Hi all, update to the family drama. I’ve been NC with my narcissist brother since September and low contact with my mom (no visits). Have taken her birthday, Christmas, and a few sundry items, and seasonal clothing being kept at my house. She does not communicate with me - no phone calls and no thanks.
NC from brother since September since he’s gotten more abusive towards me. I’m certain he bullies and abuses my mom too (financially, verbally and emotionally) and I filed a report with APS but when they interviewed her she said everything is fine. So I cut out! Brother and wife are traveling the country in RV, have HCPOA over her but never see her more than once a month. Meanwhile she was moved to 2 miles from me and I was initially so happy until he reared his ugly head, Assisted living is allowing him to do that even though a HCPOA is required to live in-state.
He has brainwashed and isolated me from my mom by bullying and intimidating me, won’t let me take her to docs, or visit with her. He is not taking care of her needs. Part of why we are on the outs is I set a boundary by telling them I want a personal care agreement. They refused - their cynicism and distrust won’t allow me to have any involvement with financial decisions - they are afraid I will get a nickel.
My plan is to hold out till Assisted Living has to get a lawyer involved to appoint a guardian because sooner or later he’s not going to be there for her when she needs him. I made these decisions knowing I might never get to see my mother again but I had to in order to get any peace. I just hope I don’t regret it so I’m also talking to a counselor. Thanks!
I don't quite understand why you continue to involve yourself.
As POA, if he checks in on site with AL once a month, that may be sufficient for the AL's reqirement.
Please leave this alone. Your mom made her wishes known. Respect them.
I will re-read all your stories as there is some good content, just sorry so many have had the same situations.
My husband became estranged from his father. I totally regret trying to be the ‘peacemaker’ in the family. I got caught in the middle of it all and trampled on by all sides.
Fortunately, my husband realized that I was only trying to help but politely asked me to allow him to handle his dad, which I respected.
I say that if a person isn’t totally sure that they are able to be the ‘peacemaker’ then it’s best to stay out of it.
Things don’t always work out as we would have liked them to.
There are secrets and skeletons in family closets.
Men seem to have enormous pride but women can also.
Live and let live is my motto.
I know so many people that have had to be told to sweep their own porch before trying to sweep other’s porches.
It doesn't sound as though your relationship or his is particularly close.
With regard to your question on no contact and regret - MY answer is NO I have no regrets that I didn't see my father who I had seen very little of for 20 years, it was his choice to be cut himself off from me and my family and he was a real introvert so I left him to it - plus there were some financial issues where he thought he was entitled to monies from us for some unknown reason but as he was bipolar one never quite knew what his mental thinking was. However every case is different and every person is different, it depends how you know you will feel. The fact I knew it would not affect me is not the same as how you know it will affect you or any one else would feel. This is so dependent on the person and indeed the people concerned that no one can answer this question for you - but if you don't want to then there should be no feelings of guilt if this is the choice you make.
This happened when he visited her one day in her apartment and told her that with advanced COPD, she shouldn't be smoking. She threw him out, saying that she was going to call APS and claim elder abuse and shouted at him that he had always preferred his father (who died when he was 7) to her.
It was distressing and sad. When the end was near, I quite literally bribed him and dragged him to see her once last time.
The fault, if there was one, was certainly not his. He realized that he was a trigger for her anger and anxiety and that as much as he loved her, his going to see her set her off.
He kept in touch through his brother who was POA and who was skilled in calming her and getting her to be somewhat compliant.
While my BIL's approach to her medical care was not our idea of ideal, she had chosen him as her POA for health and finances.
If a parent makes a choice, I think we need to respect that.
Maybe, TW, your mom doesn't want to be taken to doctors any more. In retrospect, that was my MIL's wish as well.
Twillie
Apr 11, 2021
Actually I have been sending mom cards and letters. She doesn’t acknowledge them - she doesn’t acknowledge me. In fact when I saw her briefly in the lobby at assisted living she gave me a exasperated look when I mentioned I would write.
Curious what you mean when you say "...we are on the outs is I set a boundary by telling them I want a personal care agreement." If your mother is in AL, why would you need a personal care agreement? Generally the fee paid to the AL covers personal care. What is missing here?
Guardianship does override any POA, but as you've noted, they could fight you on this, with the end result being a third party being assigned. If there is dispute, and they have the means to pay an attorney, you would be up against two attorneys. Generally the courts can appoint an attorney for your mother, if she doesn't agree with anything. There's also need to be considered. Your profile does mention dementia (and yes, the court would still assign an attorney, which her funds would need to cover), so is this recent, several years, how far along is she? When our EC atty told me we couldn't "force" mom to move, he suggested guardianship. I seriously doubt they would have deemed her needing a guardian at that time (plus the facility selected wouldn't accept a committal), so we didn't go that route. The court would order testing and they would take HER need and want into consideration.
