How can I take my mother outside?

This would concern me..not for the fact that you can not easily get her out to go for a walk. What would happen if there was an emergency and you had to get her out quickly. A lot can happen before EMS arrives to help evacuate.
Has there been any thought about trying to get a first floor apartment, even in the same building?
At 103 (God bless her) a move of any sort would be difficult.
(Maybe do not call it a "nursing home" but Assisted Living. Get her out and take a tour of one.)

I think the only way to do this safely would be to get her out when the home Health Aide is there and can help get her up and down the stairs. (unless they are not able to do that)

In your profile you mention your mom has dementia.
At that diagnosis SHE no longer gets to make many decisions for herself about her care and her safety.
With a diagnosis of dementia she can not be left alone. You say that you have Aides there and neighbors that help out. That also means that some of the time she is alone. She needs supervision 24/7/365.
A move to Memory Care is the best option. I mentioned previously in my reply that Assisted Living would be an option but with the dementia I think MC is a better option. I am sure "nursing homes" AL and MC have changed a GREAT deal since your mom worked in one so what she is worried about may no longer exist.

Of course she doesn't want to go into AL, that generation is stuck in how they used to be, not how they are today.

I have one in AL and one in MC, both lovely homes, with people their own age, activities and safety.

Sitting by herself in a flat three flights in the air is not IMO a good idea, especially at her age.

Why not tour some homes in your area, bring yourself up-to-date on what they look like today. The one my step-mother is in has a beautiful courtyard that she can sit in, talk to others, draw do whatever she likes.

The reality is 2 people need to carry her down 3 flights of stairs in a wheelchair.

To pay to have her carried out once a month is $700. She's on a Medicaid Elder Waiver so the cost of her in-home aides is covered, but the cost of taking her outside comes out of your pocket.

To continue to receive Medicaid in a facility would mean she'd require LTC (in most states so you would need to check hers). And, as she is already on Medicaid, there may be waiting lists to get into a facility, where she'd be required to share a room.

Are there any strong, young men in the building who'd carry her down for $100 each person, each trip? So, $400 a time? That's the only other "solution" I can see.

I don't think there is any way to do the safely without paying for people who are properly trained and have the right equipment. Without the proper equipment something could go wrong and whoever was helping you could be in serious legal trouble.

My brother once hired a taxi to take my wheelchair bound mom, who can't transfer without a lift, to see my dying father in hospital. They sent a taxi to accommodate a wheelchair, but couldn't do the transfer as they did have the equipment. They discussed lifting my mother but didn't know how to do it properly. We had to get an ambulette which was significantly more expensive but at least was safe.

With that said, I think she would be better in a nursing home where she would have staff on hand to help with everything, including getting outside and enjoying activities she can't do at home.

I heard about funny tractor wheels that could negotiate stairs...

"14 Types Of Wheelchair That Climbs Stairs [2022 Mobility Guide] (loaids.com)"

[Disclaimer: This is provided as information only and not an endorsement of any product or company]

Are there any windows that open? Catch the sun?

I always think what a lovely day, I've just got to get outside..

But many people dislike the noise & wind outside, prefer to be safe & snug inside.

I've mentioned on another thread a lady who liked to watch 'her tree' outside the window. Had no desire to BE outside (or move from her bed) but enjoyed seeing a little piece of nature. I thought if I ever cannot get outside, I'll get a few pot plants instead.

Bring the outside in.

Ka, has your MOM expressed a desire to go outside?

My best friend's mom is nearly 102 and lives in a lovely subsidized elevator building close to the Atlantic shore. She has a large balcony.

My friend is always pestering the live-in aide to take her outside in her wheelchair, or out on the balcony, but the elderly lady has no interest in going out of doors and protests vigorously when it is suggested or attempted.

Be guided by mom's wishes in this.

Crikey. I suppose we can be relieved that the $700 does include getting her back up the stairs again.

I would strongly second Barb's crucial point that you ask your mother first.

As long as she is not merely willing but actively eager, and as long as she and your family are not given to hasty litigation, what you want is a couple of forward players from your local Rugby Union team. There will be one (oh my goodness, there is one! founded in 1929, but I can't see their address online and of course I don't know whereabouts in the city your grandmother lives either).

Or perhaps her neighbourhood fire service would be willing to help, on the odd special occasion? It can't hurt to ask.

I know you want to help bring her some happiness but there seems to be no solution other to move her to a ground floor and a move could be devastating. Her age says she's been living well and happy. Be happy and not guilty.

