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We bought a house with my mil 4 years ago so we could all save money and so she could concentrate on her health and so we could all split bills and utilities and save some money. She never wound up doing anything about her health and is now at the point where she was so unhappy with her job and so physically unhealthy she decided to take early retirement and was going to quit her job after her benifits started. This past week she walked off the job so now she has no income, her benifits are on hold because she needs immigration paperwork. She told us she can still pay her part of the bills that she has some saving I am having a hard time believing her because we have no real idea what she really has when we asked in the past she said it wasnt our business so I don't trust she is being honest. I guess I am looking for some advice it is really affecting my mental health. I know we need to talk to her about our concerns but those kind of conversations in the past haven't gone well at all.

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My first thing, since you both own the home, is to tell the park owner that you want all communication addressed to you. Or each of you get a letter.

Mom taking you. Unless you need that money, I'd let it go bit would make sure you don't get taken again.
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So things have gone from bad to worse with the mil she still hasnt gotten anything resolved with immigration still isn't helping out much around the house is sitting around in her room all day watching tv and making bead jewelry she had plans to go sell some of that last weekend but didn't make it to the event because of insomnia she is still paying her part of the bills yesterday i went to check the mail and she had a letter from the mobile home community and i mentioned to her that she got a letter from the park she said it is probably about the bank changes she just had to make to the auto pay account we bank at the same bank and we all just went thru a conversion to a new bank and all our account and routing numbers changed she happened to leave the letter out where i was able to see it our rent was also raised last year but we never saw that letter she just told us she figured our part to be 350 a month we didn't question it much because it was a 20 dollar hike for us and we trusted that she was being honest with us to find out she wasn't when i did the math after seeing the letter to figure out our 2/3 of 525 that it will change to starting in Jan that came out to 350 a month and i was like wait a minute that is what we are paying now so we have been overpaying for the whole year? When i mentioned that to her she right away asked for how long so I went and got the receipts she wrote us for the whole year and told her for the whole year and asked how this happened then she asked well how much did you overpay I hadn't figured that out yet she almost ran to her room and went and figured it out herself in her room broke it down by month what the park took out of her account every month what we payed every month and figured we over payed 14.00 a month and came out with the cash and receipts to reimburse us and played it off like how could we both have not caught that we were overpaying i just find it really fishy!! Didn't try to fight or argue as per the norm just wanted to shut it down as quickly as possible to stop me from questioning her more. I am now having a really hard time not believing i was some kind of manipulation on her part to save herself some money and we were never going to catch on to it because we took her at her word last year. Just want away from this woman! We need to make it happen!!
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Your MIL has been working with no Green card? That is what a Green card is basically for, so you can work in the US. And, your not suppose to hire someone legally here without it. Has she been paid under the table all this time? If so, if SS has not been deducted and Medicare paid for out of her paycheck, then she is not entitled to either unless her husband paid into both.

Her being brought into the Country by her Mom when little does not make her a citizen. Her Mom had to file for residency to be here legally. If Mom has no proof of citizenship and no Green Card sounds to me she is here illegally. As such, she is nor entitled to any US benefits. Has she ever been out of the Country. If so, she needed a passport to travel overseas. (Canada just started needing a passport not sure about Mexico) The passport will prove citizenship. Either for the US or for her Country of origin. My MIL lived here 60 yrs but was still a subject of the Royal Crown.7

You say you are co-signers? I know how buying a car works in my state. My husband was a co-signer for our daughter. But in our state its now co-owner. The title is in my DHs name but my daughter got credit for the payments. So how does the house work? Are you all on the deed? Who gets credit for the monthly payments.

I know at the time you did this it sounded workable but look what happened. I personally would never move in with someone who had already shown she could not take care of anything and was a slob.

I agree, you may need to consult with a lawyer to protect what you have already put into the house. You may just need to move out and leave Mom to her own devices.
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Will your husband agree to force the sale of the house and start over without his mother? How much longer do you and your husband want to live with her??
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Elburs1974 Aug 2021
We have both decided we dont want to live with her anymore we just need to have that conversation with her we are both reluctant to have it because we dont know how she will react he would probably force a sale if it came down to that we are hoping she will just agree to sell i have a feeling she will tell us she can afford the house herself and tell us to just go ahead and move out but we arent comfortable with that as we are worried this house woudnt be cleaned or maintained after we move out based on what she does to help out now and her physical condition i dont think she could or would maintain and it will wind up like the house we moved her out of when we all moved in together hoarded not cleaned in years smoke damage from smoking in the house for years we dont allow smoking inside we are sure she would smoke in this house too after we leave we just again need to have the conversation with her and hope it dosnt turn toxic. We think our best bet is to have a few witnesses around when we do hoping she will think twice about getting nasty about are reasons for not wanting to live with her anymore it is way more than just her quitting her job.
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If this is a really difficult situation, I think you need to see a lawyer. You need to set up legally a situation where you are lending her the money to pay for the contributions she agreed but now is not paying. This debt should be offset against her share of the property value. Eventually you will effectually own the property outright, and there are legal ways to force a sale or transfer of title. This is a complicated thing to do – don’t try it without a lawyer. Forcing a sale immediately is easier, but doesn’t deal with the finances.

