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I am caring for my in-laws. My father-in-law has signs of pre-dementia, but he is not the one that is being rude. As for my stepmother-in-law she is very capable of doing a lot for herself, but she wants to be waited on hand and foot. She lays in bed all day and screams at everyone to come to her. She can walk, dress and feed herself. She just refuses to make food for herself and will not shower unless she has someone to wash her back and feet. I thought I could handle taking care of them with home health aides come in and help, but the aides won't even come out due to her rudeness and mean comments.


I have notes from the aides and her refusing care and unwilling to work with them. Physical Therapy has come out and accessed her and believe she is capable of doing things on her own. She even has a treadmill in her bedroom, but she has never used it. I am now having to hire privately as I am my husband have full time jobs. She says things to the one aide that still comes, and my stepmother-in-law says mean things about us to the aide. Of course, the aide doesn't believe her because she has seen how my stepmother-in-law treats me. I don't know what to do, because we volunteered to give them help and now, I am regretting it. My Father-in-law doesn't understand what is going on half the time and she screams at him all the time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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You can't change people. And it is unlikely these two elders will change in any other direction than for the worse.

I think that what you have now is a marriage problem, just as much as an in-law problem. Your husband apparently wished to take his elders into his home, and wishes you to care for them.

I can't know any cultural dictates at work here, nor the status of your marriage and your ability to speak with your husband. For me this would be a deal- breaker. I would tell my husband that he has 6 months in which to place his parents in care. If that isn't accomplished I would have to leave my home and file for--at the least--legal separation.

You have hard choices to make and I am so sorry for that. I wish you the very best of luck.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Actually, it was my suggestion to take them in, I watched my father die in a nursing home. I am truly only wanting to take care of my FIL, the SMIL is baggage. Yes, my husband does not like confrontation, but it is kind of on me for inviting them. She was very appreciative well we were moving her. I thought maybe that she might change due to us helping, but once she was settled her old ways came back.
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You do not owe your idiot MIL a damn thing. Tell her that you are done. She’s mentally competent so she can figure it out for the two of them. She’s not even your husband’s mother and from what you wrote I bet she never was decent to you.

If she has any kids tell them you are not doing anything for her anymore. Put it in their lap.

Hope this doesn’t cause a rift between you and your husband and I hope he is supportive of you. If he chooses he can coordinate the in home care but take a giant step back. No where is it written that you need to accept abuse from your in laws.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
I wish she had children, but she is "all about her" she would have never made it as a mother. Oh, she is only decent to me when she wants something. The only reason she is here is because she is married to my husband's dad. My poor FIL only gets violent, when she starts yelling at him and telling him what to do. It is not health for them to be together. She needs to go, but I do not know how to separate them because they are married.
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No one can abuse you (as an able-bodied adult) unless you permit it. Leave and don't go there. (Whose home are they living in: theirs or yours? This makes a difference in the advice that is given to you.)

That being said: who is the PoA for either of them? This is the person who needs to step up and step in and deal with the situation. The PoA needs to read the document to see what activates the authority (Durable is activity immediately upon notarization, Springing usually requires one or two medical diagnoses of impairment).

If no one is the PoA for these people, and they are no longer legally able or willing to assign someone, then you can just leave them be and call APS to report them to the social workers as vulnerable adults. If you don't have any legal authority then you don't really have much power to help them as things gets worse, if they don't cooperate. The county will eventually acquire guardianship. You can pursue guardianship if you wish, but do you want to continue to deal with your SMIL? Also, it is expensive and you'd need to get it for each person (so, 2 separate cases).

