Former caregiver taking my mother to her house from AL. How do I stop this?

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Former caregiver taking my mother to her house from AL. How do I stop this?

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A well intentioned former caregiver who charges my mother by the hour and wants my mom to move home secretly takes her to her home. My mother doesn’t tell me that. We haven’t done anything with her home or furniture because we’re waiting on LTHC approval. These visits are terribly upsetting and she becomes isolated and combative with staff when she returns. I’ve taken a hands off approach but this is becoming a problem.

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Do you have Power of Attorney for Health and Finances for you mother?

Have you spoken to the AL social worker about not allowing your mother to be taken off the premises without your permission?

The caregiver sounds as though her intentions are for her to be paid as your mother's full time caregiver; she may be trying to get mom thrown out of the AL. I'd shut this down ASAP.

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Yes, I have POA. AL does not have authority to stop her, they do not have social worker.

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The caregiver doesn't sound very well-intentioned. She must know that these visits home upset your mom and affect her behavior once she's back at the facility. And any decent and professional caregiver would not find it necessary to do anything for her patient in secret.

This caregiver has stepped way over the line. It's time for a hands-on approach.

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She’s also kept her out past her med time. I had not been told where they were going or when they were scheduled to be home. I was a wreck.

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When my Mom was in AL, they couldn’t have control over freedom to leave the facility. We got an order from her dr. that she could only leave with family. If this person goes against your wishes and it negatively affects your mom, ask for a prescription to limit or stop this. It’s mentally upsetting for your mom. The AL has to follow dr’s orders.

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You have Mom has Dementia/ALZ . If you have POA, you can stop this. I had to give Moms AL a list of people allowed to take her out of the AL. Tell the Administrator that only with your permission is Mom allowed out of the AL. You may be able to ban this caregiver from seeing Mom. My Moms AL had a entry keypad. If you didn't know the code to get in, the receptionist allowed you in.

You don't pay this caregiver now do you? If so, why.

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No I don’t, but I think my mom is promising pay later down the road. She’s determined to move back to her house. Without sharing details here her drs have said no. Med management major issue. But, other physical limitations as well. Yes, she has dementia, but she is very convincing that nothing is wrong with her.

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As her POA you can ban her from visiting. You can tell the AL this person is not allowed to remove your mom from the facility. It isn't a social worker that implements this, I would talk to the administrator and put it in writing.

Anything done in secret is problematic, if it is okay, what are you hiding?

I would contact the caregiver and tell her what her actions are doing and that she needs to stop doing anything that causes mom so much upset.

If she chooses to ignore you, you can file an injunction for no contact.

I would also change the locks on the house, she could be helping herself to what she wants.

On the other hand, you can let them deal with it and live with her meltdowns. If they won't stop the outings after you put your wishes in writing they are playing with fire. If something happened while she was out, they would be responsible.

This is a tough one, picking your battles when you have someone that alleviates your burden is difficult.

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WHAT THIS CAREGIVER IS DOING IS CONSIDERED KIDNAPPING!!! NO MORE HANDS OFF APPROACHES!!! When she does it again, call the cops and tell them that what she's doing is endagering an elderly patient. Then press charges. I'm surprised that APS hasn't been called. Stop being so passive and start protecting your mother!!

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I'm not sure that's true if mom is free to come and go or even if she's free to come and go with aproved people and this caregiver is approved. Sounds to me like that is exactly the situaltion. this caregiver is being "hired" by mom to take her out to do errands etc so I'm not sure you can call it kidnapping or an APS offense until and unless the caregiver is no longer being paid and no longer on the list and expressly told she is not to take mom off the premises or barred from them entirely. My impression is this caregiver worked for mom while she lived in her house before she moved to AL and the extension of her visits and responsabilities is meant to help keep things similar and help the transition. I may be all wrong on that and reading into the OP with my own colored galsses but still I don't have the sense it would be easy to make a kidnapping claim, yet or call the OP "passive".

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Talk to her doctor about them ordering her not to be taken out.

If the AL cannot comply with doctor's orders, then it's time to move her to a secure Memory Care unit.

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Please consider talking with the former caregiver. Explain the situation.They may not have the professional knowledge and skills to recognize your mothers's limitations and risks. They may also think that what they are doing is what she wants and not recognize the fall out. It is also important to understand that if your mother is in an AL it is not a health care facility, rather it is based on a hotel model with some additional services such as medication administration made available. In this model of care she is free to come and go. If her cognitive or physical limitations are significant then it is important to make sure she has a POA and use it. A move to a more appropriate setting is most likely necessary. It is also important to understand that older adults such as our parents can while still competent, have the right to make bad choices.