Talk to your local fire department. I'm sure they have something in place for volunteer work. Or, at least they might steer you to someone who could (lot's of people volunteer for the fire department and local police chapters like a Citizen's Police academy.
I'm sure someone might be willing to come and help just for the pure pleasure of helping. Firemen are trained to carry individuals. Also, here's a thought.... when you tell them this, they might consider it a safety hazard for her to live that far up with no way to get out. In that case, ask your mom if talking to the apartment people if moving to a lower floor would be feasible. God bless you in your journey!

If you are interested in pursuing this, I would get in touch with the local contract agency that is assigned to your mom's area to help elders. (In NYC, there is a city department of Aging, but there are local agencies like Catholic Charities that have catchment areas that they are responsible for). They might have some ideas. Your mom isn't the only elder living in a walkup.

Good Morning,

In all honesty, I don't think your mother should remain on the 3rd floor. What if there was a fire, emergency. I know it's a pain to move but when my mother took sick the first thing I thought of what if I was out and mother couldn't get down the stairs. I do realize and empathize with you that moving someone at that age is no easy feat.

My mother lives with me but she also wears hearing aids and would not be able to hear a fire drill without them. I know it's a pain to move but too much can go wrong and let's face it apartments all over the country are at a premium and the rents increasing with no end in sight. Mother has Lewy Body Dementia.

I'm surprised your mother's Primary Care Doc allows this. Another of my mother's friends moved from a 1st floor (she had sciatica) to a 2nd floor, then she got sick. Upon return from the hospital, (2nd floor) she was homebound. Her friends could not visit. No elevator.

A first floor or elevator really needs to happen in the near future or another placement because they (our Mom's) really are held captive in the apartment.

Since I moved my mother to the first floor, passersby stop in (neighbors) her elderly friends could visit, (who are left) and the Church people come every Sunday. It's so convenient with groceries too.

You may have to dress this up a bit and tell your Mom due to her safety a change needs to be made.

I paid a moving company to come in and box everything. They took everything out of the shelves, they came with boxes and tape. Moved everything to the new place and restocked. They broke down all the boxes. They were wonderful!
I sing their praises "Gentle Giant" in Boston--fabulous young men, professional, it was well worth the $$$. They hire college athletes! Wonderful young men! I highly suggest a company like this. These established are used to moving within senior buildings as well as the Universities. They can "soft pack" everything. You won't have to lift a finger. It's not cheap but definitely worth it.

It's hard when it's your mother at that age. It's not as if they have the strength or want to go outside? When I had an non-emergency transport for my mother upon discharge from a short-term rehab they literally had to bring my mother upstairs in a chair. The first time they sent a strapping young man and a female that probably weighed 100 pounds and she looked like she could barely lift the legs of the chair. She had a hard time maneuvering the weight. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

This non-sense that women can do anything, I beg to differ. When it comes to my frail Mom in her 80's on blood thinner, after that "one time incident" I stress to the Social Worker at the hospital, I don't care if I'm politically correct or not, next time send (2) strapping men (go to a local bar if you have two and pay two bouncers who work out at the gym) that's who I want transporting my mother, she responded, I don't blame you.

Our job is to protect our mother's. Even if it means moving them. Keep it low key. When we moved, I grabbed my checkbook, purse, my mother and we drove to the new place. End of story...

Next you tip them, give them a bottle of water and tell Mom, I'm glad your home!

It's hard to move someone at that age. But I have heard a lot of NYC living. Do her neighbors check on her. Would they miss her outside if there was a fire drill and/or emergency? Every building is different.

103.

“she can walk with a walker, cannot do stairs.”

amaaaazing :).
and i bet you’re 99.999% the reason she’s doing so well! :)

incredible.
i’d love to be 103 and still be able to walk with a walker. can you imagine? bundle of joy, age 103, walking around with a walker and still posting jokes/quotes on this forum :).

HUG, OP.
you’ve done an amazing job.

regarding nursing home:
of course not. keep her home. 103. she deserves to end her life at home :). i’m sure she wants to stay home :).

regarding how to get her down the stairs:
…they wanted $700 to take her up/down. they should be shot. outrageous. i look forward to whoever said that price, getting old and frail, and someone tries to charge them an outrageous price for an easy task. (i don’t really look forward to that, but you know what i mean). outrageous behavior.
…i hope you can simply hire some friends/nice people who can help bring her up/down. you just need a few strong people.

