Apologies for the long post....
In a nutshell, my sister and I have been trying to help our mother 'age at home', but we are getting nowhere. She is 83 yo. She lives by herself. She has become a hoarder to the point where it is a significant safety issue (she's fallen and has a health issue that if she hits her head, she will likely not recover). We were recently were able to look at her finances and figured out that she is spending twice what she brings in/month on QVC..so the hoarding is a financial and mental health issue too, we just did not know the extent until now. There is a definite addiction component to her behaviors.
She has significant health issues as well, and that we know of, she has fallen a couple times and hurt herself. She refuses to wear the safety necklace we bought her years ago. When she has fallen, she has been unable to get herself back up, even when she is not hurt.
The buying/hoarding is so bad, it is impossible to clean around it, so her house is dirty and we are concerned about the air quality/mold/dust issue. She has taken so many meds for so many years we have lost count. Her physical health has gotten much worse over the last 3 years. She is not wheelchair bound, but she will be soon as she currently uses a wheelchair to move around her house so she does not fall. She can and does walk, but she is not steady at all.
We have asked for years to let us have someone come in and help her put her stuff away to at least make it safe, and to have someone come in and clean for her and ideally help her do things she needs to do. She has refused over and over again, up until about a month ago, and then she only let someone come 3x and she was rude to the person. We have had so many tears over her refusals and we just don't know what to do.
She treats my sister, who lives locally, terribly. I live a plane ride away so my ability to 'help' it limited.
We will be contacting an elder law attorney just to see what our options are to help her. She is able to make her own decisions, she just makes bad ones.
We have considered putting cameras in her house, but she would never agree to that, and although we have no desire to violate her privacy...we don't know how to make sure she is safe We have spent innumerable hours removing and cleaning but she just keeps buying more.
We have reached out to the senior center for a geriatric social worker, but apparently there is none.
We are afraid that because she is 'of sound mind' we will be forced to watch her decline and end up hurting herself again and suffering more.
Sorry for jumping around...there's SO much involved here and we are flailing trying to help her.
We just want her to be able to live in her house (which is what she wants), but to do so safely. It is so heartbreaking to try to help your mom and have her refuse, get angry, nasty and accusatory when you are just trying to make sure she is safe.
One has to start with what can *legally* be done.
Is anyone her PoA? If she has a PoA, this person needs to read the document to find out what is required to activate the authority. Usually it is one or 2 medical diagnosis of cognitive/memory impairment. Getting her in for an exam may be tough but there are strategies for this as well.
If no one is her PoA, then a consultation with an elder law attorney may be about acquiring guardianship before the county has to step in. This can be a costly and time-consuming venture, so count the cost before you decide upon this.
Then, there's the hoarding. Hoarding is a mental disorder and it will be pointless to try to get her to just stop. I recommend consulting with a therapist who specializes in hoarding disorder to give you more productive strategies and boundaries. Otherwise you will just enrage her and make trying to help her much more challenging than it already is.
"She is able to make her own decisions, she just makes bad ones."
No, it's obvious she is not able to make her own decisions. Making illogical decisions is one of the hallmarks of dementia. As well as stubbornness and poor judgment.
Please provide an answer about whether she has a PoA, as this will guide all responses to your question.
I was able to get her to go to the doctor about six weeks ago, and I can only conclude that she is competent enough to pass the competency test because I’ve called the doctor but the doctor won’t talk to me in any detail because of HIPAA rules.
We have consulted some experts, in the elder care industry, although they are not attorneys specifically. We’ve been told that we could report her to adult protective services and she would likely be declared incompetent because of the hoarding and her financial decisions due to the hoarding, but that we would need to be ready for the process to take over and for us to lose control.
We have looked into attorneys, but even from the start, that is a very expensive proposition. To even consult with us, the minimum “I’ve gotten was $3000 and that was just for a consult and some advice. Ultimately, we may have to do that, but we were hoping to do something less expensive if possible.
