Due to the great help on this site, I finally, at age 48, established boundaries with my father, 85 with parkinsons/ dementia /lifelong narcissism, and my 83 year old mom, who was always emotionally abusive to me and has terrible arthritis. She continues to pretend she can care for my dad at home (although she does have night help). Yesterday, I broke my own rules (which I've learned through this forum) and went to see them alone. From the second I walked in, I knew it was a bad idea. My dad got frozen in place, and couldn't move forward. I was watching as his legs trembled and stood ready to break his fall. My mom wasn't around, which is common. He finally got going and my mom appeared. As I laid out the food, my dad starting pounding the table. My mom screamed from the kitchen, where she was hobbling around, "Stop it, right now You're being a pain in the ass." I just looked at her and calmly said, "This is ridiculous. I can't believe he's living here." Then she yelled at me, "Then just don't come around anymore if you can't handle it. This is reality." I should have walked out then, but didn't. As we "ate," i.e. my dad can't really chew yet has a binge eating disorder due to growing up in poverty, I asked my mom for her social security number because I wanted to set her up on the online healthcare portal system of her doctor. I'm allegedly their POA. She hasn't seen a doctor in years, and her memory is seriously, seriously not good. I've accepted we're in dementia territory or, if we're lucky, maybe she just needs an antidepressent (which she doesn't believe in). Her previous doctor retired, so I said, "Let me make an appointment for you. Do you want a female doctor or a male doctor?" And she jumped down my throat and said she'll ask her friends who they see. She's been saying that for two years. Then my dad decides he's still hungry so my mom says, "Let me get you some cheese." She hobbles away to get it and when she returns, I said, "Remember, dad shouldn't be eating cheese." And she said, under her breath but I heard it (I just hope my dad didn't), "Let him eat what he wants. The sooner he dies the better off I'll be." Ouch. I get she may think that. It's normal to think that. But does she have to say it out loud in front of me and my dad? I stayed and fixed their tv and computer, then when I left, she was sitting at the kitchen table stewing in misery. My dad asked how my sister was, and I said, "I don't know. She doesn't call me because she's too busy drowning in misery." My mom said, "Oh you have it all figured out, don't you? I guess your sister and I just have it all wrong because we live in reality." I said, "Reality is what you tell yourself it is in your head." Then I added, "Believe it or not, mom. I say these things and try to get you to a doctor because I love you." And she rolled her eyes. Ouch. I left. My question is - do I take her up on that offer to not go by anymore? And do I make her a doctor's appointment? She needs an antidepressent at the very least. I can call the doctor ahead of time with my concerns. I was thinking I'd write my mom a letter with the date and time of the appointment and the doctor's number so she can cancel it, along with one line like, "I hate to see you suffer so much. Please talk to a doctor about your mood."
1. Your mom isn’t depressed. Anyone in her situation would be unhappy. Imagine she takes a pill? Then what? All the other problems are still there. DH who can’t walk well, chew well, etc.
2. Your mom doesn’t need AD. By the way, AD isn’t innocent without any side-effects.
3. What your parents need are solutions to the actual problems.
4. You said you have POA. If possible, hire in-home caregivers. Lie: tell them APS contacted you, and if you (POA) don’t hire help, you (POA) (or if you prefer you can say mom/dad) will get into big trouble by APS.
5. Your mom’s memory problems are due to dementia starting. Please don’t be in denial. Her memory problems aren’t due to depression. She might be depressed, sure, but she’s also starting to have dementia.
6. She’s not that depressed, since she clearly wants to live. She’s not suicidal. In fact, she just knows her life would be easier without your dad. Right, it wasn’t nice at all for her to say that.
7. She might not want to see a doctor, because she’d afraid you might try to use it against her: get her declared dementia/incompetent in the future, and force her into a facility.
8. As a conclusion: try to hire in-home caregivers, OP.
Don’t ask for permission. She’ll just say no.
Bring some caregivers to the house. I had interviews with potential caregivers at my mom’s house. Eventually, even my mom joined in the interviews to ask questions. Then I let my mom choose which caregivers she liked best.
To have parents that YOU have to parent is awful, in so many ways. Sounds like you are the only adult in this triangle of fun. I'm so sorry.
