Have to take away Dad's driving privileges- but how?

Well. The people with clout - the ALF management and the DMV - don't seem to think there's a problem. And although you mention health issues, including heart disease, you don't specifically mention sight impairment, dementia, anything that is an obvious bar to safe driving.

Can barely walk - lots of people with disabilities who can't walk at all can still drive. There are even specially adapted cars for the purpose.
Hard of hearing isn't a help, but deafness does not stop you getting a driving licence.
And being 93 does not of itself make you a danger on the road.

I hesitate to ask if you've accompanied him recently (and managed to keep your eyes open and not dig your fingernails so hard into the dashboard that you had trouble getting out of the car again) - but what deterioration in his skills can you report as a fact?

You could try setting up other transportation options for him to use "some" of the time. Maybe find good reasons to use them rather than the car or suggest it to prepare for the time when he can't drive any longer (I know that time has come but he doesn't yet) or you could talk to his doctor about finding a medical reason he shouldn't drive for a while, until cleared again, maybe a new medication or one of his medical problems prevents it being good for him. Unfortunately the best time for this seems to be when they are being released from a hospital stay but perhaps there is a way to improvise on this. You could also go that step further and disable the car so he would have use other methods of transportation until the car "get's fixed" but only you and your family know how doable this is and how much he would participate in getting the car "fixed" or simply let you do it. Just idea's I don't know the best way to go. It does seem bizarre that the AL is ok with him having the car and driving but maybe they aren't considered responsible if he goes out a kills someone.

Did the DMV renew his licence automatically? Or through the post?

I reported my father to the DMV and they sent him a letter requiring him to have an eye dr and other dr sign papers saying he was in good shape to drive. They didn't and he lost his right to drive.

I think you need to listen to the doctor.

Sorry, it just isn't your choice unless his doctor suggests he is not in any mental or physical way able to drive. It took quite a serious accident to get my 85 year old brother to give up a car. Well, actually it was demolished, but damage was done by a big refuse container, luckily, not in a collision with another car. Only my brother was hurt and he lay in the arms of a woman saying "I knew something was wrong". Admitted to me after the police took the license that he had made several mistakes and he was very relieved he didn't hurt someone. He was feeling desperate as it was his only mode of transportation. Without it he was pretty much forced into assisted living, and that in fact is what happened. I hope your Dad will not badly injure another or himself. You say that DMV gave him his license. That pretty much says it all. It isn't up to you, but up to them to decide what testing he does, and if he can pass. Yikes. And sorry.

Give him a Smartphone, an Uber or Lyft app., and a gift card to use Uber.if Dad voluntarily gives up his car on his birthday.!

Phone and service: $50/ mo.
Gift card $60/ mo.
Total $100-200
He can pay this himself, but a gift will get him started happily.

Point out the sale of the car, (he doesn't have to sell it):;
the car insurance refund,,
no more car registration fees,
All that can keep him in Uber rides for a good while.

The reason he can keep his car is he can easily hire a driver instead of hiring someone to give him rides in their car.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DAD!

If the family all gets together to give the Uber gift cards, Dad may think about it and decide himself.

Dad can be proud that he has his license still at his age.

Have it laminated, put it on a permanent plague to hang on the wall for his birthday.

Things do not have to get all "legal", and be "taken" from our elderly drivers.
If you give up the "have to" and allow Dad to decide gradually, he will decide on his own to change his transportation mode. Providing several alternatives fod getting around independentky could help. Afterall, he must have been making some good decisions and living a safe life for the past 93 years.

Taking him to the senior center to a class on safe elderly driving could help his mind get ready. The Auto Club has dvd video to self-test your driving safely
ability. Response time, being able to turn your head to look behind you.....all contribute to being able to drive. Checking his car for dents, little fender benders
will give you more information..

Can I inquire what information you have besides his age that makes him unsafe?
We have had many questions in the past about how to get the car and license
away from a drunk driver, or someone on too much medication, reason I ask.

I am not doubting your sincerity, and I myself will not drive past 80. Voluntarily.