Many adult children make promises of caregiviing to their parents not knowing what they are signing up for. No one would/should judge you for stepping away in this situation. You are not abandoning them, but just allowing other professionals and solutions to come into play. Please read some of the thousands of posts on this forum under the care topic Burnout. You are well on your way there if you aren't flexible and realistic about their care. Often the solution boils down to the "least bad option".
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Hi, The house is mine and we have PoA over my father-in-law as he has given it to us, when he was diagnosed with memory decline 5 years ago. His Wife (who is not my husband's original mother) has all her mind and refuses to give us PoA. I have mentioned multiple times that there are plenty of place she can go but refuses to go. Also, since my FIL doesn't remember the bad names she calls him half the time. He still madly in love with the woman he knew when they were younger. they are 80 yrs old. He would try to go with her, and that situation is not health.
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ahobbs2016, make a list of all the things that are being done for your mother-in-law that she could be doing for herself. Now you and the Aide stop doing those things.

Now, stand in front of a mirror and say "I can't possibly do that" over and over until it becomes second nature. Relay that to the Aide, and give the Aide a copy of the list.

Hopefully you and your hubby are not paying for the Aide, that should come out of your in-law's pockets, not yours. You need to save for your own "rainy day".

Also, it sounds like Mom-in-law is in denial that her husband has dementia.

I would also have Mom-in-law checked for an Urinary Tract Infection {UTI} as such an infection can cause argumentative behaviors. The test can be done at a doctor's off and even at urgent care.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
No, the aides are being paid for by my in-laws. Thank you for your advice. I will do that :).
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I am not sure how you can prove verbal abuse. But, if she ever hits you, call the police and have her removed. Really, there is something wrong with someone who verbally abuses everyone, IMO.

Your house or theirs. I so hope yours. If so your house ur rules. Tell her she is capable of doing for herself and she needs to do it. You work and don't have the time to wait on her hand and foot. That is not your job. Get her those shower shoes that scrub your feet and a nice long handled back brush. Even if its her home, you are disabling her by not making her do what she can for herself.

If they have any money, I suggest you place them in an Assisted Living. Having aides is not working for you and you should not be responsible for 2 people. In an AL, they may allow FIL if MIL is with him. No money, find a nice Long-term care facility on Medicaid where they can have a room together. FIL will get the care he needs and so will she.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Hi, I have gotten her all those things, the brush the scrubs and she still refuse to take care of herself. Shes says she is in pain all the time and has pain pills she pops every 4 hours. We have cameras throughout the house, and we have caught her walking and things all on her own, with no problem. When we go to the doctor, she acts like she can't walk, and we have to get a wheelchair every time.
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I don't know who you want to "prove" abuse to?

Have you consulted an elder law attorney about removing them?

Juse because they are married does not mean they need to be together if he needs care and she doesn't.

You can evict her.

You can stop going into her space.

You can say "no" to all of her requests.

Consider those options.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
They have elder law attorney's? I know they have family law.
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Her demands don’t have to be met by you, at all. Tell your husband this isn’t working and he needs to find another situation for his parents. Provide no care and don’t worry about proving anything
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
She says she will get me for abuse and neglect. because I offered to help her
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You need to get them out of your home now.

You're a kind person and you clearly had no idea what you were getting into. You watched your father die in a nursing home where he had 24/7 care that a sick person might need while dying. You didn't want your FIL to die in a nursing home so you took him in. Now you begin to understand why there are nursing homes and memory care facilities - you and your husband can't possibly provide the care your in-laws need. They belong in such facilities. Dying in one is highly preferable to dying in your home, which could take many years of hellacious living for you and your spouse. Also, how is this a good situation for them? They could benefit from a social life and activities.

The picture I see:
FIL gets violent. SMIL makes him get violent. (No excuse. He's violent, and whatever the reason, he should not be in your home because violence is a danger to you and others.)
SMIL is verbally abusive and overly demanding. She is in denial about this and that. (You allow her to abuse you, and her denial and abuse may be part of a broader mental illness; it doesn't seem like she's all there mentally. She may have an irrational rage disorder. She may have dementia. She may need meds.)

As for proving the situation in your home, take videos with your phone. And pictures. Lots of them. They should be proof to anyone who needs to be informed.

