specialist. Most SS visitors are those on SS disability and you don’t want to get stuck in that group.
dpoa can’t be used by SSA as they do NOT recognize it. But take it anyways as it’s shows intent. If your already a signatory on her account, take that as well as it too shows intent. What hopefully will happen is they give you the packet for representative payee status for you and the direct deposit form. Fill all out & ASAP as it will kinda take 3-5 weeks for SS to process and then clawback the $ paid to old NH.
Also, due to a delay in getting Medicaid approval when she went into the original NH, the payment actually needs to go to that original NH. But when she moved out, they closed her account, so it can't keep coming there even though they need to receive it. If the issue doesn't get resolved, the money has nowhere to go, and I fear it will become even more difficult to obtain!