Your question implies YOU are going no contact. It sounds more like they've instituted no contact. Which is it? If they are refusing visits from you, there's nothing really to regret. Unless there was a way to force yourself in to visit, it is out of your control. I CHOOSE to go no contact with my OB. It helps that he isn't local, but he is NOT welcome here, ever again and I will not be seeking him out, whether by phone, email, text or pony express. YB situation isn't quite as bad, but for the things he has done, I really don't need him in my life. I won't be seeking him out. It might not be a hard wall between us, if he were to reach out, but I don't see that happening, so bye bye to him as well!
I will say due to circumstances at the time I was not able to see my dad in his final months. I wasn't shut out and didn't try to go no contact (medical issues), but I do have times I wish I could have seen him before he passed. Same with mom - we were shut out due to the virus. The two visits I was able to schedule didn't go as planned. There are things I would have done differently, but it's too late now.
For you, if they've shut you out, you can try to continue making contact in your own way, mailing letters or cards, sending flowers or some gifts, but otherwise unless you think legally you could win, THEY have set the stage for no contact, not you.
Living with a narcist mother as her live in care giver, I have become firm but respectful towards her. That has diminished the drama a great bit. Our relationship is formal by their own choice, whether they want to accept responsibility ( which narcists never do ) for it or not
BEST wishes
If I may add a question on to yours, how do we grieve the loss of the parent when they are still alive?
Wishing you all the best.
Now I took care of my mom for 15 years all by myself, but her healthcare needs were incredibly complex including insulin-dependent diabetes and extremely advanced Alzheimer's disease, and miraculously she lived to be 90. Alzheimer's disease did NOT kill mom--God did due to wore out kidneys from all those years of diabetes. She was on hospice for two years, and I used them like a home clinic and they renewed all her routine medications including insulin, needles and accucheck test kits and strips. All she took was insulin and Lopressor. She never needed any narcotics or psychotropics, and I controlled her behavior not with drugs, but daily exercise. I walked mom everyday for 5 years until she utterly forgot how to stand. She was only bedridden for 2-1/2 months but it was a horrible struggle to keep her moving.
BUT I stayed in contact with my brothers continuously AND involved them with her plan of care although I did all the work so that they could live their own lives. Oh they heard it ALL from me including her scheduled bowel movements with enormous detail. That is how it SHOULD be.
It's been 1-1/2 years since mom died and I miss her terribly everyday. She was my universe. I managed somehow to forge my own life...but everyday I miss mom badly.
It sounds like you are going to have to mend your relationship with your brother but if it is impossible and your mother also wants to cut you out, there is nothing you can do. You have to write them off both as already gone and just go on with your life.
When I lived close by I wanted to go visit. He told me that he was to busy with his chores and plans. When he couldn't understand what I was saying on the phone I told him about the phone you read. He said that he didn't believe me. Told my sister -she didn't look into it.
You get the picture. I had to walk away. It still hurts BUT I had to realize it is their choice not mine.
Now I am thousands of miles away and he wants me to visit. My finances are not able at the moment. His are. I think I will just present to him that he can pay for the trip and I will be there.
I have never shown him anything but the love and concern he deserves.
I have a sister who only visits our mother every month or so. She has lots of advice on mother's care but doesn't participate more because she claims I don't include her in decision making. She has told me many times that I am on my own and states her reasons why I am to blame for her decision. She forgets that I've asked her twice to help me because I am burned out. By making my supposed behavior the reason she can't help with our mother her life is much easier. When our mother passes, she will tell herself and anyone who will listen that she wanted to help but I wouldn't let her. She will assuage any guilt she has by playing the victim. Based on your post, I suspect you will do the same.
In my life of dating, I've come to realize just how RARE it is to have been raised in a family where the parents don't cause chaos for their children.
As another has said. No matter what you do in life, somebody is going to complain, you can cut off your own left hand to feed your family and somebody will still call you greedy for not giving your right arm as well.
Live your life.
Father died in 2018 and I hadn't spoken to him once in the 4 years prior to his death. I don't regret cutting off communication at all, perhaps partially helped by the fact that he left cr*p for me to sort out even after he died even though we hadn't communicated in years. And by this I mean that he had specifically engineered situations to manifest after his death just for sh!t* and giggles. He would have thought it was funny; I didn't.
I think a great deal of the narrative around how we're supposed to think that blood is thicker than water enables some truly awful behaviour by relatives that wouldn't ever be tolerated otherwise. You have one life, you don't need unpleasant people in it just because you happen to be related to them.
BUT! We do NOT live in a perfect world and continually trying to make a relationship work is not always possible.