They have enough money to pay aides, so surely there's enough to get them into care facilities. Please do that; you don't deserve this.

Good luck.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Thank you for the advice. My FIL isn't violent towards us just towards her, when she starts demanding he do things, because she is too lazy to do them herself. When I took them in, I promised to help them as they were unable to survive on their own. Neither one of them were eating right at all. Living off ensure and crackers. They still eat those even though we have food in the house and meals that can be warmed in the microwave. She refuses to heat them up or when the aide offers refuses to eat it. She wants someone to make her food from scratch 3 times a day. I work full time and so does my husband, and I have had them evaluated for full-time in-home care and they don't qualify. I want to put her in a home and separate my FIL from her. He would be better off with us. She won't take care of him.
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If she's truly competent mentally, sit her down and tell her that due to her behavior the current living situation is not working out and they'll have to leave. Write down all the behaviors that have led to this decision, including the screaming, the abuse, driving away aides, and make it very clear that this is 100% on her.

If you're willing to give her a second chance, then tell her to consider your discussion a warning and that if there is ONE more infraction, you'll consider it her decision to move to AL. Give it to her in writing, but don't expect her to sign it because that's a whole new battle. Tell her you're prepared to start eviction proceedings.

It's time to treat her like a client, not family, because she's treating you and her aides like slaves, not family.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Thank you for the advice. I will do that :)
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Hobbs, you don't need to prove anything. This is YOUR home and YOU get to say who lives there and what goes on.

See the Elder Law attorney and make a plan for them to go elsewhere.

Meanwhile, stop helping.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
thank you
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Hobbs, on another thread, you say that you are afraid that SMIL will accuse you of abuse.

That ALONE is reason to get her out of your home, immediately.

Years ago, my mil (who did not live with us) threatened to call APS on him. He handed her her keys and walked out. He saw her again years later on her deathbed

Don't let bullies threaten you.

In your shoes, frankly, I woukd call APS and ask them to make a visit. You get to tell YOUR story and shape tge narrative. Tell them your worries about her threats.

If she threatens you, call 911 and have her taken to the hospital. And do not accept her back into YOUR home.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
thank you for your advice, have the social worker coming on Monday
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If you are this frightened then I don’t think that they should be living with you.

Find another place for them to live. Start researching facilities in your area. Tell them that it is not working out well for either of you.

You shouldn’t have to feel threatened in your own home. You are doing them a favor. If they don’t appreciate your help it is time for them to find help elsewhere.

Best wishes to you and your family.
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Ahobbs, I don’t know if you read Burnts anecdote of a client she had who would basically refuse to use the toilet and then crap herself when the dil came in and Burnt left.

Right now, you are that dil. And no, you don’t have to put up with her crap.
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BurntCaregiver Mar 2023
@PeggySue

Sounds exactly right. The OP is that DIL. My client would hold it for her DIL. The second that poor woman stepped in the house at night her MIL would crap her pants all over the place.
She finally took my advice and let her sit in it until her husband (client's son) got home from work. He had to clean her up and they were both mortified.
The client never had another "accident" for her DIL.
The only way the OP gets out of that role of villian in her step-MIL's game is if she refuses to continue playing.
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Next time she goes to the doctor's take those tapes and show him what she is capable of.

My MIL chose to move to Fla 15 hrs from us, 12 hrs from another son and closest son 7 hrs. She had to do for herself because she had no children around her. Her BIL and Sister were up there in age so could not help. I think it would have been different if she had stayed here with her passive-aggressive personality. I think she would have relied on my DH more. And he would have done because he could. Would not have given up his Golf, but would have done for her. Me, not so much. She burned that bridge long before she left. I had my own Mom anyway.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Doctor knows, he sees right through her manipulations.
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AHobbs, any updates?
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Hi Barb,