After all of my mom's friends quit riding with her because her driving scared them, and she was diagnosed with dementia and Alzheimer's, I took the keys away and took her down to the DMV and indicated to them that she didn't need her DL any more, but she needed some sort of ID card,  they "traded" the DL in for the ID card.  It CLEARLY states on it that is NOT a DL, but it looks like one, only a different color in the background.  I let my mom keep it for a while until she "lost" it, and then I made her look for it, until I found it.  I said I was keeping it from that point forward because I need it to take to doctor's appointments, plus other things.  No problem since then.  The car I have insured in MY name, the gas to fill it comes from MY money, the oil changes I pay for, and I paid the other half of the payments on the car, so we "co-own" the car on a technicality, even though the tag agency still shows it is in her name.  When I think about it, I can go down and pay the extra cost and put it in BOTH of our names since it has now become essentially mine anyway.  It is the only car I can use to take her and her stroller and cane and supplies in.

I have mobility issues (at times I can barely walk and need to use a cane) and several medical conditions (severe asthma, high blood pressure, hiatal hernia, chronic pancreatitis, cholecystitis, spinal stenois, osteoarthritis in the spine, both hands, left hip, knee and ankle) - enough that I am retired on disability. Although I have moderate hearing loss (requiring hearing aids) most people still consider me sharp as a tack too.

Is it "nuts" that I'm still driving?

I ask because your original post (1) doesn't list any actual driving impacting diminished skills or health conditions and (2) there seem to be several normally qualified people apparently believing your father's driving is just fine.

Just getting old does not disqualify a person from the normal privileges of living. I have known a 96 year old that was a very safe driver and a 58 year old that was not at all safe. My mother was a very safe driver as she aged (even into early MCI) because she "adjusted" her driving to accommodate her age related declines by only driving during "off" hours on sunny days, taking slower and/or less trafficked routes, always using red lights to make left turns, etc. Although he had no physical impairments, my grandfather was not a safe driver in his early 70s... I still vividly remember my last trip with Grandpa. I was riding shotgun when Grandpa decided "I've waited long enough" and turned onto a busy street just in front of an 18 wheeler... I'm so grateful the 18 wheeler could brake enough to miss us!

Does your father have actual driving impairments or did you just assume that when his decline was enough for AL he also shouldn't be driving either?

In North Carolina u must renew in person after age 66 and pass vision test. They accept request for driver review from Doctors and family members too. And that will require a road test

Ride in the car with him when he drives. When that is no longer possible, due to fear, then have the DMV intervene. At 93 it's no longer about his preferences, it's about the potential collision with a 16 year old, that results in death. My 75 year old father sucks at driving, and refuses to stop, no matter how many dents and dings happen to his car. So talk to the DMV, If he "needs" to drive, in the interim, solve dad's driving needs by driving him wherever he "needs" to go. Or ride along as a passenger, he needs to get to the point of NOT enjoying it. Driving might be a freedom thing. The assisted living place "allows" him to drive because it's not a prison. By enabling him to have that car at the AL property , it's only a matter of time before he kills someone. Storing that car off property would limit his driving, but wouldn't permanently stop it. the DMV revoking his license is your best option. I'm doing the same thing,especially since I refuse to ride in his car while he's driving

I think someone else mentioned it, but a lot of senior centers and I believe AAA have senior defensive driving courses. They can sharpen his skills and identify aging related issues, he can talk to other seniors about their driving adventures, and get a discount on insurance. Upon completion of the course, he'll have to take the certificate to his insurance agent. Maybe you should go along or better yet offer to take it for him and have a little chat with the agent about what problems you see with his driving. If they feel there is too much liability, they won't insure him or will put him in a risk pool, which will be costly. That alone may change his mind about driving.

Good luck! We told Dad that we worry about him, but more importantly all the crazy people out there. What if he was followed to the car and bopped on the head by someone, or worse, injured someone, or had a medical issue while driving. Be ready for the arguments and yelling, but it has to be done. Tell him a few times a week, you or someone will take him out for errands. Does the ALF take the residents out for day trips? Sign him up for those. Best of luck to you.

Maybe limit his driving instead of completely taking it away

Remind him that he could hurt someone else and that he could lose everything in a lawsuit.

My dad has neuropathy and Parkinson's, when his reflexes started to slow, I had the conversation with him (although my mom and sister didn't see an issue with him driving). I told him that I know he CAN still drive, it's other people I was worried about. Right or wrong, people are on their cell phones and distracted and I didn't want to get a call that he killed someone or someone killed him because he couldn't react fast enough. I also told him that I don't like driving because of distracted drivers. A week or 2 later, he made the decision not to drive. Good luck! Tough conversations to ask them to give up their independence!

