I have a 88 year old lady that my husband and I have watched over just like mowing her grass and yard clean up dr appointments and medical procedures for about 10 years. She always been very independent but as the years have clicked by it has gotten to be more and more. We have never been paid for anything, and we’ve never asked.
In December (she goes to Florida) I couldn’t get ahold of her so I made some phone calls and sure enough she was in the hospital down there. I booked my plane ticket and got right out of town and down to her. Between myself and her neice we took turns staying with her until we could bring her back to Michigan the end of April.
she has a grocery list of health issues and her dr doesn’t want her alone at all anymore. Her daughter has never helped her and refuses to help. It has been dumped on the neice and myself. Staying with her and away from my family and my farm is getting difficult, my own house and barn is going to pot quick. This old gal insists she can be alone which we know she can’t. I have offered for her to move into my home with us and she refuses to leave her home and refuses to pay for help and refuses to go into an assisted living facility. She very stubborn and gets mean with you for even suggesting it. I don’t know what to do anymore. I know I can’t continue to put my stuff on hold and be away from my family but the dr said she is not to be alone.
any advice is super appreciated!
Call your local Area Agency on Aging and tell them that she is a vulnerable senior living alone.
Report her like BarbBrooklyn suggested, cut ties and move on with your life.
Moving from a helping hand or providing favours for a friend/neighbour to providing a free home, meals & care is one HUGE step...
Straight down a slippery slope into a quicksand bog in my opinion. Easy to slide in - will be very very hard to get out.
Yes I can see you want to help your friend/neighbour. You care.
But you lack the authority. This can lead to very big problems. Especially with the lady's family/next of kin/POA.
Instead, you can point this lady towards help. If she refuses, you can point APS or other welfare or aging services towards her. But think very carefully before becoming more involved & providing all the support yourself.
Another angle is this - It would not take much for family to acuse you of grooming the lady for elder financual abuse. In fact I just read today about a man (elderley, blind, dementia) who's non-related carer took over his care. Then started siphoning away his funds. Re-wrote a new POA & Will - ommitting family & naming the carer. Despite both documents being completely illegal, it caused much harm. I believe it is now before the courts & that 'carer' will be facing serious charges & the consequences.
If you wish to stay involved, consider being your friend/neighbour's ADVOCATE instead.
You have no relationship, other than you being a friendly neighbor.
She is not your responsibility.
She has relatives they can deal with her and the legalities that come with it.
PLEASE do not get yourself or your husband into this.
You will need to bring your heart and mind to understand that for some problems there are just no perfect or even good solutions -- only least bad options. Calling APS is the least bad option that works for everyone.
"I have a husband, children and a farm full of animals."
You have NO capacity to take on more responsibilities. Your own husband and kids are the priority. This doesn't mean you don't care about your long-time friend/neighbor but this is where reality meets the road. I'm assuming this woman has no PoA assigned...
Often stubbornness and resistance are the beginnings of dementia. If you want to know what it's like to try to juggle a family and a mobile adult with dementia just read some of the posts on this forum from well-meaning people who took in people with dementia (and no PoA or legal guardianship) and the absolute poopshow it turns into (literally and figuratively). You have been wisely warned not to take her on. Please heed the advice.
Together with her niece report your neighbor to APS as a vulnerable adult. It may take a while but eventually the county will acquire guardianship of her and then they will make sure she is cared for, and will manage all her affairs.
At that point no other person will except the court-appointed guardian will have any control or insight into any of her assets, property or medical care. BUT, you can stay in contact with the guardian to know where she is re-homed, and you will be allowed to visit her as much as you like. I wish you clarity, wisdom and peace in your heart as you and the niece work to get her settled somewhere.
Are you POA? For health and finances?
If not who is and are they going to be forthcoming with funds and information so you can provide proper care?
Will you get paid to care for her?
Will you get paid for the extra gas, electricity that another person will use? She should pay for her portion of ALL household expenses.
What happens if you get hurt caring for her?
What happens when you can no longer care for her in your home?
What happens if when you move her in with you and you find out that she is more difficult to deal with than you thought?
What happens when you find out that she is incontinent and she (to use recent examples found in other posts)
Stops up the toilet, causing $6000 dollars worth of damage?
She leaks through her pull ups and damages the mattress now you can't get the smell of urine out.
She smears fecal matter on the walls in the hall and bathroom.
She refuses to bathe or change her clothes
She can no longer do stairs, can not walk,
Is your house set up for this
I am not going to go on but you get the idea.
And if no one is POA and she is not competent are you prepared to obtain Guardianship? That is an expensive and time consuming undertaking.