Well Social Worker came in and said you will need to find another place to live. We had an independent living rep come in and talk with her yesterday. She complained we aren't feeding her 3 meals a day and the guy was like well here is your option to fix for that. My SMIL said if I have an option I am staying here. I do not understand her thinking you are telling people we aren't providing but you are fighting to stay here. That doesn't make sense to me.
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Today you stop tolerating her abusive nonsense. Whe she screams and demands from her bed you tell her to shut the hell up and if she wants something she can get it herself or do without it.
When she's hungry enough she will get up and come to the kitchen.
Next, instruct her aides that they are not to tolerate verbal abuse from her. Also, when the villifying language of you starts up, make sure the know to shut that crap down immediately.
Let her know that if she refuses to shower that no one is going to tolerate a disgusting, stinking mess. That if she is so invalid that she cannot take a shower without supervision then she belongs in a care facility with a full staff.
If your FIL doesn't know what's going on in his own house then he doesn't have pre-dementia (is that even a real thing?). He has actual dementia and someone needs to get him to a doctor for some cognitive testing. He may need homecare or even AL.
I was an homecare aide for 25 years and operate my own homecare operation now.
I've had many, many clients like your step-MIL. You've got an entitled senior-brat on your hands. The way to break them out of this behavior is by doing exactly what I'm saying in this post.
So, let's recap:

-Everyone (including her aides) stops humoring her and waiting on her hand and foot today

-When the rude comments and verbal abuse start up tell her to shut up and then walk away and ignore her.

-When she starts making demands and barking orders tell her if she wants something she can get it herself or do without it.
No catering to her and no tolerating her tantrums or verbal abuse.

-Make sure the aides don't tolerate it either and they shut her down when she starts villifying you.

-If she refuses to wash or shower she can stay in her bed. No one do anything for her. Don't bring her food, don't talk to her, don't anything.
If she can still do for herself she must be forced to. Nothing is more important than maintaining whatever level of independence a person can.

In the meantime, it would be a good idea to start looking into different care facilities for your step-MIL and your father. They may not be good candidates for assisted living because an AL will not tolerate your step-MIL's behavior.
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PeggySue2020 Mar 2023
I really recommend not saying “shut the hell up.” Honestly, 25 years or not, I wouldn’t be paying a caregiver who ever said that and I wonder who would.

Id just say “don’t yell at me” and leave as you suggested. If they get tantrums, then say the line about how stubborn elders get ticketed to a nh.
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Call Adult Protective Services and let them know your in-laws need to be evaluated for placement because no one is available to perform caretaker services. Get yourself out of that toxic environment.
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
Well she called them on me last night so we will see where this goes, I have a letter from the Home Health Agency that she is capable of taking care of herself and refuses too.
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If she wants to be treated like a queen and wasn’t born into royalty then I suppose she has to hire a staff or else enter a facility.

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. Have you looked into finding a place for them to live?

If you don’t mind checking out places that would be suitable for them to move to, hand them a list of places that have openings and tell them that you will gladly help them pack up their belongings and even drive them to their new destination!
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ahobbs2016 Mar 2023
yes, but she doesn't want to go look, because she doesn't want to pay for the help.
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Great that she called! Welcome them with open arms!

She wouldn't want to live where she is being abused and neglected would she?

She'll need to seek accommodation elsewhere.

APS can help with that.
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I'm so glad you are seeing a lawyer.

She sounds mentally ill. You may end up having to evict her.
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BurntCaregiver Mar 2023
@Barb

APS will do the work for them. The OP won't need to do eviction.
They are vulnerble adults and elderly. The state will take them out of the home and place them.
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I agree with those who say welcome APS with open arms. Tell them the history. Tell them you can no longer take care of them either physically or mentally and ask about steps to get them placed into care.

