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I agree with midkid58. My Dad was diagnosed with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) in his 40s. This was BEFORE dementia set in in his mid 70s. He 81 now. He was a master manipulator then and even more so now because he has no shame. I grew up thinking he was just selfish, stingy and mean. I’m very self sufficient as a result. I CALMLY explain that I love him and he is in God’s hands when he threatens suicide. I tell him I will pray for him; ask Jesus to bring him some peace and comfort while he is still with us. I remind him all of if his paperwork is in order and he will he buried according to his wishes, then kiss him on the forehead and walk away. An hour later, it’s as if nothing happened so I offer to take him for a drive, which he refuses. Yes he’s very depressed and on meds for it, but the prideful narcissist is still in there, who will say anything to get his way! Ever see a toddler tell their mom “I hate you”. That statement can be soul crushing if you don’t realize how selfish a toddler is and will do anything to get a reaction out of you. Its best to recognize this and not become his emotional hostage. You still love him, just don’t fall for the manipulation. Establish some well defined boundaries as a caregiver...if he says x, I will say x or do nothing. Caretakers aren’t God. We’re just his agents of kindness and good deeds, who have no control over our loved ones decisions. Establishing boundaries has been a sanity saver for me. I’m at peace if my Dad does commit suicide because I’m just a good daughter... not Jesus Christ. I wish you the best.
Thank you psyclinz for being the voice of reason!!! Suicide threats are real no matter what the age. Young or old. I don’t know what the hell people are thinking!! I guess they want their LO to hurry up and die!!!
Some of the comments below regarding suicide threat are misleading, unhelpful, and potentially harmful. The father-in-law is ELDERLY. Midkid58, if you 'grew up with it' then your mother's use of it as a 'threat' is quite a different situation. Your mother was not elderly. What some commenters don't seem to realize is that suicide rates are HIGHER in the elderly than the general population, suicide rates peak for youth AND the elderly. Don't forget the numerous stressors that elderly folk face - living with chronic diseases of older age, losing spouses, suddenly living alone, loneliness, isolation, loss of independence, loss of income, loss of friends and family members as they age and die, deteriorating hearing and eyesight and so on and so on. How do you think all of that feels when it's all happening at the same time? For many, it is overwhelming.
Don't base your choices strictly on your FILs threats, cuz sounds like he may need a mental evaluation. (Don't give him the keys back if you know he's unsafe to drive...cuz you cud be liable for future accidents). Elderly throw tantrums sometimes, but his coping with not driving can be helped by a psychologist, or temporary antidepressant med. We have to do the right thing, & it's just hard sometimes. Best wishes.
I'd call his bluff, but watch him if he continues. As CG's we have to make the hard choices and it stinks.
Using the suicide threat is VERY effective (I know, I was raised on it, mother used it to 'scare us' into compliance--how very sick is that?) but after a while--it loses it's 'scare'.
You know this man better than we do. Do you really think he'd rather die than not have driving privileges? Or is this a scare 'em tactic?
I am firmly in the "you aren't able to safely drive and so we need to do this" camp. Mother pitched a fit when she couldn't drive again after hip replacement, but she has no strength and she cannot see over the dashboard!
Make sure he isn't left housebound---that's humiliating to a person who has been free and easy--as long as he knows how to get rides and such--he'll feel less a captive. (Ubers are great--but so many srs can't navigate using the app.)
I understand where you're coming from Midkid58, & it's true... We can't be impaired by threats like that cuz it would paralize our ability to give real help. He shud have a complete mental workup asap.
Forgot to mention that we had moms doctor administer a simulated driving test which she failed twice! The doctor pointed out that during the simulation, her response time to brake for a child running into the street was unacceptable and point blank asked her if she could live with herself if she killed a child because she wanted to drive when she really shouldn't be.
I also contacted the BMV and told them that my mother had been diagnosed with dementia and that they should test her. They sent mom a letter asking her to come in for a driving and written exam. She no longer knew where the BMV was so it solved itself.
He may need to be on an anti-depressant. I know many hate to hear that, but if he is showing signs of mental decline and suicidal rants, he may need it. If he can no longer safely drive, you have made the right decision to take his keys. It's not fair to the rest of the public to put them at risk.
With that being said, he needs to know what alternatives are in place. If he needs to go to the store or the doctor or visit a friend, how will he get there? let him know that he can call someone to get a ride somewhere and it also allows family to spend more time with him. Point that out. It's all in how you spin it.