The process might also put pressure on her to provide information about her true situation and intentions. I hate to say it, but this whole exercise might possibly have been a way to force you and DH to care for her indefinitely in ‘her own home’. 'They'll never get me out now'. Is she that clever?
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Elburs1974 Aug 2021
Oh ya she can be very manipulative and nasty verbally abusive i knew she had these tendencies she was this way with my husband growing up physically and mentally abusive she never had been abusive to me or her grandkids until we were living together for a while said a few vile things to my daughter about a little more than a year ago i made the mistake of forwarding a text message meant for a friend venting about her where i said a hurtful think about her being lazy because she dosnt help out around the house much and it threw her into a rage against me and my husband wouldnt speak to me told my husband that we would be a business arrangement from now on that is when she quit helping with groceries started buying her own food and cooking it and quit helping around the house at all to punish us i guess wrote me a letter that almost broke me when she finally pretty much told me what she really thinks about me i have been with my hubby half my life opened the letter up by telling me she cant talk to me and there is nothing i can ever say to her that would fix the relationship and didnt speak to me for months accused us of using her for her checkbook just to name a few things she also used conversation we had with her in the past and twisted words to suit her agenda of us taking care of the house and her helping if she wanted is the way i took it what we actually told her not to worry about the house we had it while she was in the proccess of getting surgery to try to address the chronic pain she didnt wind up following thru with. It is a very complicated situation.
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What kind of immigration papers? Does she not have a Greencard?
If she has worked in the US and has been paying into SS she should have no problem getting it. Has nothing to do with her not being a citizen. We have people coming across the Mexican and Canadian boarders to work in the US. If they have paid into SS, they can collect.

My MiL lived here for at least 40 yrs when she started collecting SS and I don't remember her saying she had a problem then or after my FIL died getting benefits. She had a greencard.
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Elburs1974 Aug 2021
No green card her family was moved here by her mom when she was a baby she has to show proof of her citizenship atleast that is what she is telling me.
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"...in the last year pulled out of paying one of the utilities helping with groceries..." Your husband's mom is not holding up her end of the agreement. Your profile says you're in Minnesota. You and your husband must prepare yourselves for the possibility that his mom will not pay her share of the mortgage and expenses. Because conversations with his mom "haven't gone well at all", you may want to consult a real estate attorney to ask if, under the circumstances, you and your husband can force the sale of the house and start over without her.
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Your profile states she is 62 years old. Can you tell us what her health problems are?

If I'm understanding correctly -- nothing has actually happened yet:? She hasn't stopped paying her share of things?

I suggest that your husband be the one to deal with her, even if you have a strong relationship between her and you. Otherwise you'll just become the "bad guy" (if you aren't already).

It's her business if she quits her job. And her finances aren't any of your business as long as she's meeting the financial obligation she agreed to (and hopefully this is in writing). Once she actually stops paying her share then your husband can talk about what needs to happen going forward.
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NYDaughterInLaw Aug 2021
"If I'm understanding correctly -- nothing has actually happened yet:? She hasn't stopped paying her share of things?" Incorrect. OP wrote in a response "...in the last year [husband's mom] pulled out of paying one of the utilities [and] helping with groceries..."
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If you all agreed to split bills, then that still stands (hopefully you have, or will obtain, something in writing to that effect).
That's not to say that any money will come your way if none is available, although your MIL would have some equity in the property (assuming "we bought a house with my MIL" is what it says) which would act as security to draw against (on paper at least) until benefits start arriving.

Keep a ledger starting with her purchase contribution to the property (also include value of any furniture and personal items) and deduct shared expenses accordingly. As long as you can meet repayments/bills, then things should sort themselves out in the interim.

The tricky thing is accepting the family connection/obligation that may leave you making do without ever being reimbursed by the signatory, but you will have an account of expenses to claim as per the original agreement.
It does sound particularly secretive and I wonder why even her son is not privy to disclosure of financial situation... or is this only being kept from you? Immigration issues only seem to muddy the waters even more.

MIL's capacity to meet her obligations is absolutely your business as you are now partners in the property and share the risk of protecting your interests.
Get it in writing (meticulously worded) and you can rest easier.
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Elburs, welcome to the forum!

This is your husband's mom, yes?

What does he think about this?

On the face of it, buying property with someone who won't disclose their financials to you seems unwise.
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Elburs1974 Aug 2021
Yes husbands mom. I have trust issues related to her. There has been alot of abusive toxic behaviors she has displayed when we have tried to have conversations with her in the past about her health and her finances. We are pretty much sitting in a place where she is primary on our loan me and the hubby are cosigners and we made the agreement where we pay 2/3 on the house and she pays a 3rd and we split utilities 50/50 she has in the last year pulled out of paying one of the utilities helping with groceries so it was making me believe she may be having money issues and that is why i dont trust her word that she has enough saving to cover her bills and even if she does that only lasts so long with no income coming in.
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