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This AL has to know Mom has limitations and Dementia. They do a care plan every 3 months. Her Mom can no longer make informed decisions. My Moms AL was very aware that my Mom was not to leave the building. And other residents. I was very careful when coming in to not allow any resident out.

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Please consider talking with the former caregiver. Explain the situation.They may not have the professional knowledge and skills to recognize your mothers's limitations and risks. They may also think that what they are doing is what she wants and not recognize the fall out. It is also important to understand that if your mother is in an AL it is not a health care facility, rather it is based on a hotel model with some additional services such as medication administration made available. In this model of care she is free to come and go. If her cognitive or physical limitations are significant then it is important to make sure she has a POA and use it. A move to a more appropriate setting is most likely necessary. It is also important to understand that older adults such as our parents can while still competent, have the right to make bad choices.

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An AL is supposed to be for people who need minimal assistance, it isn't designed to be a memory care or a nursing home. Many are multi floor buildings so there are not always eyes on each unit or the door, especially during evening and weekends. Even when someone does see a resident leave they simply can not be expected to strong arm them into staying - my relative works part time evening and weekends at the reception desk of an AL and is a senior herself, I've often told her it isn't her responsibility to chase residents down the street!

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This former caregiver sounds more than a little bit shady. I'm sure she realizes what this does to your mom ( if mom creates a big enough problem AL may evict her and low and behold, former caregiver is available to come take care of her again) could she be helping herself to mom's household items? Maybe. Personally I'd change the locks on the doors, if an attached garage, disconnect the door opener and place a lock on the door rail so it can't be opened. Inform AL to ban former caregiver from visiting, be frank and tell them that her visits are too upsetting to mom due to caregiver trying to get mom to go back home behind your back. Has your mom been giving this person money? Are you mom's poa? If not, get it done. Having mom miss meds puts her in harms way. Do you know the caregiver's address? Send them a registered letter ordering them to stay away from mom physically, and not to communicate with her in any way. Email them too. Let them know that if they cannot abide by your request that further legal action will ensue. Follow up with a good elder lawyer, you may be able to contact your local district attorney office for help, the people who work there are very helpful. Who knows, has this person done something like this in the past? Good luck to you

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Tell the AL facility that your Mother is not to be taken from the facility. The caregiver does not have your permission to take her out. If she removes her from the facility she can be charged with kidnapping.
Other than this being a bit shady there is also a huge liability issue if something were to happen. Knowing you do not give permission for your mom to leave with this person the facility could be liable if something were to happen, the caregiver could be liable as well if something were to happen.
Are you POA or Guardian? If so you can not take a "hands off approach" as this could be dangerous. And I do hope you have your moms house inventoried and I would also suggest changing ALL the locks and if there is a code for the garage change that as well.

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I am POA, not guardian. I have been concerned about her house. When I said I’ve taken hands off approach I meant, yes I’ve talked to caregiver thought we were on same page but that didn’t last.

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How very sad. Your mother has her own home and cannot live in it. What a way to end a life. Why can't she live in her home with a caregiver and other family members assiting and taking turns? I think it's so unfortunate that we live our lives and are too busy to assit the people who raised us who only wanted the best for us for 18 years but it's just too much to return the favor. I feel sorry for your mother.

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Shar, sounds good but in reality its never like that. Fiinding good trustful caregivers is hard. It always seems one child takes on the burden and the others get to do their own thing. 24/7 care is very hard without some backup. Dementia is a horrible desease and so unpredictable.

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The caregivers actions are unacceptable only if you have informed her they are. If you have taken a hands off approach as POA and the caregiver is acting under the wishes of your Mother and has no idea of your displeasure, she is hardly at fault. I suggest you get more involved and let the caregiver and ALF know of your disapproval. If the caregivers visits don't cease after clear communication then you can take proper action. Communication is key. Good luck to you.

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Maybe I left that detail out, I have talked to her and explained why. It’s stopped for a short while maybe two weeks and began again.