This is not a simple..."I'm gonna take care of the nice neighbor lady"
Ok, your response to Geaton777 answered the POA question. And with POA you would probably not need Guardianship however if any of her relatives wished to step in they would probably have to become her Guardian.
Im not set on doing this just trying to find out all the good bad and ugly and what other options there may be.
she said she isn’t going to pay a caregiver and she isn’t going into a home and says she is just fine staying on her own.(we know she’s not) she couldn’t get out if there were a fire or defend herself if someone broke in. It’s only out of concern for her wellbeing. If I lived right next door to her it wouldn’t be an issue but my home is 20 minutes from her and she has fallen in the past and the 20 minute drive feels like a hour.
REALLY? It's not your problem. Your friend sounds like a selfish senior who has taken advantage of you and your husband. She won't go to a facility or pay for help and has NO problem with you and your husband doing all this for her for free.
And now you want this woman to move into your home? Are you freaking crazy? Is there something mentally wrong with you and your husband that you would continue on this crazy path?
Get some perspective because you and your husband are being taken advantage of and she is not even your own family.
Please LEAVE Florida and your friend where she is and go back to your home and family. It's time. Your husband has POA and needs to have her involuntarily placed into a facility.
This all seems like above and beyond for someone who is just a friend, especially the part about you and your niece taking turns staying in Florida from December to April. Seriously who does that? It sounds completely insane.
You say the friend has a laundry list of issues and the doctor doesn't want her to be alone. It is now time for her to be placed in a facility.
Honestly I don't know what to make of all of this other than to say I hope you and your husband are in her will and you stand to inherit something for all the money, time and effort you have given to this woman for free.
To neglect your own home and house for a woman that is long past needing to be in a facility is completely nuts.
This is probably one of the hardest situations to ever face. You MUST consider your family more then you consider your dear neighbor. She could ruin your home life and traumatize your entire family. Is that something you are willing to do? I am not being funny or harsh, it is a reality that a sick, angry senior can be a hurricane force, destroying everything and everyone in its eye.
Only you and your family can really know if this is feasible and something you can do, have a family meeting and don't forget to discuss how challenging dealing with her pos daughter will be, because she will be around, it's a guarantee she will be snooping into everything to ensure her inheritance.
God bless you all. Your hearts are in the right place, just make sure you fully understand what you are jumping into and get your heads wrapped around how very much your lives will change if you do this. Oh, I would bet that the niece won't be as available when Auntie has a 24/7/365 caregiver, just something else to consider.
Personally, I would never move an unwilling, mean person into my home, regardless of their circumstances, not with children that can be traumatized by the experience. But, that's one of my boundaries.
EDIT: I just read she has CHF and stage 4 kidney disease, with the docs giving a 6 - 12 month life span. My dad had the same diagnosis and lived 10 more years. Are you prepared for this to be a very, very long journey? She is being unreasonable and I would highly recommend that you let her do whatever she is capable of. She is the one in need and she is driving the boat, that NEVER works out well for those that step into the eye of that sh!tshow.
Moving a sick elderly person into your home means you take responsibility for them.
Don't so this. This woman is a neighbor. Not family. Even when it is family I encourage people to think long and hard about if before moving a needy old person into their house.
Please take to heart what I'm saying to you. I was an in-home client caregiver for 25 years. I've seen every scenario that can happen and I'm telling you for your own good. If you think she's mean, stubborn, and ornery now wait until she's moved into your house and you and your husband are now her care slaves that are responsible for her.
She will also also know this and will ruin your lives. Please don't ruin your life.
Also, stop going overboard with the helping her. There is no reason on earth why you should have flown to Florida and sat by her bedside in the hospital.
If you want to continue to "help" her do it the way a neighbor is supposed to help out another neighbor.
Bring the occasional supper over and mow her lawn. Stop in a couple times a week to check on her and maybe have a cup of coffee. If one of you has her POA you need to go to the probate court in your town and have it removed.
Maybe you think there's going to be something in it for you and your husband because no one takes responsibility for a needy, unpleasant elder and considers moving them into their own house unless they think there's something in it for them.
There's nothing in it for you and your husband except misery. Even if there have been "deals" made with the two of you and her.
Let her get as stubborn and mean about paying for care or moving as she wants to be. You don't have to listen to her and you're not responsible for her. Tell her plainly that she is a neighbor not a family member and that you will not be available to her so much.
Don't make yourself responsible for her because you will be very sorry you did.
She may be against paying for help now, but when she starts getting hungry or has a fall she'll change her tune when they state tells her it's either paid help or placement in a nursing home against her will.
We are trying to figure out the angle, as experience tells us that there is one.
She is not related to you, let her daughter niece or whoever deal with her. She is cheap and refuses to pay for help, that is her problem not yours.