Do you usually take someone else along with you when you visit? That probably helps a little?
IF you want to pursue getting your mom a new PCP, then it wouldn't hurt to send a note along to the Drs office, stating your concerns, etc., in case mom actually GOES to see the dr.
I've found that Drs are generally appreciative of any extra 'eyes on the scene' as far as difficult patients. Your mom could probably gaslight any dr she meets. Go ahead with the 'letter' and do let them know you have PoA. YOU can communicate with the Dr., whether they will loop you into the care or not is up to them and their dedication to the HIPPA laws.
Sounds like dad needs to be in care. Mom isn't able to do a good job, and frankly, she's probably making it worse. Can you help facilitate that move?
Mom needs a full psych workup, and probably meds too, but as you said, she won't take them--so as hopeful as you may be, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
Maybe just 'fix' what you can. Try to get dad to a place that's better for him.
Help mom to get a new doc and hopefully she will 'behave'. AD's can really help the elderly.
But at some point, maybe you DO need to step completely away. That's a hard call to make.
Good Luck on this journey. At least, you know you are not alone in this. Pretty much all of us on this site have aging parent issues.
I agree!
Adding my comment:
That would be really funny if someone on the forum says, “Actually I have no issues at all. My parents are so cooperative. And all emergencies have gone so smoothly. None of my caregiving took up much of my time. Everything just worked out so well.”
….But that kind of talk is normally from the one who dumped it all on another family member.
(Ventingisback)
Really, can she be expected to be a smiling ray of sunshine scattering flower petals all over the place while singing 'Zippedy-Do-Dah'?
Secondly, are you a psychiatrist? If the answer is 'no' then you're really qualified to decide whether or not someone needs an anti-depressant. Your mother has a miserable and depressing life. "Meds" can't fix that. She's also from the 'stand by your man' generation. People their age stayed in miserable marriages.
Thirdly, if my grown child ever approached me and suggested I see a doctor about my "mood", he'd get a slap in the face from me. Then his father would probably give him one too.
You do not do the caregiving for your father, or your mother. So you really have no right to suggest anti-depressants for your mom's "mood".
I want you to put yourself in your mother's place for a minute. You're a care slave. How would you react if your adult child suggests see a doctor for your "mood"? I don't imagine you'd be very pleased.
Don't overstep and make a doctor's appointment for her. If you really want to help, get a sitter for your father one afternoon and take her out to lunch. Then ask her how can you help.
Tell her plainly, that you will listen to complaining, but you will listen to concerns and that you want to help. If you don't want to, don't offer to.
If your mother takes you seriously she will open up and let you help. If she doesn't want to, don't force it.
Many times out elders have to learn the hard way about accepting help. They have to have change forced on them because someone has a fall or an accident.
Their stubbornness and denial is not your fault. If she doesn't want help from you, then you can't give it.
So I'm printing a retraction.
'Tell her plainly that you will NOT listen to complaining, but you will listen to concerns and that you want to help'.
AC needs to put back the edit option.
At this point Dad probably needs LTC. If ur parents have assets, they need to be split. Dads split goes to his care in a LTC facility. When it starts to run out, he applies for Medicaid. Mom becomes a Community spouse remaining in the home, getting enough of their monthly income to live on and a car. I am just giving the basics, an Elder Lawyer can help and give more info.
You know stress does a lot to the body. My Dad was a pain to live with at times. They were in their late 70s when Dad pushed the wrong button. I thought my Mom was going to have a stroke. She said at the time "When you take those vows, they don't tell you one day you both will be old and your tired of their s_ _ t." My Dad retired at 52 with heart problems. Mom had waited on him hand a foot for 25 yrs. Yes, she made that monster.
You cannot force your parents to do anything. I might call Office of Aging and see if they can evaluate ur parents situation. Sometimes a stranger can get thru better.
You make a very good point. Sometimes the "monster" or "brat" is of our own making.
Never wait on a child or adult hand and foot. All people should do for themselves on whatever level they're capable.
Many times a person who is elderly, sick, or handicapped will resent being forced to do for themselves because there are people who want to be babied like an infant and expect it. That doesn't do them any favors though. All it does is strip them of whatever independence and dignity they may still possess.