When my father was in his late 80s, his driving skills had deteriorated to the level of being dangerous not only to himself and my mother, but also to others on the road. He wouldn't listen to reason when I tried to explain to him that it was time for him to stop driving because he was a danger to himself, my mother, and others. He simply told me he didn't care (he was severely mentally ill, which complicated things). I understood that given several changes in his and my mother's life, he was desperately trying to hold on to his independence, and being able to continue driving was one of those things that would help him retain his independence, I remember what it was like when I was a teenager and got my driver's license and the sense of independence it brought. So, I understood where my father was coming from. But, because my father wouldn't listen to me and because I knew that if he found out that I had initiated the revocation of his license, he'd never talk to me again, I called his doctor and asked him to intercede, but also requested that he not tell my father that I was the one initiating this whole process. The doctor respected my request and never told my father. In requesting that my father's doctor initiate the relinquishing of his driver's license, I gave him specific instances that others and I had observed over many years, with my mother's caregiver having very recently reported a hair raising experience that she felt lucky to have come out of alive. Some examples I gave my father's doctor were his swerving into oncoming traffic, over compensating and ending up on the shoulder of the road, etc, etc, etc. My father's doctor agreed, given the specific instances I told him about, that it was time for my father to stop driving. Since my father had a benign brain tumor that had caused seizures awhile back and for which he was taking seizure medication, his doctor was able to contact the state division of motor vehicles to report that this condition was impairing his ability to drive. The state division of motor vehicles immediately suspended my father's driver's license pending his taking the road test and having his eyes tested at the driver's license office. My father had macular degeneration which affected his central vision. He failed the eye test at the driver's license office and was told that they needed a note from his ophthalmologist. His stupid ophthalmologist wrote a note saying that my father's macular degeneration, even though it affected his central vision, shouldn't prevent him from driving because he still had good peripheral vision. So, my father then took the road test and failed that. As a result, his license was subsequently revoked, much to my relief. Yes, he was very upset. But, once he realized that he could save money by not having to pay car insurance, car maintenance and car repairs, he accepted it. His city has a dial-a-ride available, and he knew people who were willing to drive him places at times. And, the facilities he lived in had shuttle service to various places. So, he adapted to that.

My suggestion is to start with your father's doctor and explain the situation and give specific examples that highlight his deteriorated driving skills that make him a danger on the road. Maybe your father has vision problems, some dementia, or other medical conditions. Request that your father's doctor call the state division of motor vehicles and report that one or some of these conditions make it dangerous for him to drive so that his driver's license should be suspended pending your father retaking the road test. And, if you don't want your father to know it was you who initiated this, ask the doctor to keep your request confidential from your father.

I'm running out of characters here, but will do a separate post on how I handled it with my mother-in-law.

Good luck!

Here's how I handled this with my mother-in-law who was a terrible driver even in her younger years, but got worse as she aged. For her, like many elderly people, driving symbolized her independence. So, she wasn't about to give up her license. She had had a number of minor accidents where nobody and no cars, but her own, had sustained damage. But, she would fall asleep at the wheel, would get too close to parked cars on the street, and would become easily distracted, among a number of other things. Riding with her was always a harrowing experience. She wouldn't listen to either my husband or my sister-in-law when they tried to reason with her that it was time for her to give up driving. So, my sister-in-law asked me to talk with her, which I questioned why she'd listen to me when she wouldn't even listen to her own son and daughter. But, I decided I'd try. While my mother-in-law had early dementia, she still retained her logic and reasoning power. So, I simply appealed to those two things. I told her that we were concerned about her driving skills and that her home health aide had recently expressed concern and fright when she was a passenger in my mother-in-law's car. I then explained to my mother-in-law that she could cause an accident that could cause serious injury or death. Her initial response was that if she got killed, that was fine because she was ready to die. I then asked her what would happen if she came out unscathed but had seriously injured or killed people in the other car. And, how would she feel if the occupants of the other car were a family that included young kids or if it was one or both parents of both kids in the other car. I asked her if she would be able to live with herself knowing that she had either caused serious injury or death to an entire family or to one or both parents, leaving kids without parents. I then told her that she would likely either end up being charged for the injuries or death, may spend time in jail, may be sued by the other family, and would very likely lose her license. I also told her that if she could live with the knowledge of having seriously injured or killed others, she was more than welcome to keep driving. My mother-in-law was a caring person, so I knew I could make that latter statement without her telling me she didn't care. After I was done speaking, my mother-in-law immediately stood up and stated that she was giving up driving. She went to her bedroom and got her car keys and handed them over to my sister-in-law. My sister-in-law then had a cousin drive the car to his house and keep it there. The cousin bought the car from my mother-in-law soon afterwards.

