How do I deal with a mother that is not senile, but is just plain mean?

my pets don't remind me of any of my relatives -- which is a good thing I guess

Snoozi..you are right..I think if our pets and come back over and over..why cant we?

ElderlyandADHD I find myself agreeing with you.

I mean no disrespect and loved my dad, but he could be so nasty. Now I have a beautiful dog and I completely believe he is my dad, came back at another level and he is completely loving and a beautiful creature. I just know it...somehow.

When my mom passed away, I found her and when I looked at her, I knew she was not in her body. She was in my heart and in my head. I could feel her and I knew she was in the hearts and heads of my children and my sweetheart... all the good things she said and even when she was a little bit crabby.

I don't know what will happen, but I find myself believing that our physical bodies are vehicles for our spirits and somehow our spirits live on... perhaps in the memories of others and in the impact that we have had on the world. I think it is very important to treat our bodies/vehicles with great respect and caring and not like garbage dumps. We need to put only healthy nutrients in and exercise and stretch. Live in the sunshine and surround ourselves with laughter and hugging!

And then there is cremation. We cremate our family when they pass away and I think we enrich the soil and make the flowers grow more beautifully and the trees grow strong.

My mom said never worry. Everything works out in the end. I found it hard to believe it was that simple when she said it. I thought you have to address the problems, you have to think of solutions and implement them. You have to DO something! I keep recalling what she said now that she is gone and I find.. she was right!

I think we do choose... we can make excuses or take accountability and a step forward. Often I find myself confused and unable to make a choice or a decision, so I just go back and try again. What's the worst that can happen? I might come back as a pampered pet and get to be more loving and more kind next time.

my MIL also has borderline. One of the reasons we won't invite MY mother to live with us is because then MIL (who is much younger) will think she is entitled to move in with us after my mother dies. Personally, from what I'm reading here, I think my mother is an undiagnosed case of borderline. Ha! Neither one is super mean, but very, very trying for those of us who have to deal with them and their many oddities.

An ArmyWife, if this helps, we all have to make the transition to whatever lies ahead and die alone, after all nobody can die with us, can they? lol, and its temporary alone from what I understand, the energy lives on somewhere, maybe a better place with a better life? who knows? Instead of being afraid, Id rather think of it as a next adventure of sorts, you already know what life is about right? but you didnt know what life was before you were born? right? so maybe death is like the same thing. My major fear is how I might not be able to help my kids if they need me, but Im pretty tough, Ill probably hang around until they get old, die and drag them somewhere to be with them again..If you are capable of missing someone afterward, I would really miss them! probably more than they would miss me! lol, I think you probably get a choice of what you want to do. I hope this helps in some way. It helps me to think about it that way, I have had a few animals that I think keep returning to me after they died. It is something I just cannot put my finger on, but I really think that it is there. People make all this stuff really dramatic and I think it is really simple. I think you choose, and your energy is always around.

AnArmyWife, sorry for misstyping your name.

AnArmWife, I'm talking about borderline pesonality disorder which I'd admit was a bit overstated. BTW, I have bipolar as well and have done some irrational things also.

Cmagnum- the master bedroom story is hilarious. How could anyone think they have the right to kick you out of your room. Yet, my MIL used to do that everytime she visited one of my husband's siblings. That sibling and his wife later died in an accident. I was a devastating time for the family. They had teen children living at home. MIL was there immediately, moved into the master, and told the children it was no longer their parent's room, it was hers. She was there for about 5 days- enough time to gather family items she was certain the children wanted to steal (side note, it all would fetch about $200 in a garage sale). She has had no use for these children since. I must admit, my sympathy for her is low. We were the only one's willing to take her in, and there is a reason for that. Before she came, she made it clear she would not take our one spare bedroom as it was too small for her. She needed a bigger room with more living space- ie the master. We said no. This is the room we have. We have set boundaries, but I am not sure that is enough.

AnArmyWife- first, I think there is some acronym induced confusion. Earlier bosts used BPD as an acronym for Borderline Personality Disorder. My mother was bi-polar, which may have some similar traits, but is different. Unfortunately for her, it was not well understood when she was younger. She never really received treatment, which was unfortunate. When she was doing well, she was wonderful. Hat's off to you for understanding your issue and working to address it. Most people are not able to do that. In the book CMagnum referred me to, they do discuss people with Borderline Personality Disorder living mainly n the black and white. Understanding this is a big help to me in our family's current situation. My MIL would never, ever agree she has issues. The issues clearly lie with everyone else, in her mind. So, working to change how she see things will not happen. But, understanding how she thinks can help us in how we react. Good luck to you.