What's the point of throwing yourself into a lion's den?
I mean, give a relationship every opportunity to grow and be healthy, but there comes a point, sadly, when we have to shelve a person as a book we read but cannot read again.
Seeing my MIL is likely to throw me into a panic ridden mess. She has turned her hatred of me to my DH and he is now the whipping boy. What a wake up call for him! To be sitting there, trying to have a nice visit and she's haranguing him about ME and how awful I am, etc., etc.
His last visit with her, she told him to eff-off--told him she wished daily she'd aborted him--it goes on. It takes him a MONTH to get over one toxic visit from her.
Why would ANYONE walk willingly into that?
With all those regrets already at play, don't add in another regret of sticking around even longer so you can get kicked in the gut again and again, still trying to achieve the impossible. THAT will turn out to be the biggest regret of all.
Recognize when enough is enough and when it's time to take care of YOURSELF. Leave your brother to look after your mother and for her to blame HIM when she decides his actions aren't good enough. Leave them to each other. Birds of a feather and all that.
Good luck moving forward now.
We do what we have to do. Right? Trust me, it seemed like a miracle to get an apology.
Every family has their issues at some point in time.
Mom seems happy with the situation as is. Why do you have difficulty accepting that?
As to guardianship, is your mother incompetent to make her own decisions? The bar for competency is pretty low; unless your mother is totally in lala land, no judge is going to take away her right of self-determination.
And they say, kids play one parent against the other. Yeah, okay.
Hahaha, 🤣 parents do the same at times and will often play kids against each other and everyone suffers!
Instead of, having regrets from ‘no contact’ would you regret it if you had continued your relationship?
Most times it is for very good reasons that a person stops contact.
It’s precisely as you describe, when I set a boundary about this or that and if they couldn’t handle it, all h*ll breaks loose, right?
Yep, happened in my family too. I got the shock of my life. My brother actually apologized to me. So did my mom.
Many, many times this doesn’t happen and you know what?
I wasn’t expecting a reconciliation with my brother.
I would have remained no contact with my brother if I had to.
I decided that I would live in peace and if that meant bye bye, brother, so be it.
I am glad that it worked out between my brother and I.
I don’t hold grudges. I never hold onto negative energy.
I hope things work out for you and your mom. Your brother has to make his own choices in life. You aren’t responsible for what he chooses.
When I closed the door, I did not open it again. Let your brother think about his actions.
I called my mom’s phone to speak with her. My brother answered it and immediately apologized and told me that he placed mom in a hospice house because he couldn’t do anymore and he finally understood what I had been through when I was mom’s caregiver.
Wishing you all the best.
I will probably also lose my MIL before I ever speak to or see her again (her choice to ask me to leave her alone forever)--I was hanging in there, trying, but to no avail. She simply hates me.
I doubt I will attend her funeral, who knows? I'm supposed to sing at it, but have already told DH that I will not. Both of the people she had asked to speak have also said they will not participate, so it's going to be a short service. And sad, really.
Nice = mom had stroke around Labor Day. I wrestled with telling him, as it had been over 2.5 years since I cut off contact. My sense of "right" won out, so I sent email to let him know. 15 hours later, reply was "Thanks for update." Keep in mind he's one of those types who has their face planted in the phone all the time!
Distribution = mom passed from a second stroke mid-December. It made sense for all of us to do the same "move" of funds from the trust, to keep cap gains to a minimum.
At no time were there chats or text messages, just email. There are still some loose ends to tie up, but unless there is a MUST contact need, I'm done. He was abusive (physical, psychological, emotional) when we were kids. Later teens/college years, we weren't around each other much. Post college he moved away. The few times we were all together, others were there too. Like many others, I likely chalked it up to being kids.
Sadly I missed the warning signs during the few trips here he took to help with mom's condo. In hindsight, that abusive personality has ALWAYS been there, it's just mostly under the surface. The constant complaints about co-workers and doctors, like he's the genius who knows it all. In discussion with his daughter, she's been victim too. He was pretty nasty to mom, according to YB, when here to get the move to MC done.
Once in a while it shows itself, which it did here, 3 years ago. DONE DONE DONE with him, period. I don't care what he has to say for himself. I don't need you, I don't want you. I certainly don't need or want someone beating up on me! Stay down south where you live and forget you had a sister! YB isn't quite as bad, but I'm finished with him too. I've pretty much been going it alone for several years now, overseeing everything for mom. Initially I tried to keep the three of us informed and giving input to care, etc. That fell apart, so fine. YB was also POA, never used it for anything. All 3 were trustees of the trust fund, but not ONCE have they asked anything or wanted information about how it was used. GAK.
Hopefully sooner than later I will be an ONLY child!