Plenty of wise advice has been posted. I can't speak to his suicidal threats, but I would surely take them seriously. My elderly uncle ran a stop sign and was t-boned, which killed his wife and dog, but luckily did not seriously hurt his victims. Don't feel guilty for a minute for removing a dangerous driver from the roads. Please remove the car from where he lives so that there is no possibility of him ever getting back in it. But probably taking the keys happened abruptly? There was no time to process it and replace it with alternatives. If there are any other neighbors, friends or relatives in proximity, I would engage them to take him places. I've done this with an aunt in FL and I made sure I profusely thanked and "rewarded" these kind people with gift cards to restaurants enough to also cover my aunts' portion of the meal. I called her church and arranged to have someone pick her up and return her. Eventually she enjoyed the company more than the loss of the independence. It's a hard thing to take away the car, but it needed to be done. Peace to you and your family!
I am going to answer this but I know many people will say I am horrible. If he can't drive and is going down mentally, there really is nothing much you can do. You can't fix him or the problems and you did not cause them. If the loss of the car is a valid one and he refuses to understand or accept, let him rant and rave and ignore him. And if he threatens suicide, let him be. He may be so unhappy that he wants to pass. By what right do you think you should stop him from finding peace. Talk to a doctor, whatever, but if he is going downhill, let him have the peace he wants and learn to accept it is his life and his choice.
Oh dear, what dreadful advice! Yes, your words are "horrible" and I am sure glad you are not a relative of mine! There is plenty that can be done!
Please angelw43 ignore Riley's heartless response and consider some of the wonderful advice given by others here. It IS a big shock for your father-in-law to suddenly find himself in this situation. He likely finds it an insult, embarrassing, and confidence-crushing to have his independence suddenly gone, especially when it was obviously not his decision.
I have been in this situation with both my father and MIL, it was hard. But we handled it, we used many of the strategies suggested below. And everyone came to a point of acceptance, eventually.
I wish you and your FIL all the best and much support during this extremely difficult time.
If there is another mode of transportation, help him learn how to use it. My mom wasn't crazy about taking the council on aging van...until she used it once or twice. She learned to appreciate the value of it. I agree, your dad must have a doctor and/or therapist to help work through this difficult transition.
Seek out mental health assistance for him. Also, provide him a set of keys similar in appearance to the ones you have taken away. He'll have the keys, and they won't work the ignition. Permanently disable the car if you have to give him the keys back and tell any service that he calls for help with the disabled vehicle that he cannot drive any more. Get POA or guardianship to back it up.
He may really want to commit suicide. Not everyone who threatens suicide is being manipulative. Get him help.
The car is not as important as his well being. He will get used to not driving. It’s an adjustment.
Years ago, I couldn’t drive for months after a bicycle accident that I had. It was frustrating.
My friends went to the grocery for me and took me places. At first I was embarrassed and apologized to them. I got used to not driving.
I have great friends and they told me not to apologize. I then graciously said thanks to them. I ended up being able to repay the favor to one friend when they had an accident.
No one likes have his/her freedom and "rights" stripped away. If Dad's driving has become a menace to himself and others, then he needs to have the keys taken away - preferably by authorities and if not them, then family. Is Dad mad or depressed? He needs to be able to talk this out with a certified counsellor. Many older folks have depression and there are several types of therapy to deal with it. If he is "angry", he is probably dealing with a sense of loss of independence/control. Having a few sessions with a therapist or group therapy can help him get a better perspective.
Is the threat of harming himself repeated and "scary real"? Please get him into a psychiatrist's office - preferably one that deals with dementia and geriatrics. If he is a risk for hurting himself, you may need to have an involuntary admission to a psychiatric facility.
Just adding that in our case, when we knew it was time for my dad to stop driving, he naturally fought us, too. What took us over the finish line was when we asked him if it was worth the risk of injuring someone else. We focused on the toll it would take on him if he hurt (or killed) someone (mentioning children). If he is money-conscious, point out the financial devastation of a serious accident. And if he cares about his legacy, mention that he would be remembered by others as the elderly man who refused to stop driving and caused needless pain on others. All of the above clicked with my father, I hope something here helps anyone out there in this difficult situation.
