My Father-in-law has started to try to fist fight my husband. What can I do?

Do you think FIL is expressing himself with his fists rather than verbally because he's losing his ability to communicate? Or perhaps your husband is "just there" at the time FIL gets mad about something? Is physicality a new means of his expression or has he been physically abusive to others in the past?

Either way, the verbal abuse is bad enough but physical abuse is frightening. I would think it's time for your husband to stop helping FIL. Like NOW.

MIL sounds subservient and not challenging; does FIL bully her too?

Perhaps you could e-mail or write to the other siblings and tell them that your family demands, jobs, etc. are being neglected and you need to spend more time on them. Therefore, your husband will not have the time to help his FIL any more. Let them help out if they think help is needed; then they'll see how violent FIL is.

If you're religious, ask your pastor/priest to talk to your husband as well. If you yourself have family members that would support you, ask them to intervene and express concern to your husband.

If you think it would help, you could ask local police for guidance - they would probably advise that your whole family stay away from FIL.

I'm wondering also if there are any police reports of his having been involved in other physical outbursts in his home town.

Does your FIL get physical with anyone beside your husband?

"He is a Vietnam vet and was an army ranger helicopter pilot in Vietnam."

Has FIL ever been diagnosed and/or treated for PTSD? Rangers saw a lot of action during the Vietnam War, and even those who weren't in special ops came back traumatized for life.

OK, so FIL has always been a bully and everyone has just put up with it. But this is different. Your first letter was worrisome but the following letters are downright scary. It sounds as though something, possibly dementia, has turned him from a bully into something far worse. Keeping father and son apart is a good start where your family is concerned but what about your MIL? Who will keep her safe if FIL turns his anger on her. I have no real experience with this sort of thing so cannot advise you where to go. But others can. Your pastor, a social worker, mental health worker, the police. SOMEONE, soon.
I applaud your decision not to leave your husband. He needs you and your support.
God bless and protect you.

Also, if the family is going to call on your husband for help when the father kicks off, then the family has got to back him up with a united front. Would there be any mileage for the short term in suggesting that he must not ever go alone, but must have at least one other (preferably burly) sibling with him at all times? Easier to restrain somebody without hurting him if you have overwhelming force at your disposal.

I don't care how busy or distant the other family members are - if it's considered all right for your husband to cover thousands of miles in this cause, then it's all right for the rest of them too.

It would be lovely if your husband would consider counselling. I'm guessing that idea might not quite get off the ground, though..?

If your husband is satisfied and certain that there has been a steep decline in his father's mental state, then that is a fairly straightforward thing to report to the medical/welfare authorities. He could call his parents' family doctor and discuss the situation. He could report his concerns for his mother's safety to APS in the area. US gun laws are a befuddling mystery to me, but presumably there is some way of reporting it when a licensed owner appears to be going off the rails? These are all simple options, but I do realise there's nothing simple or easy about the situation - just hoping one of them might look like a possible way forward.

Dear Babe,

I feel compelled to write because of your situation.

The constant I have seen from caring for my mom and being on this site for over 4 years is that people have a hard time understanding that Dementia is a mental illness, it's progressive and it can be dangerous because it involves other people. Patients with Dementia don't just lay there and cope, they continue in their world doing what they think is right but they can't make those decisions anymore because they're Demented.

Your FIL is demented. That means that there is no reasoning with him. Period.
Whatever his background is or whatever he has accomplished in the past is the past.
Today and tomorrow he is demented. That means that he is capable of Crazy.

Combine that with PTSD and flashbacks and his physical strength and you now have Dangerous.

This is called Elder Rage.

Like it or not, at some point someone has to get the guns and subdue this man before he flips out and really hurts someone. There are documented cases of dementia patients seriously harming and sometimes killing.

I am not telling you this to be dramatic but to make you aware that you are dealing with Dementia. If he is acting out like this, what little thing will it take to set him off where he will go nuts on say, the meter reader?

Dementia is the most devastating disease because of the people surrounding the patient. Dementia comes in on sneaky feet and slowly takes over. The changes can be gradual until something like what your husband experienced brings it all into focus. Even then, most people have extreme difficulty processing what has happened and more importantly Why it happened.

You have all of human nature in play here:
Grandma says just keep him happy. Because that's what she does to survive in his world.
The siblings say: What's the big deal? Because in order to deal with their father they have to face his dementia and disrupt their lives.
Your husband has seen the beast in person and is probably heartbroken at the bottom of it all. That's his Dad.

The reality is actually simple. FIL is very sick and whatever you do is going to make him angry and you sad. Right now there is no upside.

It's hard to wrap your brain around and it was hard for me. My aha moment was when I was griping to a doctor about my mother and he lost patience with me and said: Whaddya expect? She's demented!
Whoa.

That caused me to totally change how I managed the situation.

I will mention one more thing:

Some time ago I responded to a caregiver who posted on the Grossed Out thread about her dad.

She was trying to reason with him about moving into a facility and she couldn't understand why she wasn't getting through to him. In the meantime she wrote about how he was smearing poop on the walls in the bathroom.

For some reason she couldn't connect the fact that if her dad was smearing poop on the walls in the bathroom, why in the world would she think she could reason with him?

If your FIL is trying to beat up your husband why in the world do you think anyone can reason with him?

When I pointed this out she became angry with me.
Classic 'shoot the messenger'.

Good luck Babe. Taking care of my mom and dealing with Dementia was the hardest thing I ever did.

Venting is a good tool and there are amazing caregivers on this site to hear you.
Keep writing!

lovbob

Dear Babe,

I feel compelled to write because of your situation.