You are being used, can't you see it? Paying for your flights and so on, not getting paid, Pack up your bags and go back home to your family where you belong.
If you cannot break away from this thought process, I would get some therapy, there is something out of whack here.
Therefore, he needs to read the document to see what is required to activate his authority to make decisions on her behalf. Often, it is at least 1 and sometimes 2 medical diagnosis of cognitive impairment.
Once he knows what is required, then he may have to employ "therapeutic fibs" to get her to voluntarily go to the doctor for a diagnosis.
You also posted in a reply that "she has CHF and stage 4 kidney disease, with the docs giving a 6 - 12 month life span. "
If she has a health crisis before this happens, she goes to the ER and there he can discuss discharge strategies with the staff or social worker. It may be a golden opportunity to transition her directly into a facility.
It may be possible to have her assessed for LTC, which is covered by Medicaid (plus the person's SS). Does your husband know what her financial resources are? There can't be a strategy unless these details are also known and he has the access and authority to manage it all.
FYI regardless of your husband being DPoA, banks will often still require you bring in the paperwork and then go through their own PoA protocol (been there, done that with 3 different banks).
Your husband's POA doesn't give you guys any right to force care upon her.
If she is still competent, she has the right to refuse her doctor's suggestion and live as she chooses.
It sounds like she is a difficult character. I would not want her in my home causing disruption.
A strategy could be to visit her and if she displays any of this behavior have your husband (with his DPoA paperwork) call 911 and explain she is not herself but uncooperative in going to the doctor. They may be able to get her to go. From there, the ER, there may be options for other care strategies to form.
Or, is this a welcome break for you and a good excuse?
I ask because all of your answers just ignore questions and divert from issues. That is always a sign that the poster, you in this case, are going to do whatever they want, because we just don't understand and they must, must, must step up and be the hero, I mean solution.
Just curious why you ask, when you obviously are going to let her drive the boat, regardless of anything else.
In later years, decades after my dad's mom died, this lady developed dementia. My parents knew they couldn't care for her at their home (they still had young kids at home).
When it became clear that she couldn't care for herself anymore and she refused to leave her home voluntarily, my dad enlisted the young cop on the corner to tell her he wanted to take her to lunch. They took her to the hospital and she was admitted to a NH.
This lady is somewhat estranged from her daughter - she nominated your husband as her MPOA, FPOA & Executor. You provide services, like transport, lawn mowing & other maintenance. I can see how a lady living alone may choose a neighbour or local farmer/gardener instead of a daughter if they can't get along.
But it seems quite a lopsided deal.
Unless she lent you land or money? Or maybe has promised to be generous later when she's gone..? I'm puzzling if she has some power over you both?
Like I said, no need to answer such personal questions!
Sometimes people make deals. Not judging. Sometimes it's a kind of social arrangement. Like I'll babysit your kids sometimes - you drive me sometimes (a friend had an arrangement with a neighbour like that & they became very close).
When elders age & get ill, the social deal can start lopsiding.
It's OK to admit to yourself hey we had a deal for X. Now it's XYZ & that is too much.
I'm not sure I follow what the main problem is for you?
IS it too much?
Is it the 'neglect' issue?
Is it that the lady won't hire help? Or won't move in with you?
If I understand better hopefully I can zone in on what you need.
she has for years told everyone that her daughter just wants to pull the plug on her and has never been there to help her. Here’s an example that happened last year. She got a phone call and someone claimed they were a detective and has her pull money out of her account which she did and then 2 men showed up at her house to take this large sum of money, her own daughter called my husband and myself to to take care of the situation and get the money back in the bank. (Which we did) her daughter just has no concern and doesn’t want to have any concerns with her mother or her mothers health. That’s just one of many things that her own daughter wouldn’t take care of. My husband has reached out to the daughter many times and asked for her help in decision making and the daughter says “it’s not her worry” I believe the relationship has been challenged for a very long time (10 years that I know of)
we have nothing to gain and have never taken anything from her unless it was like redoing her floors or repairing her home in someway, just to cover materials. We live about 20 minutes from her and have just always been the phone call if something happened to her or if her House alarm goes off etc.
i have been the one for the last few years to make her meals and take them to her because she was getting admitted to the hospital every time she came home from being south for the winter and we figured out it was because she wasn’t eating well so we all know cooking for 1 is no fun and most choose to eat junk or not at all. So we stepped up and helped out.
and honestly it’s always been lopsided, we are the only ones who have never wanted her money, and I think that’s why she places all of her affairs in our hands. We’ve never done anything for what we have to gain, my husband is a builder and we do a lot for our elders and widows in our lives. She’s not the only one.