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With dementia your mom can most likely be easily convinced to want to go home. It may not even be her idea. If this care giver would stop interfering your mom would most likely forget her wish to go home. Can you explain this to the care giver? When my mom first went to assisted living there was another resident who kept convincing my mom that she needed to go back home and off they would go down the street holding hands, with absolutely no idea where they were or where they were off to. Finally the other resident had to be put in memory care and then my mom's need to go home vanished. She's never mentioned it again and has even forgotten that she has a house.

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As Samsung said talk to the Caregiver first. Tell her that you are asking she is no longer take Mom out of the AL and why. That you would appreciate her not even mentioning home. That "home" is not an option anymore. That Mom needs to adjust to her surroundings. Don't tell her ur planning on selling the house, etc. Tell her she is welcome to visit because Mom enjoys her company and you appreciate all she did/does for Mom.

Don't tell her you have talked to the AL but inform the AL what people are allowed to take her out of the facility. Tell them and put it on the paper, that the Caregiver has been informed that she is no longer allowed to take Mom out of the facility. That if she tries, they are allowed to ban her from the facility. Their responsibility is to keep Mom safe.

If you don't feel comfortable with this caregiver, then ask the AL that she not be alone with Mom. That when she visits, she is to visit in the common area. Believe me, the CNAs have big ears. Residents talk and they hear. So if she continues to talk about "home" a CNA will hear. Moms AL was small, 39 rooms. So I knew most of the staff and would feel comfortable asking them to watch the Caregiver.

I agree too, to change the locks on Moms house.

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JoAnn,
That is really sensible advice. Agree with your thinking on this situation.

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Yes the AL has authority, you give it to them. You are her POA because she no longer can think for herself. You have a right to say who and who cannot take your Mom out of the facility. You can tell them if the Caregiver insists to call the police. Mom can no longer make decisions. This is for her safety.

I will bet, once you tell the Caregiver she can no longer take Mom out, her visits will become less or not at all. Your Mom was probably a cash cow. Caregivers get on average $10/15 an hour in private pay. Your Mom may have been giving far more.

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How well do you know this caregiver? If my mom was living at an ASL I wouldn’t want someone to take off with my mom unless I gave her permission to do so and I totally trusted her. Doesn’t seem right. I’d question it.

I would also tell whoever is in charge at your mom’s ASL your concerns about your mom’s safety and emotional well-being.

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Given that the plan of care is addressed and supposedly calls for your mother not to leave the building, it is time to meet with the facility director and/social worker. Your mother does sound like her level of care and need for supervision is no longer appropriate for AL. Too often residents are moved too slowly to the next level of care. Sounds like you need to push harder to provide more appropriate care. The caregiver needs to know that what ever her intentions are, for the safety and well-being of your mother "outings are no longer acceptable.

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After being on this site for a while I quickly learned that assisted living facilities come in varieties. Some are more hands on and some are there to only provide a safe environment and meals. The one my mother was in did not get involved with who visited or took them out of the facility. The only requirement was they signed out and then back in. Having said this I would visit with the administrator and ask for guidance with can be done about the situation with the caregiver, as this situation is ripe for malfeasance. It could be a simple as your mother asking to go home to visit and she helped her and now can't seem to say no when she keeps asking again and again.......or she is setting your mother up to get access to her home and finances. In either event, it needs to stop. You may have to confront the caregiver with threats of legal action if she doesn't back off. Just make sure you have the legal authority to do so, as in POA. Good luck.

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It certainly can be purely selfish and about money but I don't think it's uncommon for caregivers to get attached to the person they are caring for and think they know what is best for that person, getting carried away with how much they insert themselves. They need to be gently or firmly reminded that they can make those decisions with their parents/family but this is not her mom it's yours and the decisions just like the ultimate responsibilities are yours not hers.