——
regarding she lives on the 3rd floor:
…the aim now is not to live as long as possible
…if there’s an emergency and it’s hard to get up/down, i would say: so be it. we have to die at some point. better die happily having lived at home. if she wants to move to another house, that’s another issue. but if she wants to stay home, let her enjoy home.

at 103, i’d be happy with my things, at my home, and if i die, so be it. i must die at some point. i’ll have enjoyed home.

regarding she sits all day, how to entertain her?
…i think you have a great idea to get her out of the house. i bet she’d love to see the neighbourhood.

regarding whether she should socialize with others (like in a nursing home)
…absolutely not nursing home. that’s not socializing. that’s spending time with many elderly people who are often very sick, very depressed; many of them were kicked out from their family because they’re difficult/impossible people. this means you’re forced to “socialize” with very difficult people.

getting her out of the house is a GREAT idea :).

dear OP, you’ve done such an amazing job. i doubt you need any ideas from us. if anything you should be teaching us how you achieved all that :).

hug :)
wishing you and your mother great trips around the neighbourhood :).

although she doesn’t know me, tell her bundle of joy sends her a hug, and is amazed. she must be an amazing person :). (and you too).

I'd be looking for a different apartment. Is there no windows to open for fresh air? If not, seems to me that would violate some sort of code. Keeping her at home in a 3rd story apartment where she can't get out in case of emergency is very concerning to me.

There are special carry chairs for evacuating people who are wheelchair bound when an elevator cannot be used. If she isn't too big any two strong adults could manage this. You can always hire two college students to do this on occasion, or possibly high school students if they are well developed.

https://www.goevacuationchair.com/product/go-evacuation-chair-ge-3/?utm_source=Google%20Shopping&utm_campaign=Google%20Product%20Feed&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=42&gclid=CjwKCAjw14uVBhBEEiwAaufYx8EvwORv0_sJmFc8Lzev5mVTQx_scZAeqM1GeSTr2-x2h8UauYTDYxoCm-IQAvD_BwE

From what I understand about NYC, I live in NJ, some of these old buildings are rent controlled so Moms rent may be very low. There are probably no apartments available in her building because the tenants live in them till they die. Apartments in NYC are very expensive. So leaving the one she is living in that maybe rent controlled to another may not be feasible financially.

Really, at 103 how much longer will she be here? Moving her at this point may not be a good thing.

Seems she needs a more accessible home. I am concerned about how she would escape a fire.

Having worked in the management sector of senior living I'm going to be the first to say...LEAVE YOUR MOTHER AT HOME! I've seen it many many times same type of situation they move their loved one into an ALF and within months they die. Don't do it let your mother stay at home. I had to resign my management position in senior living to be a full-time caregiver for my father who currently has Alzheimer's. He will be 87 this year and I can tell you you're doing a great job taking care of your mother if she still able to do what she's doing at 103. I will make sure my father ages out right here at home. I had my parents moving with me just a few short years ago because I knew that they were getting up there in their golden years and I didn't want them to have to deal with anything. So blessed I listened to the Lord because my mom went home to be with the Lord in 2020 (died at home) so now I am taking care of my father, but home is the best place. As a native New Yorker someone made the comment to find somebody in the building, pay them each to help her go up and down the steps and trust me I'm sure you can find some dudes that you know to help bring her downstairs so she could get some fresh air. Trust me, she don't want to get out all the time, But if you just want to be outside with Mom I fully support that God bless you and good luck.

@Kagilligan,

The sun is the best source of Vitamin D which we all need.

If your mother’s apartment doesn’t get much (or any) sun due to being surrounded by high rises or the window overlooks an air shaft or faces north*, I could see you genuinely being concerned about her access to fresh air and sun.

Could you ask a generous neighbor on the 3rd floor who has a sun-facing window or balcony if you could “book” 20 minutes in their sunshine once each two weeks, and pay them handsomely for their time and willingness?

———————

*I understand concern over lack of access to the sun. I used to travel constantly to Manhattan for business and was shocked at how little sun penetrates the long corridors of building after building after building each blocking the sun rays of the other. Good luck, I hope you find a solution to this conundrum

You are expecting hired help to get her up and down several flights of steps just for a fun outing???? I think that is asking a lot of people's backs. That is a dead lift the whole way. They can't stop for a rest in the middle of the steps.
I wouldn't want to do it. What if they get a strain, or hurt their back? Who is going to pay their doctor bills and time off? I've hurt my back. I don't wish that on anyone. That heals very slow.
I'd open windows and let her get sunshine that way.
That is a lot to ask of someone's back. 3 flights of stairs! And what is worse is getting her back up the stairs! Even harder to do! How come you don't volunteer to be one of her carriers?
I think that is crazy to ask someone to do that. And you want it done dirt cheap. Smh.