So, if you can appeal to your father's logic and his empathy toward others and help him to see consequences of his driving that he'll have to live with, you might have some luck. This didn't work with my father because he not only was extremely stubborn, but was also severely mentally ill (Narcissistic Personality Disorder which prevented him from caring about anyone else-- only himself and what was convenient for him). If you can't appeal to your father's logic, then talk with his doctor (see my other post on how I handled it with my father by involving his doctor in the process).

Quadriplegics use wheelchairs and can drive a car (adaptive equipment, etc). They cannot walk, but can pass a driving test. Assisted living means just that - he is able to live with a little assistance. Doesn't mean he cannot drive.

Have you been in the car with him and observed dangerous driving? Does he just go to the corner store using side streets and slower traffic areas? His age doesn't determine his ability to drive. His reaction times and close calls, if any, would determine that.

Not really enough information for us to offer suggestions - other than get in the car with him and see how he does.

Allot of good options mentioned. Something easy until you figure it out is to have the battery disconnected and pose that the car has an issue and needs to go to the shop. Get vehicle to family member or friends home. He will know it is gone and you will just have to come up with mechanical excuses for as long as you want.
Will calm worries of him driving and begin the time frame of him not driving. Similar with my Dad - had his vehicle taken into shop for check and needed work that I told him was too expensive and I had the vehicle sold as I had him sign title years ago. He was angry about loosing it and it went on and on complaining but it solved the issue and no drama or injuries.

My mom has Alzheimer's and after she hit a car we made it so her car wouldn't start any more ........ told her it was "broken." Fortunately she didn't have the knowledge on how to get it fixed. But your dad may be smart enough not to fall for that.

Others stated excellent methods for actually ending the driving, such as disabling the car or appealing to his reason. I'd hope to allow the dad an option so that he's not stuck when he wants to be on the move. May I suggest the Uber or Lyft option, with a simple Jitterbug phone with its number embedded that can call for a ride at any time for sightseeing or running errands? This may help, and he can critique their driving for a pastime.

A couple of things: take a walk around his car and see if there are any dents or dings or signs of running into something. If there isn't any body damage, that's a good sign that he's probably doing OK. Ride with him and actually see how he does. My Mother was driving until 95 when she voluntarily gave up driving because there were too many "crazies" on the road. I made it a point to ride with her at least once a month to see how see did and how comfortable she was driving. She was right to quit driving when she did as the increased development and traffic has led to a lot of craziness on our roads. If it's obvious that he is not doing well or if his eyesight has diminished below acceptable levels, follow some of the suggestions that others have given you. You might remind him that if he is in an accident -- even if it isn't his fault he will be blamed just because of his age (not fair but true). In this case, he runs the potential of being sued and could lose all his assets.

"Borrow" his car. Several family or close friends "all of a sudden need to borrow his car". A kind soul, he will comply IF he has access to a ride whenever, wherever to where he wants to go (Think family rides, Uber, Lyft, etc. just to get started and then make it) ....Helps also with socialization and healthy lifestyle of activities. The good news is companionship, fun, interesting visits occur daily or weekly as he wishes. Did this when my Mother's time came, and everyone pitched in, but no concerns of accident or death in auto he is driving. Makes him feel good about himself "loaning a vehicle he has" voluntarily and just (somehow saves him money, easier, deliveries he needs - meds, dinner delivery, etc.)