In this case given that she's so well meaning and you obviously believe that, maybe start with cluing her in on just how disruptive and harmful these visits home are on your mom even though you know her intent is the opposite. The fact is Mom isn't going back home to live, it just isn't practical, possible or safe for her (Mom can't afford to pay this caregiver for 24/7 care and she wouldn't be able to provide it anyway) because she is needing more care and that's just going to increase. The best thing for her in many ways is to adapt now to living where she is going to be as she declines and needs more skilled care (this is assuming it's a facility that offers AL aft IL and or other skilled options) and the thing this person who has been and is such an important part of mom's, the family's, life and care is for her to help make the transition easier. If taking the "you are so important and valuable...we need your help" approach doesn't work then it's time to shut her off, she is no longer allowed to take mom out and if she continues to persist in sneaking around with mom, not playing within the guidelines you and the facility set, then her visits will need to be curtailed and controlled more by you. You will have to start "approving" each visit and touching base both in the beginning, during (depending on length) and at the end of each visit to get a report on what they do etc. Make it clear you are keeping a closer track of her time with mom as well as how it affects mom's behavior because if it's going to upset her enough to make her harder to deal with or less comfortable with her current living situation then her time with mom will come to an end. You could even start by deciding her "services" are no longer necessary but of course since you know she cares for mom and mom cares for her she is welcome to "visit", without pay of course along with the rest of Mom's friends and family. Her visits may dry up quickly at that point but if they don't and she is still disruptive (still undermining the situation for instance) then it's time to take her off the list of approved visitors. I hope I wrote this clearly enough (I was distracted while I did) and it's clear I'm suggesting a progression starting with the here are the facts we could use your help conversation and ending with cutting her off from your mom but giving her every chance to jump on board in between. That's my suggestion anyway, I haven't directly been in your position so far though so I'm not speaking from direct experience as others might be.

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I am confused...if the woman is a former caregiver, why is she being paid by the hour? Is your mom paying her to take her to her house? If so, how does she do it? Cash...check, etc. Who has financial POA? Stop the cash flow and see what happens.
I would chat with this woman about her liability during the time away from AL. It might get her to realize her vulnerability in taking this step.
And I agree with other comment that you should change the locks on the doors to the house... you might even tell her the house is in escrow. Good grief, what will happen when you do sell it?
Perhaps you need take your mom there to say goodbye to the house for closure on that chapter of her life.

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Here in Michigan, it's prohibited for caregivers to take clients to their homes. For many reasons. I would report this to her superiors.

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I've read in many articles that "people with dementia often deny that they have dementia." They can even fool themselves (and sometimes others) into thinking they are mentally "all together."

As POA, you have been given a gift of responsibility in caring for your mom. Both of my parents (now deceased) had dementia issues. My mom had Parkinson's disease and my dad had cancer which brought him to the point where he just couldn't make wise and healthy decisions for himself or my mom, so I was required to do this for them. (Both parents had 2 doctors state in writing that they could no longer make financial and health decisions. My dad willingly signed over the legal documents for me to make decisions first for my mom and then later for him.)

At the AL facility where my mom resided, we gave an approved list of people who were allowed to take my mom places. We also gave a very short list of people who could not have contact with her. Most facilities recognize that there are people, including family members and even grandchildren, who take advantage of the elderly and the vulnerable. The facility personnel, like those responsible for their loved one, don't want to have people visiting who will harm their resident in any way.

I had a great attorney who would have willingly assisted me with making sure my parents were safe and would have readily advised me in this situation. It would cost my parents' trust account to do this, but I (and my family) would have recognized it a justifiable expense—anything to keep our parents safe!

My parents' house was sold after my mom passed away and my dad had to move into a nursing care facility. I took time to discuss with my dad how much it cost to hold on to his nearly empty house. We did some updates to the house, took Dad through the house, sat outside for a bit to share memories we had for the years he and mom and us 5 kids grew up there—along with the years of hosting family gatherings with the grandchildren, and we even talked about the neighbors who had passed over the years. It was a sweet time—difficult, but necessary. Dad for those moments knew that the house was going on the market and that this part of our lives would change. Because we have the hope of a forever home in heaven, we've known all along that someday we will leave this earthly home and that all of this pain and turmoil will come to an end.

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This was so sweet.

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Busymom, what a sweet time with your dad. It was so thoughtful of you to take the time to help him say goodbye to his home in such a meaningful way.

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JoAnn's original advice sounds very reasonable. I understand there is grey area because your mom pretends she is somewhat still in charge with decisions to move back home. Time for another sit-down with the caregiver and explain how her "good intentions" are causing problems with consistency of care and making it more difficult for your mom, you and the facility. If she really cares about your mom's best interest, she'll cooperate. May be best if your mom is attached to her and to actually start paying her, which put you back in the drivers seat to set an agreement about how to schedule a visit and what/when/where those visits will happen.