I can only say that this is a tough warning out to others who take elders into their own homes. Once done it is extremely difficult to get them out again.
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Scampie1 May 2023
There is an old saying: Visitors in your home are like fish. They start stinking after three days.
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@ahobbs

Your step-MIL actually called APS? Good. That's the best thing that could happen here. Put on a pot of coffee and tell APS to come on over. Let them take it from here.
What happens now is because step-MIL got too cute and went too far with her wicked little games, APS will remove her and your FIL from your home and they will get placed. I'm sure it will be against their will, but if they are vulerable adults and there's no one else who will take them in, this is exactly what will happen.
So many of our beloved seniors and kids don't understand that you don't cry abuse where there is none. Not getting your own way every minute of the day and not being waited upond hand and foot is not abuse. You don't play games with APS, or Child Protective Services, or the police because they will respond.
My friend's daughter did this when she was a young teenager. A spoiled little brat whose parents gave her everything. Love, attention, a beautiful home, you name it. She was out of control. Sneaking out at night, skipping school, getting high. All kinds of bad things.
One day she was berating and demanding her mom give her money. When she was refused, she came at my friend who defended herself. She left bruises on her because she restrained her to the floor.
That girl went straight to the police and called the DCF (child protective services in CT) to spite her mother.
They put her in a foster home for six months were she actually suffered abuse. After her anger and rage towards her parents subsided, the state didn't just let her go back home. She tried to run away and was put into a security facility for minors which is basically kid jail.
It was a whole process with the state to let that kid back home.
Same thing with your step-MIL.
Never call the state unless it's real and serious. Your step-MIL's little game will backfire in her face.
Wave good-bye to the two of them from the porch when APS puts them in a van.
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JeanLouise May 2023
Could be her out!
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🌿🌿🍅🍅🌽
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As with a demanding child, don’t indulge tantrums. Calmly and objectively inform her of what’s available and she’s welcome to help herself to whatever. Then walk away. Be consistent and stand firm. Good luck!
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Film her.

Then tell her this is not working out and you and hubby will be finding them another place.

When did we middle age kids decide that our parents could ruin our lives and put such burdens on us? I'm 58, and I already have a care plan in place so my children will NEVER have to care for me. I took care of them. It's not a two-way street.
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Way2tired May 2023
@ teethgrinder, To answer your question “ when did we middle age kids decide that our parents ruin our lives……..?” . I’ve asked the same question . I am the same age as you , my in laws are failing and don’t want anything to change . My grandparents did not act like this . They acknowledged their age and limitations .
This generation expects their lives to never change. They expect us to do for them to “ maintain their independent lifestyles”.
For some reason we were groomed for this by our parents. My mother told me at an early age I was to take care of her when she was old , I took care of both parents , until I could not any longer , then they went into a facility which they didn’t want .
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I feel so bad for you . I guess go to an elder care lawyer , call APS . Others may have other suggestions. I just wanted to say how sorry I am.
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You don’t mention their son (aka your DH) aside from the fact that he is working which is very telling. If you have the finances to do so or have family who can help you, tell your husband you cannot handle the stress and abuse and you are moving out until he figures this out. Not your problem. This is his responsibility and you are being taken advantage of big time.

Women always get exploited when it comes to caregiving.

Good luck.
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I wouldn't do it. You are not responsible for any elder. I would contact APS and report self-neglect. Verbal and mental abuse are the worst type of abuses. I would rather get beaten up physically (LOL) than to endure ongoing verbal and mental abuse from anyone! I had a case like this a year and a half ago and had to leave it. It came down to me finishing off the shift, called the agency and telling them I would not be back. This old woman had managed to infiltrate my psyche with her ongoing nasty remarks and criticism. I allowed her to run me ragged. She was a 90 something year old with a toddler's mentality. I tried to figure out for months what the heck I did wrong even after I quit the case. Some people are narcissistic and will find one person who they can dump all of their problems and hostility when they are about to explode. It's not fair, and I think once people realize that caretakers are not going to stick around for this trash, they will either stop or be placed in a senior home setting.

This woman has made up in her mind that you are going to serve her. You are your own person. Women get taken advantage of and dumped on by family. Don't fall into this trap. It sounds like your dh needs to be forced into action by your inaction.
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