I've taken my share of insults, resentment, and abuse from clients (and my mother) for refusing to baby them by waiting on them hand and foot.
I won't do it. I never did and I never will.
A baby is supposed be babied. Not an adult.
You are still in danger if you board this train.
On board, you can be trapped. Be abused, be accused of interferring when you are trying to help.
Staying stepped back is safer for you. From there you can alert others when the crises happens. Not if - when.
I get you want to help, do something! They seem so precarious!
Myself, when the feeling to swoop in to help bubbles up, I feel it, then let it subside again. I knownot's pointless. Instead, I remember my mantra.
Advise them.
Let them decide.
The consequences will be theirs.
I'm in agreement with everyone else. If mom says to not come back here, I would take her up on her offer. Turn them over to APS and be done with it.
Next, I would take a hard look at what your expectations are with them versus the reality of the situation.
You called it. Call APS and even ask the police to do wellness checks on them.
They'll notice how they live and will take action.
Your story sounds so much like my parents although eventually they accepted caregivers.
My mom constantly blamed everything wrong on me and I finally set up boundaries. I refused to visit alone. Limited the time and frequency of visits. She had all that she needed including companionship.
I highly suggest that you go no contact if only for a short time. Let APS make the decisions for their care. Your mom will only get worse.
You can try to get Social Services to step in. Call local police and ask for well checks weekly. Call neighbors and encourage them to call APS to report vulnerable adults in need of care. Ask those with "standing" in the community --pastor, anyone your mom thinks will criticize placement and ask them to talk to your parents.
But I would stop trying to help. You have a really unhealthy dynamic and it's only making mom dig her heels in.
Perhaps if you step back, placement can become HER idea.
You're putting a lot of your own effort into delaying the inevitable with no result except exhaustion and putting your own self in danger.
Speaking as someone who went to endless lengths--time, money, management--- to prolong my mom's life and keep her safe, the end result was to keep her alive only to have her slip into bitterness and depression and total dependency, along with costly care.
If I'd let her live her life without constantly interfering she would have dropped dead being relatively happy from aFib 6 years ago on the kitchen floor. Instead, all my devices and safety features like a call button prolonged her life. They took away from my own life by my refusing to travel anywhere but to visit my mother for many years (which affected my husband).
I was trying to keep her safe and alive and in the process (again--only to wind up dependent and in a costly facility), I almost killed myself with stress and ripped joy from myself and my family.
As for addressing mood disorders...Not so easy with younger folks--very difficult with elderly. We are talking about not just chemical but lifelong patterns once of which is abusing the people closest to you (happens to me).
My biggest challenge now may be similar to yours: To accept that life has a painful emotional end for those who don't deal with their issues earlier on, before it becomes impossible to do so, and to not let their sadness destroy my joy. I can love myself--and them-- enough to let them be who they are --even if it is sad or miserable. Life is so very difficult for others, but I cannot change that. Take it from someone farther down the road--I tried.
My only, best solution is to allow myself to experience joy and not take on others' sadness. I can then be more helpful to others' who truly want my help.
Good luck to you. I hope you can continue to let go and don't get caught up in the type of mess I am on now for being overly solicitous trying to keep someone alive. I know that sounds harsh but my mom is not a 10 yo or 45 yo. She will not change. I regret all I did to try to make everything perfect for her only for her to suffer more. All I can do is learn from it.
Just reading you, makes it so clear you’re a very nice person.
By the way, you wrote:
“I regret all I did to try to make everything perfect for her only for her to suffer more.”
Believe me, since you’re such a very nice person (your writing radiates it), if you had chosen any other path (helping your mom less), you would have felt bad and really regretted it. You might not even have been able to live with yourself. Some people have to live with guilt all their lives. You don’t.
(Ventingisback)
She doesn’t want to go to a doctor where he’ll confirm that she’s not ok.
In this case I’d hire an outside person with out and family connections or buttons they can push. It’s surprising how different they are with people outside the family.
My mother is narcissistic too and she gets quite a bit a drama going, it’ll only stop when you don’t go there. They have a contempt for kind souls.