Oh and one last thing... I recall reading in a few of my psych classes that people with BPD are considerably more prone to have issues with the law and often times end up being arrested due to them not being able to quite understand what is rational and irrational. They tend to rationalize the way they act. I am fully aware that the choices I have made in my life have caused my life to go the way it has. No one is to blame but my inability to handle people I find impossible or nearly impossible to deal with and due to my own personal fears of dying alone.

I disagree with cmagnum. I was diagnosed many years ago with bipolar disorder. I have done some irrational things and most of them happened because I was majorily upset by something my mother had done/said regarding me. I.E. I enlisted because of not being able to deal with her, her controlling ways and constant telling me that I have done nothing with my life. I graduated high school with average grades and sometimes below average. Math was never my strong suit. I was only 23 when I enlisted and ended up as a medic in the Navy. After the years I spent and I might add excelled at. I had moved to the east coast for a couple of years, experiencing life I had never encountered. I had also moved south after I had learned from mother that I was adopted. I was 35 when I found out. I ended up taking off almost two years after that and went in search of my biological mother that I had found. Years and years of lies, control and manipulation from mother made me wonder if my biological mother was any better? The irrational issues and mistakes I have made have been due to not having a solid male/father figure in my life. Adoptive dad died when I was three. Mother did not remarry until I was 12. He lasted two years before he had a major stroke and very progressive Alzheimer's. He died last day of my junior year. Mother very rarely had a boyfriend and when she did, she would never bring them to the house. Except for two others who ironically died as well for different reasons. Thus, I have a horrible fear of whomever I marry will leave me. And since I have been married/divorced several times I certainly showed poor judgement. Fact is, I was scared as hell I would die alone. Mother was 43 years old when she adopted me at 3 days old. I am still scared as hell that something with happen to my husband now. I feel I dodged a bullet of sorts because he has deployed twice to Iraq 28 months total over there). Just recently he was deployed again but due to injury, he had to come back to the states. Keep in mind, he is in the Army Reserves. Anyway, the point of the matter is that I have irrational fears that I do act on at times just to try to ensure that I do not die alone. I have done some irrational things concerning other parts of my life, however I have never gotten involved with drugs, alcohol and never been arrested. For that matter, I have not had a speeding ticket since I was a teenager and no accidents that were because of me. (Had a woman pull out in front of me coming out of a Walmart that claimed she could not see me.) And just last week, some idiot guy rear-ended me while we were sitting at a stoplight waiting for it to turn green. Yes, I do think in terms of black and white. But over time, I have learned through experience that everything is not black and white. But often times grey. I take one medication to help me with my issues. At a very low dose because I react very well to it. I can feel the difference in my tolerance of people and situations. Without it, I am way more prone to telling someone exactly what I think of them, especially when it is an issue of common sense. The problem with common sense is a matter of interpretation based upon ethics, ethnicities, societal norms, and personal preferences. (I did five years of college and finished with my bachelors degree in applied sciences. AKA medical) So while I do have thought impulses, I have the ability to discern what is an impulse and what is a well thought out plan and implement that plan into what needs to be done. Obviously I have a thought process considering the lengthy, coherent answer I have just given. Oh and not to be mean here, my initial reaction to your generalization of people who suffer from BPD, a crock of crap. Of course that is my opinion which to you, would have seemed irrational.

In my opinion, someone with BPD does not have a thought process. Instead, they have thought impulses and it is the black/white thought impulses that makes it so irrational.

BTW, MyWitsEnd, right after I laid down the boundary of no MIL staying in our house and it getting broken twice with a different response each time, my wife and I went on a Christian marriage enrichment weekend. I mentioned about my MIL demanding the master bedroom. I thought the leader was going to expload in their response. They said to never let that take place again and gave me some anointing oil to anoint the bedroom with to remove all ill effects. Then, they had had everyone in the room praying for us. That was the most unique use of anointing oil for healing that I have ever heard of.