Working in the medical field I clearly remember a doctor explaining to a patient that the doctor was sure the patient did not want to hurt anyone or be remembered for doing so. My mother was also in her 90's and sharp as a tack..driving like a younger adult in heavy traffic..fortunetly she only drove short distances.,..ride with him..he may do just fine ..reflexes ?eye sight?hearing?all are fatally important...How far is he driving?are kids present?allot of activity?you could also ask the local police to just "accidently "get behind him and evaluate him..at least you will have peace of mind this way...good luck

Look at previous 'driving' topics on this site as there are lots of ideas and suggestions from others' questions in this regard. And:
* Take a part out of the car so it doesn't work.
* Get MD to be 'the bad guy' and get an official document / letter that is sent to DMV and ALF where Dad resides. WRITE to the CEO of his MD practice or report this MD. Would the medical facility/MD/CEO prefer that others get killed crossing the street?
- Write a letter to your local paper mentioning the name(s) of the MD who say this.
- Of course he'll get DEPRESSED. This is what happens as cognitive and health declines and a person loses their independent. What is wrong with this MD???
- GET ANOTHER MD.
- Contact Michael Finney (in San Francisco Area, KGO radio and TV) and ask them to intervene. You might also have a consumer advocate where you live who is a public personality (TV show or radio).
* Read Teepa Snow's website and a specific webinar about this issue. You want to make another the 'bad guy' and support how your dad feels about the situation. You don't want to be the target of doing something like this to him.
* If your dad might be inclined to call the police (as some do), you notify them and let them know of the situation so they can be on alert.
* Notify your Dad's insurance company and let them know how you feel. If they are on alert and esp with an official letter sent to them - if they take away Dad's insurance, you are not the bad guy. If they don't, the insurance company might be liable if your dad injures - or kills - someone while driving. I don't know, but if I were an insurance company, I would not want to be in this position.
* Sounds like first step is getting an MD's official notification. I'd go over your MD's head and report him. If s/he works alone, I would contact the Medical Board.
YOU are trying to take responsibility before something awful might happen. Others needs to do the same. Gena.

I can so relate. My dad however can walk fine and does a slew of other things an ageist society would not expect. Just yesterday a neighbor sent a message to me via Next Door and said "do you know your dad is outside mowing the lawn? I think it's too hot." And I wrote back that no, I didn't, and I agreed, but YOU stop him. He's made it to 102 and this is how...by being active and engaged. My dad can't hear. But many far younger are deaf and able to drive. He also deliberately calculated having two cataract surgeries prior to his license renewal in order to be sure to pass. They were so minimal the tech wasn't sure the MD would even go ahead. But yeah, that would be my dad's reaction...to become depressed if he were grounded. I can't control him. I've accepted that. I understand safety is a concern. In fact, my dad had a stinker of a Chevy and he got a new car the end of last November. I think the only thing you might be able to do...unless harsh and wanting to risk the depression...and unless there is a significant safety risk...is to work on accepting the situation for now. I would though make a nice little list of all available resources from senior transportation to private drivers and leave it for him. Clearly his self-esteem and independence is at stake. So long as he is in control and make the decision to let someone else drive, it has a better chance of success. Maybe he doesn't want to bother you? If he has a resource list, he won't have to...

I guess a lot of young people can't understand that Uber and Lyft are foreign words and concepts to a lot of older people. For you it is an easy common solution. For a lot of older people it doesn't even compute. My mother had never even taken a taxi, let alone Uber or Lyft. My husband hasn't either. Don't you have to have a smart phone to call Uber or Lyft? I can do it, but my husband has problems with his first generation flip phone. Personally, I know I can't drive forever, and I have plans. If something happens to me, my husband will be dependent on nieces to take him around. I pray he will go first, because his niece is already talking about the fact that she knows of some "inexpensive" places to put him while she takes his house. Needless to say, we aren't even talking now.

As for Dial-A-Ride and Senior Buses, you sometimes have to sit for an hour or more while you wait for them. I see handicapped people at my gym waiting and waiting for an hour or more for their transportation. The same at the grocery store.

I had the same problem with my mom. For many years, she owned a car and drove to the supermarket on her own. A few years ago, we realized he eyesight was getting worse and even though the MV bureau issued her a new license, they never examined her eyes. My husband and I felt that it was time she stop driving but she wouldn't hear of it. I understood why, it took away her freedom. Since her car was on lease, when the time was nearing to renew it, we had her go to a good eye doctor. He gave her the bad news that her eyesight was not good enough to continue driving. We told her that he reported this to the MV bureau (even though he didn't). She, of course, complained but when the lease on the car was finished, we just turned the car in. I take her to the market now and her doctor's appt's. Small price to pay for her safety and the safety of others.

Disable the auto by removing a key element.