How about a one morning a week day respite program for your dad. If you could find one in the neighborhood that includes transportation--services are offered, breakfast, hot lunch and with health insurance physical therapy, etc.
This would give your Mom a break and dad might like it. At one time my mother attended because I couldn't leave her alone if I had errands or appointments.
But my friend's dad goes to a place he now loves and attends 4 days week. He calls it the Club and has made a lot of new friends and said the people who work there treat him wonderful. My friend can go to work with piece of mind. At the beginning he said, are you shipping me out. Now he loves it! Sometimes these things work out better than you expect.
Home services are wonderful--if you get the right agency, they can provide a lot.
It takes a village--it takes a team to care for a loved one, never mind 2 loved ones. When Dementia sets in the elderly they can't make decisions for themselves. I had to take the car keys away from Mom. But right now my Uncle is in town and is taking my mother out for clam cakes and chowder by the ocean! I am working remotely and Mom gets to spend time with her brother. She is all excited and this evening we will all have supper here at my place!
You have to kind of work a plan and re-configure it as the progression of disease escalates. Good shoes, a walker, I have Mom wear her ID in lanyard around her neck just in case. An Up Walker Lite to get around. Cranberry juice to prevent UTI's. If they are acting too extreme check for infection.
I know it's hard but you want to prevent an emergency which always seems to happen at 2AM on a rainy night when I have no make-up on.
My prayers are with you!
And I must disagree with your statement that "Reality is what you tell yourself it is in your head." You are NOT an 80-something-year-old facing the end of life. Their bodies dictate their realities - and limitations - on a daily basis.
Your mother's mood is understandable. Rather than go by yourself, maybe find someone to help them for a few hours a few days each week. IMO, that will do much more good for your mother's "mood" than any antidepressant. Take some pressure off because, right now, she probably feels like you are criticizing her.
And if your father likes cheese, is she feeding him a pound of it? If not, let it go. Focus on the bigger picture.
I would keep calling APS and report that there are elderly people who are in living alone and need to be monitored or placed.
I'm embarrassed to write this. I've been my younger sister's caregiver for over 5 years. In front of her home care team and doctors and friends & family, she professes how grateful she is for the care and attention I've been providing especially in my home when she's needed 24/7 care. What do I get in return in private, that my caring and attention is like living in a prison and I'm her warden. I've stopped trying to hug her even brush her forehead with a light kiss because it is taken as a means to get her way. What is her way -- continue to be a non-compliant diabetic, refusal to follow up with doctor visits, delays ordering her medications/ostomy supplies and more. She is back living on her own (2 miles from me) and she has spent over $1000.00 in groceries delivered -- mostly junk food and deli.
so, I've backed away - I only take her the critical dr appointments in order to convey to our brother what is going on. He does take her non critical dr appointments like the foot dr. and there are 2 others who assist with these appointments. She does have a CNA homemaker (through a state agency) 15 hours a week for grooming, laundry, and light housekeeping which she pays for. Another bad habit she has is constantly buying and shipping gifts to her friends in other states. They've complained to me that most of these gifts are nothing they want or need but don't want to offend her, so they don't return these items and if they do it is for a store credit. They know that she is on a limited income but they like her live in an alternate universe.
I'm working very hard to take care of myself but it isn't easy.
It is hard to deal with Parkinson’s.
I take care of my husband with PD and I am decades younger than your mother.
And I have all the help and my husband with PD, no dementia, requires really little bit of help.
And he gets physio, if required very intense, which helps.
And he gets stuck, that is PD, falls will happen no matter what, there are some techniques to prevent it, but, nothing is 100%.
And he eats cheese sometimes.
And I am sure cheese is not going to kill him as Parkinson is not going to kill him. People die with PD not of PD.
Don’t diagnose your mother, help her by arranging respite or physio for your Dad, or anything you deem appropriate.
It is easy to criticize somebody, yet caring for someone with Parkinson’s is hard as this cruel disease changes so being emotionally exhausted is quite common.
Cover909
if your dad is that bad ask for hospice evaluation too..
get both doctors to evaluate your parents.. but that may also trigger a medical person to advice they ho to assisted living… etc…