ElderlyandAdhd- Cmagnum recommended a workbook on dealing with people with BPD. I got it yesterday, and have read through about 1/3 of it. I would highly recommend it. It really does help explain some of their illogical behavior, and some good information on how best to react. For example, MIL has determined each grandchild's character flaws by a very early age. She then used this determination as rationalization for her disdain. She determined by looking into one infant granddaughter's eyes that she was manipulative and 'no good'. This always bothered me as it is unbelievably cruel and completely illogical. Now, however, I can see why she would do that. It doesn't make it right, of course. But at least I can understand where it is coming from. I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone who has not dealt with someone like this to understand the extreme impact it can have on your home life. The BPD thought process is so irrational. Who would believe a parent would come into an adult child's home and demand the master bedroom? I would, because we have been there. It is infuriating and exhausting. And while our parents won't live much longer, who knows how long that will be? Our teens will also not be in our home much longer. Do we want to spend their last years in the family home with a torturous environment? I do not. Elderly- I would highly recommend this book. I think we have done a very good job up to this point setting boundaries. But, now that we are not giving in to all of her demands, MIL is resorting to tears and guilt. This book has helped my understand why she is doing what she is doing. And it is helping me help my husband in dealing with it. Thanks to all who recommended it.

As I stated earlier, we can and must put our husband and children first. However, even with difficult parents we need to make sure their needs are met. They need not be met directly by the adult child and institutional placements (NH ALF) can be appropriate. I never suggested the adult child bring an abusive parent to their home.

However, the elderly parent will not be around much longer. Come up with a plan that helps everyone involved. If you haven't been able to have a healthy relationship with your parent accept that it is unlikely that pattern will change.
We all accept what we can and can't change.

It was when my wife saw her mother start her old patterns of verbal and emotional abuse with our sons that she became pro-active and set boundaries herself. My MIL did not become the way she is because of my wife. There's nothing my wife or anyone can do to fix or control how she is, but she and I can and have chosen a healthier path for ourselves in how we relate to her mother now who has not gone on a vacation with us in years and no longer stays in our house always taking over the master bedroom when she visits, but instead stays in a hotel and we have stayed in a hotel when visiting up there for years as well.

Lizann, not very family has the same dynamics. Some situations are made difficult because the elderly parent has never been nice and has a history of verbal and emotional abuse. My MIL has said and done things it would be hard for most people to comprehend. It is a serious thing when they start their old patterns with their grandchildren. It is not a matter of them being inconvenient. It is a matter of them having a very negative affect on spouses and children. Trust me, it is not an easy position to be in.

While I wrote earlier that your first obligation is to your husband and children, I can't really subscribe to the above comments. Legally the comment may be accurate but just stepping in to help a parent in poverty isn't a standard I can accept. While a nursing home or assisted living facility may be necessary given the health of the parent, it isn't the same or equal to being in their own home with assistance or you a child's home where they are surrounded by family member who don't resent them but enjoy their company. I am not about washing my hands of my parents while "loving" my able bodied family members.
It is bad enough that our capitalistic system sees little or no value in the disabled or elderly. Families need not join in.

While I"m not sure of the fear part, I am certain that a great degree of respect would be gained. When I decided that my MIL was no longer welcomed in our house or on my vacations because she was and is such a narcissistic drama queen, our sons gained a lot of respect for me. My wife finally came around and agreed with my boundary which she tried to break after she agreed to it, but I responded by taking the boys out of the house with me for a few days and stayed in a hotel. That got her attention quickly.

"no one has any obligation to be abused." WOW! Another well stated post! THAT is the whole reason why I walked away from my mother a few days ago. I had been allowing her to run me all over town, and walk all over me. She ruined Thanksgiving and my husband's birthday because I let her. I refuse to let her ruin Christmas too! She has her own house and demanded she be taken care of in it 24/7. Problem was, she wanted me to do it. HELL NO! Now she has a team of people that work in shifts to do it. She has the ability to burn the house down if no one is there to watch her every move. Not to mention fall again. One more hard fall and she may very well break her neck again and this time there will be no recovery from it. It is not the first time I have walked away from her. I did for almost 8 months then got a case of guilt bothering me and ta da! Back at her home. Not this time. Her announcing she felt abused was the last straw. I refuse to be looked at like some kind of monster and treated like I am a criminal just because she is not getting her way. Christmas time or not... she will not change and you cannot expect her to. You cannot force her to change either. However, you can force her out and YOU CAN CHANGE! You just have to want both of those bad enough. If the kids see you shove grandma out... more likely than not, they will think about their actions and worry that you may do that to them as well. That might be the kick in the pants you need with them. Really dear, good luck. Sounds to me like you need all of the help you can muster!

In my opinion, children are best protected from the impact of someone with suspected borderline personality disorder by getting them out of the house if they are such that they will not seek, get, and stick with getting help which takes years of hard work in therapy which many if not most with BPD are not willing to do. They prefer being the drama queen who creates tornadoes and then steps inside of them as if they are its victim. They are also pros at emotional blackmail via Fear, Obligation and Guilt which I like to call the F.O.G.