the main problem is where we go from here. Her neice is now unable to help as much (she was doing 3 days a week and now is cutting back to 2) I know it only seems like a day but believe it or not I can get a lot done in a day at home. It was just a thought that if she moved in with us then I could still get my stuff done and someone with her. It seemed like the best of both worlds. Well when she said “then it costs you and your husband money to take care of me and I don’t want that” it brought up hiring a home healthcare worker to help out and she doesn’t want to do that because of what it will cost and it’s a stranger in her home. Which I get it, I do and I try to understand. So then we talked about the dr saying he doesn’t want her left alone and she thinks she fine on her own, she’s not. She sleeps most of the day and most of the night, is too tired to do much of anything. So then assisted living comes up and she doesn’t want to do that because she can’t have her dog etc.
we are just trying to fulfill her wishes and get me home to my house to take care of my responsibilities but still be able to do what she wants/needs as well.
I am open to other ideas that maybe we haven’t thought of, maybe there is a happy medium for all of us involved.
Sounds like a great idea if it's what you want for your life. For me, my own human limitations are many, one of them being that while I was a darn good nurse, BEING a nurse let me know I would have been real poor at 24/7 care, and made me know I could never take that on for a family member. Let alone a next-door neighbor.
Best to you. Good luck in your decision making. Glad that the Niece is such a good support and that you like her, because she will inherit that house in all likelihood, and be your new neighbor.
Just because the OP isn't mentioning any monetary recompense doesn't mean that there isn't one. Or at least the expectation of one at some point.
I don't get how her husband and the OP think this setup and arrangement is perfectly fine and acceptable. I don't understand why some people actually enjoy being taken advantage of by others. I truly think this level of "helping" is also a form of mental illness. Same as a person who lacks empathy. There is such a thing as too much empathy when it interferes with your own financial security and can ruin your life because you are about to make a really poor decision and are unable to say no or realize that what you are about to do is unreasonable and ill advised.
No, it's not a mental illness. The OP and her husband believe there's something in it for them that will make moving this woman in with them worth their while.
No one takes on this kind of "helping" and assumes responsibility for a sick, needy, elder that isn't even a relative just out of the goodness of their hearts.
That doesn't happen and there's no halos appearing above the heads of people who try to convince others that they're doing such a thing out of a kindness and caring for humanity.
I hope the OP and her husband don't get burned on whatever "deal" they have in place but they probably will.
Live and learn as they say.
There is a reason her children want nothing to do with her. The niece has no obligation to help her. Are these infusions really helping? The woman is 88 yrs old with CHF and stage 4 Kidney desease. Her body is shutting down. The toxins the kidneys put into her body causes confusion. Her CHF means she is not getting enough oxygen to her brain so confusion. I would not bring this woman into my home unless she was on Hospice. You will still have most of the care but u will get an aide 3x a week to bathe her. Maybe u will be able to get the aide for a few hours. A nurse should be checking in 1 or 2x a week but available by phone 24/7. There will be no more doctor or hospital visits. She will be kept comfortable with Morphine and anxiety medications. If she sleeps now, she will sleep then too. You will get equipment needed, like a hospital bed. Depends, wipes, chuxs, etc. I would say she is actively dying and nothing more any doctors can do. They are just placating her. They will do whatever she wants done. I bet if you mention Hospice, they would agree.
I am open to other ideas that maybe we haven’t thought of, maybe there is a happy medium for all of us involved."
Sometimes it's impossible to make everyone happy and in a healthy give and take relationship compromises have to be made, unfortunately it sounds as though this woman expects you to do all the giving while she continues to take advantage (and take and take). There will never be a new solutions as long as YOU continue to be the solution, the only one who can put an end to this nightmare is you.
So for Pete's sake, before you take the word of a manipulative old person who wants you to do everything, steer them toward a place where they can keep their cat, dog, goldfish or pet rock. Check out www.petfriendlyseniorliving.com
By no means should anyone ever take someone like this person into their home. They stick like slime and you have to move heaven, earth and everything in between to get them out. In the meantime the dirty Depends are piling up in the garage waiting for you to take them to the dump, the caregivers aren't showing up, and the elderly sick person is screaming in the middle of the night that the rats in the ceiling are jumping on her AND YOU BETTER GET RID OF THEM! (Yes, this happens. They think the shadows of the ceiling fan are alive.)
Just because this lady "wants what she wants" doesn't mean that that's what's best for her
If she's falling for scams, she clearly needs 24/7 supervision.
If she won't budge on spending money for her care, can you see why her daughter stepped away?
I think you need to see what you're doing as enabling her poor decisions and not helping.
Helping would be getting her what she needs. Which isn't the same as what she wants.