You are expecting hired help to get her up and down several flights of steps just for a fun outing???? I think that is asking a lot of people's backs. That is a dead lift the whole way. They can't stop for a rest in the middle of the steps.
I wouldn't want to do it. What if they get a strain, or hurt their back? How do they put her down in the middle of the steps? They cant. Very dangerous. Who is going to pay their doctor bills and time off? I've hurt my back. I don't wish that on anyone. That heals very slow.
I'd open windows and let her get sunshine that way. Or buy a sun box.
That is a lot to ask of someone's back. 3 flights of stairs! And what is worse is getting her back up the stairs! Even harder to do! How come you don't volunteer to be one of her carriers? Don't want to hurt your back?
I think that is crazy to ask someone to do that. And you want it done dirt cheap. Smh.
What happens if there is a fire? Who is there to rescue her?
You are asking way to much of people's backs. It would be one thing if it was an emergency, but just for fun???

I know this might sound impossible but can you get her a different living situation? That sounds awfully dangerous for an elderly person to live 3 floors up if she can’t navigate stairs alone. What would happen in a fire?

I would call the local police dept and fire dept. You might find some strong bodied volunteers, and you could contribute to their benevolent association or send pizzas or pay them. Also, if you see some contractors working in the neighborhood, you might ask them. Is there a college near by, or a high school football team...? I had my husband and his two brothers carry their Mom in a cast to the car and out to dinner before she went bananas from three months in her apartment. There are nice people around, you just have to look. And most of us are sentimental about grandparents.

Dizzerth (below) has the right idea, move her to a building with an elevator or insist on Assisted Living placement where they can treat her situation professionally. Do you really want to entrust her to strangers; there are many predators in private senior care. Sounds like an amazing woman who doesn't want to accept her physical limitations; please remind her that the body gives up along the way, but she's had an amazing ride and it's time to protect herself.

Best wishes to both of you.

She should be classified as a vulnerable adult and not allowed to live in a place she can’t get out of. Check elder laws and make sure that you have no legal liability If there’s a fire and she can’t get out. As a caregiver for family in different states and situations, I’ve been counseled several times about these dangers and told about my legal responsibilities. One I wasn’t allowed to take my relative home to his house because I wasn’t able to get him safely down the long outside stairs without help. Your mother needs a safer place to live where she can go outside and sniff the flowers when she wants. Be the adult here!

Your mom sounds amazing!!! If I were you, my biggest worry for mom would be safety. What if there is a fire, or she had an urgent medical need? As much as mom loves her apartment, maybe it is time for a look around to see if there is a building with an elevator in the same neighborhood, or maybe speak with the landlord about moving her into a first floor unit, for safety reasons. Depending on how much mom weighs, it may or may not be realistic to ask for people to fireman carry her down the stairs and back up unless it is necessary, and I feel (like you) that it would bring her great joy to be outside.

Perhaps she is content and comfortable aand at 103, a change would be most challenging unless necessary. Can you add a window box, maybe even an indoor garden? Even fresh flowers weekly might be just enough. Best to you

Kagilligan: Praise God that your mother is a stellar person at almost 103 years of age. She is an amazing individual. Perhaps she is more content than you realize in her apartment. However, is her NYC apartment classified as safe from fire, e.g. are there two points of entry and exit?

My friend has a 90-something year old mother who she schleps CAMPING with her and her husband, then posts photos on Facebook of how Deliriously Happpy mom is and How Much Fun she's having. Personally, mom looks half dead to me, propped up in her wheelchair with blankets wrapped around her in 90 degree humid Florida weather, posed with a slice of watermelon in her gnarled hand.

Last week, and I kid you not, they asked 4 burly men to CARRY mom to the beach in her wheelchair where they plunked her down under an umbrella in the sand with a popsicle in her mouth for their FB photo op. I cringed when I saw that, once again.

Next thing I knew, the daughter was posting pictures of mommy (which is what she calls her) in the ER, propped up on a gurney, suffering from a heart issue, a colon inflammation and acute LIVER FAILURE after she'd started vomiting on the beach.

This happened after 2 other hospitalizations for mommy during previous camping trips when mommy fell and broke her hip, and another where she had blood clots in her lungs!!!

This is a true story bc you cannot make this nonsense up.

My friend drags her mother on these escapades because SHE has an agenda and a love of Facebook likes and being seen as The Good Daughter. She's not taking mom's best interests to heart while putting her life in danger during these camping trips from hell. But she also can't go camping if mommy can't come because she can't be left alone at home. So there's that, too.

I'm not putting you in the category my friend is in. Just asking if taking a 103 year old woman up and down 3 flights of stairs in a NYC walk up for a bit of fresh air is in HER best interest? You dont want her to wind up in the ER like my friends mother after some farkakte plan went awry, God forbid. 😊

Just some food for thought with this true story tonight.

As Medicaid will pay for transport to the doctors, I suggest you try this route first. Instead of the doctor coming to her, perhaps you could arrange for you going to the doctors with you going with. She will thus get outside and get sunshine, and you can see how she reacts to that.