As her POA and her daughter you are trying to protect her, and no one can fault you for that. But, it's also tricky because you have not been appointed as a guardian, so legally Mom can still make some decisions for herself- even if they are poor choices. You might feel more comfortable knowing what your rights/responsibilities are by talking to an elder care lawyer or ombudsman at the facility if they have one. If the caregiver is interfering more than helping, try explaining to both your mom and the caregiver together that they need a break from each other for a while. If the caregiver turns on you and accuses you of trying to overrule your mother, you may have to go as far as a restraining order for the caregiver, so know your rights. Keep us posted!

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You may need to fire the care giver overstepping her authority and legal boundaries. You can do this being the POA. Of course, your mom will be upset. There are many issues - legal - that could arise with someone, unauthorized by YOU, moving an elder - in case of injury when out and in her care, she could be responsible for medical and legal fees. Tell that caregiver that there is much more (legal) responsibility involved than 'just' taking your mother out for a change of scenery. Have her sign an Agreement - a binding agreement - outlining her responsibilities and duties - and include what is NOT allowed.
As Barb said "I'd shut this down ASAP" - I wonder why you haven't done this already? Don't wait for something to happen. Your mother is at potential risk. If needed, get a letter from an attorney directed to a caregiver and what they can and cannot do - and what they are responsible for. A caregiver who wants to hold on to whatever assets they have, or not end up with nothing - will change their behavior immediately. However, YOU need to step up and take responsibility being the POA requires. Gena.

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Too little information here. I had POA for my uncle but it required that I make decisions as he would have made them. He also was still of sound mind, so he was free to make whatever decisions he wanted. Same for my mother in law. A POA does not take away their rights to make decisions about themselves, including leaving a facility, unless they have been declared to be incompetent to make decisions. I am not at all clear whether your mom is incompetent nor what the terms of your POA are nor whether you can substitute your judgment for hers. I know elderly people whose family members have POA, but the elderly people are still of sound minds and love going out for lunches, shopping, rides, even rides to their old neighborhoods and homes, with those caretakers who have become friends. Even the ALs take residents out for bus rides and will take folks by their old neighborhoods, allowing their clients to share their memories of the neighborhood and home with others on the bus. If there is no sinister motive and mom is of sound mind, I don't see how you can stop her from leavin the AL with anyone she wants to. Unless things are not on the up and up, or there is harm or she cannot make decisions for herself, AND if your POA allows for you to substitute your decisions for her.

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Her Mom has Dementia and is in an AL. Can no longer make informed decisions. She feels the former caregiver (got the impression she just visits not being paid now) is taking the mother out of the facility and taking her back to the mothers home hoping the mother will go back to her home so she can again be her caregiver. This causes problems when the Mother is taken back to the AL.

I think the AL is temporary because AT1234 says:

"We haven’t done anything with her home or furniture because we’re waiting on LTHC approval."

I think this means the mother will be going to a LTC facility meaning she needs more care than the AL is able to provide.

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I am my mothers caregiver and POA. As you have informed the care giver that you want it to stop. You now have the right to pursue further options against her. AND YOU SHOULD TELL HER SO. She must know your mother has dementia, and knows full well that anything your mother promises is not legally bound by. (nor are you responsible) I would definitely check into that part. I would also get an attorney to become her POA ASAP. If this caregiver can take advantage of your mother, so can anyone else. Don't fool around. God only know what else your mother may have told this woman. I also handle all my mothers finances. That way no one can take advantage of her. Both our names are on the bank and checks. Things to look into. Always have your parents best interest because there are a lot of shady people out there. My Mother in laws caregiver got her to give her all her jewelry while we didn't know. Even her diamond ring was missing when she passed. Oh she was nice and sweet to our faces... It took a lot of legal work to get even some of it back. Please don't wait for that to happen.

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So, the former caregiver goes to visit your mother, your mother says she'd like to go to mother's home, and the former caregiver duly takes her there and is often late returning to the facility with her?

Well, at least she is bringing her back, I guess, that's something.

I agree with posters about talking first of all to the caregiver, and explaining how upsetting this is after the event. She needs to understand that the visits are anything but a kindness when it comes to your mother's real welfare. You might also suggest techniques the caregiver might use to change the subject of conversation and redirect your mother's requests to go home.

Through this kind of conversation with her, you should be able to figure out if the caregiver is getting the message or not. If you get nothing back but stubborn or mutinous silence or tearful arguments, you're going to have to be kind but firm and explain that the trips home have got to stop or you will be forced to take more formal steps.

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Former caregiver taking my mother to her house from AL. How do I stop this?

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