I wouldnt take the keys away. To the elderly person, it seems like cruelness and more importantly punishment. Id pretend the car is broken and cant be fixed (but was taken for safety reasons). He cant have anger towards you. But anyway too late for that. But-
If he is threatening suicide, is it real or a way of getting back at you? I would say to him, if you are serious, Im going to have to call the police and an ambulance right now. You are a danger to yourself and I cant let that happen. Do you want to go to the hospital? If he backs down I doubt it is a real threat. If he acts any other way I would definitely call. Is he on any depression meds? The elderly are very prone to depression. Nothing wrong with getting help. Anyone would be mad you took keys away and said you can no longer drive. Sure its the truth, but it will make anyone angry.
If he has dementia, Id say the car isnt working and is too expensive or cant get fixed. If he is very sharp, Id remind him he is not stuck at home. He can go anywhere, just has a friend/family member going too. Invite him out somewhere. Ask him if he would like to go to grocery store or pharmacy? You just altered the topic from taken keys to a choice he has to make. He will think about that, instead of the keys. Probably wont want to go. Every time he brings keys up, offer to take him somewhere. Give him a choice of place. Doesnt mean you have to drop everything and take him that second. I wouldnt say well if you want to go somewhere just tell me. He might not be able to remember where he wants to go, and get more frustrated because he was thinking about the keys. By bringing up the choice of grocery/pharmacy, he will focus on that. You can say we can make a list before we go. See how you suddenly changed the topic from him being carless and mad, to lets focus on what items we need at the store. Why not try that new banquet frozen dinner. Its really good. Subject changed and threats averted (hopefully). Good luck.
My friend tried this with her mom. The mother called AAA to fix the car. Sounds great in theory. May work, unfortunately did not work for my friend. They reconnected whatever the daughter disconnected.
The suicide rate among the elderly is higher than most people realize. Sure, it could be a rant or temper tantrum, but that is something you might never know until it’s too late.
The elderly loose their health, independence, most if not all of the material possessions they’ve worked for their entire lives when they must move so it’s really not surprising when you think about it.
I never took away my father's keys. I just started doing all the driving and after one near miss of an accident, he thanked me. He said that his reflexes would not have allowed him to avoid hitting the car, but I did what he had taught me to do - I am constantly looking for "where to go" should the need arise and within seconds of hitting the other car, I chose the turning lane and avoided being the last car in the pileup.
I "handled" it by explaining things to him. This was not well-met with one nephew and we didn't speak for better than 10 years after I stopped allowing my father to drive.
BTW, his heart doctor advised me to not encourage his driving. I don't think I ever told Pop that.
Put yourself in your FIL's shoes for a minute and just tell him what you would want someone to tell you.
Nice that it worked out for you & dad, but some elderly parents can be far from reasonable & even downright nasty. I had to ignore so much nastiness (once my mother had 2stop driving), that I was literally exhausted for a year. I couldn't continue to drive her either, cuz I nearly had 2 accidents while she was b*tching at me.
Threats of suicide are a cry for help, get it for him. He may just be frustrated and devastated but you do not want to make that judgement call. Do something! Call his doctor, take him to the ER, or call the suicide hotline. If he is just ranting your actions and the help from a professional will alert him to the seriousness and inappropriateness of his threats. If he is truly disturbed enough to attempt suicide you will have done what you can to help prevent it. You must act! Now!
My dad went berserk when I took his keys 1-1/2 years ago (he had not had a valid license for 6 months and was still driving) We ended up calling the police, they put him in handcuffs and put him in the hospital for 5 days (no psych beds available) and then sent him home because there was nothing more they could do (he is already on antidepressants). He has threatened suicide once or twice but they are more tantrums than anything. His caregivers drive his cars now and he is very protective of them. He won't let more than one person in the garage with him at a time because he is afraid he will be ambushed again. His cars are old, they are dirty but won't let us pay to have them cleaned. As of yesterday, he tried to grab the wheel from his caregiver because he thought she was going the wrong direction so now they only want him to ride in the back seat (that is not going to go over very well).
Call 911 and have cops Baker Act him for a mental health evaluation. If he is not competent to drive have his license removed and get a State-issued ID card instead. Taking away his keys is not enough.