Totally agree with the response that I/we should not except any nastiness from her. she has started getting mean more often because we are putting more pressure on so I have had to resort to simply hanging up on her on an increasing basis.
We have talked about the fact that we are in the “waiting for a fall” category, which really does suck because any fall has the potential of killing her because of her medical condition. But I think that if that happens, that is when the POA kicks in - is that correct?
Thank you so much to everybody who answers.
Unfortunately you may have to wait until there is a fall or other accident.
Have you considered making a report to APS?
As the SISTER mentioned in the above post, thank you for your post to us under responses below. I have copy/pasted it to this original post separately so that responders here know this is an update 6/25.
Thank you for telling us that the MD for your Mom will not discuss her with you; I think you are correct in guessing this means she has NOT been judged incompetent because you are her POA and he would want to assist you. Clearly your mom has forbade his sharing info with you.
At this point, if you are determined to apply for guardianship it is going to cost a good deal more than the quote by an attorney of 3,000 to you over all. Mom will fight this; she will be supplied an attorney. Hoarding is not against the law nor is spending your money unwisely. You will not win.
I would at this point give up and report her to APS. I would in fact resign any POA existant and would allow the state to apply to care for her if they find her incompetent. I would let the state handle it all. I was trustee and Poa for a brother who ASKED me to do it, who was cooperative and organized. EVEN THEN it is a horrific job.
As to any elder law attorney asking you 3,000 for a consult, run as fast as you can and call others. Attorneys should be willing up front to charge 300-500 an hour for a consult, not what you were quoted. That would be hourly fee. You would need an hour for your questions: short and sweet for you as in "What are our chances of getting a contested guardianship here. " Answer is, not much.
Step away. Provide your elder with emergency surgery numbers. Know that not everything can be fixed even by two willing sisters. That would be my advice.
Been there.
To all who think this is an old post popping up, and miss the following, I am copy/pasting ValKaven's post here. She is the Sister mentioned by our original OP. This is posted as an "update" to this original complicated post.
ValKaven
38 min ago
Hi all, I am the “sister” who lives near by. The answer is that she has a POA, but it will not be in effect until/unless she is declared incompetent.
I was able to get her to go to the doctor about six weeks ago, and I can only conclude that she is competent enough to pass the competency test because I’ve called the doctor but the doctor won’t talk to me in any detail because of HIPAA rules.
We have consulted some experts, in the elder care industry, although they are not attorneys specifically. We’ve been told that we could report her to adult protective services and she would likely be declared incompetent because of the hoarding and her financial decisions due to the hoarding, but that we would need to be ready for the process to take over and for us to lose control.
We have looked into attorneys, but even from the start, that is a very expensive proposition. To even consult with us, the minimum “I’ve gotten was $3000 and that was just for a consult and some advice. Ultimately, we may have to do that, but we were hoping to do something less expensive if possible.
Totally agree with the response that I/we should not except any nastiness from her. she has started getting mean more often because we are putting more pressure on so I have had to resort to simply hanging up on her on an increasing basis.
We have talked about the fact that we are in the “waiting for a fall” category, which really does suck because any fall has the potential of killing her because of her medical condition. But I think that if that happens, that is when the POA kicks in - is that correct?
If she is buying on QVC from the TV, I might consider putting parental controls on all the shopping channels, but I’m not even sure I would do that.
So many ropes you have flung out for help.. none have caught.. Mom still paddling her canoe along her way..
*Component* I get it would be an awful world if rights were stripped away unduly but it is so hard to fathom how obvious cognitive problems, inc hoarding behaviour can still be deemed *competent*.
Await the fall. Have phone checks (if a working phone), visits (as she will allow) drivebys, have neighbours look for bins out on bin day, Police or Welfare check-ups too.
Once a fall happens that is not fatal but requires hospitalization - Mom won't get home. That's the usual way.
Sending strength for the journey.