The constant I have seen from caring for my mom and being on this site for over 4 years is that people have a hard time understanding that Dementia is a mental illness, it's progressive and it can be dangerous because it involves other people. Patients with Dementia don't just lay there and cope, they continue in their world doing what they think is right but they can't make those decisions anymore because they're Demented.

Your FIL is demented. That means that there is no reasoning with him. Period.
Whatever his background is or whatever he has accomplished in the past is the past.
Today and tomorrow he is demented. That means that he is capable of Crazy.

Combine that with PTSD and flashbacks and his physical strength and you now have Dangerous.

This is called Elder Rage.

Like it or not, at some point someone has to get the guns and subdue this man before he flips out and really hurts someone. There are documented cases of dementia patients seriously harming and sometimes killing.

I am not telling you this to be dramatic but to make you aware that you are dealing with Dementia. If he is acting out like this, what little thing will it take to set him off where he will go nuts on say, the meter reader?

Dementia is the most devastating disease because of the people surrounding the patient. Dementia comes in on sneaky feet and slowly takes over. The changes can be gradual until something like what your husband experienced brings it all into focus. Even then, most people have extreme difficulty processing what has happened and more importantly Why it happened.

You have all of human nature in play here:
Grandma says just keep him happy. Because that's what she does to survive in his world.
The siblings say: What's the big deal? Because in order to deal with their father they have to face his dementia and disrupt their lives.
Your husband has seen the beast in person and is probably heartbroken at the bottom of it all. That's his Dad.

The reality is actually simple. FIL is very sick and whatever you do is going to make him angry and you sad. Right now there is no upside.

It's hard to wrap your brain around and it was hard for me. My aha moment was when I was griping to a doctor about my mother and he lost patience with me and said: Whaddya expect? She's demented!
Whoa.

That caused me to totally change how I managed the situation.

I will mention one more thing:

Some time ago I responded to a caregiver who posted on the Grossed Out thread about her dad.

She was trying to reason with him about moving into a facility and she couldn't understand why she wasn't getting through to him. In the meantime she wrote about how he was smearing poop on the walls in the bathroom.

For some reason she couldn't connect the fact that if her dad was smearing poop on the walls in the bathroom, why in the world would she think she could reason with him?

If your FIL is trying to beat up your husband why in the world do you think anyone can reason with him?

When I pointed this out she became angry with me.
Classic 'shoot the messenger'.

Good luck Babe. Taking care of my mom and dealing with Dementia was the hardest thing I ever did.

Venting is a good tool and there are amazing caregivers on this site to hear you.
Keep writing!

lovbob

Your husband's siblings might think it's no big deal, but what about your husband? What does he make of his father's behaviour?

If he is concerned there has been a sudden change in his father, or if he has any concerns at all about his mother's welfare, then he needs to take action early on. What you can do to help him is carry out research about advice centres, reporting procedures and social services support in his parents' area so that he has all the information to hand if he wants it. You can also encourage him by being matter of fact and constructive in your approach, keeping your emotions and worry as low key as you humanly can. Emphasise the practical side of the things, the responsibility, the purpose of facing problems and dealing with them. If he feels he's taking useful steps with a point to them, he might be more likely to get on with trying to improve things rather than simply soldier on.

Very worrying for all concerned, I'm sorry for it.

Is the friend who broke up the fight someone your husband can talk to about concerns over your FIL's deterioration? I agree your husband should keep a low profile for the time being, but then again it sounds as if that in itself could be a source of conflict in the family - very difficult. What's your husband's opinion about his dad's mental state? - same old same old, or does he agree there's a change?

Oh holy God what a HORRIBLE thing to happen with your friend, BB. Impossible not to wonder if anything anyone could have done might have averted that disaster, even though obviously there's no point or meaning to blaming yourself. Awful, you must have been so shocked.

But, as you clearly do see, a cautionary tale about sticking one's head in the sand, too. Doesn't make it any easier to know what you should do, but it does underline that pretending nothing's wrong is not a good option.

Stick with him, he needs you. His father sounds like a classic monstrous patriarch. But he is mortal...

When my dad found out he was losing his drivers license at age 91 he became extremely distraught. He wasn't physical as you described your FIL but his behavior was completely out of character as it seems was for your FIL becoming physical with your husband. We called the local police believing dad needed mental help. We already knew he had dementia but struggled with how much of his issues were the dementia and how much was personality or regular mode of operation, (narcissism) in his case. This moment was a turning point for us knowing he could no longer function appropriately without our intervention. Local police were not helpful. They would not get involved in domestic cases but rather only criminal cases. Even with several guns in the home they simply asked him if he would harm himself or others and he straightened up and told them no, so they left. Several weeks later I found him very confused and again distraught and called his doctor. He told me to take him to the hospital and he called ahead to let them know the situation. Dad was checked out completely physically and then admitted to the geratric psych unit. Fortunately I had all the POA and advanced health directive papers with me. He spent two weeks and they would not release him without us removing both his car and his many weapons and the ammo. He was furious but he was safe, we were safe, and others were safe with the added bonus of blame sifting off us. With dad's dementia and reasoning issues we found dad could not recall correctly he situations events. This later helped us to find an appropriate memory care unit where he is today. Just know you are not alone in this tough road. It's awful how one person can traumatize an entire family but family dynamics are tough and then mix in dementia and it becomes overwhelming. Reaching out helped me a lot in recognizing it doesn't matter whether the issues are dementia or 'personality' related, they are simply not appropriate and must be dealt with. We found the doctor to be our best help in our journey but nothing would have happened without the proper POA papers.