When my Husband got to the point where he should not be driving I had the car moved to another location until I could sell it. (sister's driveway) I told him it was in the shop for repairs and Dave would get it back but he was real busy. After that when he would ask about it I would tell him that the medication he was on made it so he could not drive. After a while he stopped asking I did have to lock the keys of my car up or I put them on a carabiner and clipped them to my belt loop. (I still keep them there) If you think his threat of suicide is serious the next time he mentions it call 911 and tell them that there is a suicide threat. They will transport him to the hospital. Have you talked to his doctor about the anxiety and agitation as well as the threats of suicide? And are the threats real or is it like anyone saying .."If that happens one more time I think I'll kill myself" just a way to vent frustration. Is he able to go to an Adult Day Program? Many transport and it would give him an outlet, something to do and it would give him a break from the day to day routine as well as giving you a break. Getting up and leaving the house, going for a drive is a way to combat boredom as well as frustration. Giving him something to do might help that.
That's well and good if the dad has a good, logical mind....but with Alz, he wont' remember or understand, and it's just a repeat situation every few minutes. It's very tiring. Definitely have them evaluated by a doctor ASAP. My dad (88 w/Alz) didn't care whether DMV took his license or not...he still wanted to drive. We took his keys...but, he still checks every key he finds to see if they fit his truck. I drive him everywhere he wants to go, but he is still obsessed with wanting to drive and looking for a key.
Who took his keys away and why? He could just be be depressed. Does he have dementia? If so, you could give him fake keys that won't open the car doors. He might give up forget about it. Tell him the car doesn't work or something. Anti depressants might help, it's worth a try. I would keep an eye on him in any case
Angelw43, no easy road! My husband responded in the same way. After repeated suicide threatsI had him committed to a mental health facility for a few days. They put him on zoloft a divalproex dr which are a tremendous help. His doctor also wrote a letter to DMV stating he has Alz and should not be allow to operate vehicle and his license were revoke which also helped.
Suicide threats are serious. Do you think giving him a few blank/uncut keys on a ring will help? If he calms down, great. If he’s onto you... and threatens suicide again, record him and call 911. The recording can prove what he’s said in case he tries to convince the EMTs he didn’t threaten suicide.
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I CALMLY explain that I love him and he is in God’s hands when he threatens suicide. I tell him I will pray for him; ask Jesus to bring him some peace and comfort while he is still with us. I remind him all of if his paperwork is in order and he will he buried according to his wishes, then kiss him on the forehead and walk away. An hour later, it’s as if nothing happened so I offer to take him for a drive, which he refuses. Yes he’s very depressed and on meds for it, but the prideful narcissist is still in there, who will say anything to get his way! Ever see a toddler tell their mom “I hate you”. That statement can be soul crushing if you don’t realize how selfish a toddler is and will do anything to get a reaction out of you. Its best to recognize this and not become his emotional hostage. You still love him, just don’t fall for the manipulation. Establish some well defined boundaries as a caregiver...if he says x, I will say x or do nothing. Caretakers aren’t God. We’re just his agents of kindness and good deeds, who have no control over our loved ones decisions. Establishing boundaries has been a sanity saver for me. I’m at peace if my Dad does commit suicide because I’m just a good daughter... not Jesus Christ. I wish you the best.
Take the threat of suicide by elders seriously.
Elderly throw tantrums sometimes, but his coping with not driving can be helped by a psychologist, or temporary antidepressant med. We have to do the right thing, & it's just hard sometimes.
Best wishes.
As CG's we have to make the hard choices and it stinks.
Using the suicide threat is VERY effective (I know, I was raised on it, mother used it to 'scare us' into compliance--how very sick is that?) but after a while--it loses it's 'scare'.
You know this man better than we do. Do you really think he'd rather die than not have driving privileges? Or is this a scare 'em tactic?
I am firmly in the "you aren't able to safely drive and so we need to do this" camp. Mother pitched a fit when she couldn't drive again after hip replacement, but she has no strength and she cannot see over the dashboard!
Make sure he isn't left housebound---that's humiliating to a person who has been free and easy--as long as he knows how to get rides and such--he'll feel less a captive. (Ubers are great--but so many srs can't navigate using the app.)
We can't be impaired by threats like that cuz it would paralize our ability to give real help.
He shud have a complete mental workup asap.
I also contacted the BMV and told them that my mother had been diagnosed with dementia and that they should test her. They sent mom a letter asking her to come in for a driving and written exam. She no longer knew where the BMV was so it solved itself.
With that being said, he needs to know what alternatives are in place. If he needs to go to the store or the doctor or visit a friend, how will he get there? let him know that he can call someone to get a ride somewhere and it also allows family to spend more time with him. Point that out. It's all in how you spin it.