MyWitsEnd, I think your mother and my mother may be related. Any attention I give anyone else, my husband, girlfriend, kids is taking away from HER attention and she doesnt like it. She hated when I did have friends as a kid, she told me"who would be friends with you..think about it..they are just using you" now tell that to a kid under 12! She tattles on my kids all the time..they are doing this..they are doing that..and I say I dont care..and boy does she get mad!

Could anyone explain how such mean people were able to get into their children's homes - assuming they were mean and destructive all along, wouldn't the kids know better than to let them in?

Army Wife - good comment about HIPAA - but it seems to me that you could legally talk about what she does in your home, why you cannot continue to have her in your home and explain that as soon as she goes into the hospital for any reason, you WILL NOT take her back.

Please keep in mind - your first responsibility is to take care of yourself, your spouse and children. There is no responsibility to care for parents in your home - the only obligation a child has to help if destitution threatens and there are no other resources. But there is nothing wrong with a nursing home, assisted living, etc. - no one has any obligation to be abused and it is not possible to give another person happiness. They have to do that for themselves. It can be hard, but just say "No!" I did and it got to be no guilt problem at all with a little practice.

Dementia has made my sweet meek mild mama of 91 into a sassy grumbly combative old gal. It changes the demeanor...the chemicals in their brain are messed up. They have mom on some haloperidol and lorazepam. And they help a little. She's more relaxed and not so agitated. She also has whats called Sundowner syndrome which is a type of depression she gets also resulting from dementia. We have a bright "sun" light next to her chair to help her. I can't imagine what you are dealing with as you have had a difficult mom to begin with. I am sorry but as frustrating as it can be you are doing a great service to her. Its sad that some people can't see that until its too late.
I would look into getting some counseling not only for you but your kids as well. But make sure you take of you too. We as caregivers need to remember that we cannot help anyone if we don't help ourselves. Check to see if she qualifies for extra help with your area Agency of Aging and Disabilities. They also have tons of resources that are Government funded for the caregiver as well as the client. Mom's income level qualifies us for 20 hours of homecare aides for baths, light housekeeping, or just sitting with her so I can get out. There are tons of resources in your area that you might be able to benefit from. Good luck and God Bless.

Wow. I read these stories and find them really helpful. I feel like we are all having the same experiences. If I could take a step back, maybe I could laugh about it, but when in the middle of it all, it can be pretty upsetting. Need to work on my sense of humor...

I agree with dutt. I am saying this with love. You got to get her out of your house. She takes advantage of you b/c you let her. Today look into a nursing home for her. As soon as it is available, take her there and let them deal with her. As for your teens, lay down the law and tell them they have to at least do their own laundry.

oops! a husband. I am sick of parents complaining about their kids being out of control! Co-dependency! Someone brought that up earlier. The kids act like that because they were allowed to get away with it with no consequences or the consequences were thought of by the kids as no biggie. Seriously! Stop letting your kids rule the roost! Same goes with your mother! I am not being cruel here just stating it as it is. These people get away with this crap because you LET THEM! Find your backbone/spine and put your foot down! You do not need this kind of stress! Best wishes!!!

Let me add my two cents in here. You cannot talk with her doctor about the mother, without having medical power of attorney. I had to find this out the hard way last week. I was escorted out of the hospital because my mother had given some woman in GA supposedly Power of Attorney and everyone took this woman's word for it without her having to show proof. WHICH IS ILLEGAL! Due to HIPAA... you do not have the right to discuss your mother's medical issues with any medical professional without at least Medical Power of Attorney. It is highly illegal and she can suit whomever leaks any info to you about her. Once again, I had to find this out the hard way. I am in the process of dealing with an attorney now to be able to gain control of my nearly 90 year old mother who had a mild stroke on Thanksgiving. Talk to legal aid if you cannot afford an attorney. Make sure you are protected against her! You would be surprised in thinking that you do not have to worry about that. I am the only child and only living relative for 1000 miles. I do not have POA. And I am paying for it because mother is being charged $2200 a WEEK for someone to watch her 24/7 because she refuses to go to a nursing home/assisted living facility and cannot live by herself since the stroke. I have people who are not family that are interfering with family matters and have talked her into things since her stroke. However, back when she broke her neck almost two years ago, no one was giving me any issues dealing with her medical appointments, etc. I was her daughter and that was good enough for them. Be careful! Take a stand against this woman. Why she is at your home is beyond me! I moved out of mother's home over a year ago because we are like fire and gasoline! I have my own home, a husba