Please angelw43 ignore Riley's heartless response and consider some of the wonderful advice given by others here. It IS a big shock for your father-in-law to suddenly find himself in this situation. He likely finds it an insult, embarrassing, and confidence-crushing to have his independence suddenly gone, especially when it was obviously not his decision.
I have been in this situation with both my father and MIL, it was hard. But we handled it, we used many of the strategies suggested below. And everyone came to a point of acceptance, eventually.
I wish you and your FIL all the best and much support during this extremely difficult time.
He he feels like his life is over- show him that he’ll be fine.
The car is not as important as his well being. He will get used to not driving. It’s an adjustment.
Years ago, I couldn’t drive for months after a bicycle accident that I had. It was frustrating.
My friends went to the grocery for me and took me places. At first I was embarrassed and apologized to them. I got used to not driving.
I have great friends and they told me not to apologize. I then graciously said thanks to them. I ended up being able to repay the favor to one friend when they had an accident.
Is the threat of harming himself repeated and "scary real"? Please get him into a psychiatrist's office - preferably one that deals with dementia and geriatrics. If he is a risk for hurting himself, you may need to have an involuntary admission to a psychiatric facility.
If he is threatening suicide, is it real or a way of getting back at you?
I would say to him, if you are serious, Im going to have to call the police and an ambulance right now. You are a danger to yourself and I cant let that happen. Do you want to go to the hospital? If he backs down I doubt it is a real threat. If he acts any other way I would definitely call.
Is he on any depression meds? The elderly are very prone to depression. Nothing wrong with getting help.
Anyone would be mad you took keys away and said you can no longer drive. Sure its the truth, but it will make anyone angry.
If he has dementia, Id say the car isnt working and is too expensive or cant get fixed. If he is very sharp, Id remind him he is not stuck at home. He can go anywhere, just has a friend/family member going too. Invite him out somewhere. Ask him if he would like to go to grocery store or pharmacy? You just altered the topic from taken keys to a choice he has to make. He will think about that, instead of the keys. Probably wont want to go. Every time he brings keys up, offer to take him somewhere. Give him a choice of place. Doesnt mean you have to drop everything and take him that second. I wouldnt say well if you want to go somewhere just tell me. He might not be able to remember where he wants to go, and get more frustrated because he was thinking about the keys.
By bringing up the choice of grocery/pharmacy, he will focus on that. You can say we can make a list before we go. See how you suddenly changed the topic from him being carless and mad, to lets focus on what items we need at the store. Why not try that new banquet frozen dinner. Its really good. Subject changed and threats averted (hopefully). Good luck.
The elderly loose their health, independence, most if not all of the material possessions they’ve worked for their entire lives when they must move so it’s really not surprising when you think about it.
I "handled" it by explaining things to him. This was not well-met with one nephew and we didn't speak for better than 10 years after I stopped allowing my father to drive.
BTW, his heart doctor advised me to not encourage his driving. I don't think I ever told Pop that.
Put yourself in your FIL's shoes for a minute and just tell him what you would want someone to tell you.
After that when he would ask about it I would tell him that the medication he was on made it so he could not drive.
After a while he stopped asking
I did have to lock the keys of my car up or I put them on a carabiner and clipped them to my belt loop. (I still keep them there)
If you think his threat of suicide is serious the next time he mentions it call 911 and tell them that there is a suicide threat. They will transport him to the hospital.
Have you talked to his doctor about the anxiety and agitation as well as the threats of suicide?
And are the threats real or is it like anyone saying .."If that happens one more time I think I'll kill myself" just a way to vent frustration.
Is he able to go to an Adult Day Program? Many transport and it would give him an outlet, something to do and it would give him a break from the day to day routine as well as giving you a break.
Getting up and leaving the house, going for a drive is a way to combat boredom as well as frustration. Giving him something to do might help that.
If he has any friends still driving, arrange for them to pick him up for an outing.
Tell him that he now has a Chauffer, like the Rich and Famous.
Let him plan places he would like to go and if you or a friend can't take him, they usually have a pick up Service for the Elderly.
My dad (88 w/Alz) didn't care whether DMV took his license or not...he still wanted to drive. We took his keys...but, he still checks every key he finds to see if they fit his truck. I drive him everywhere he wants to go, but he is still obsessed with wanting to drive and looking for a key.