Dad is 93 and frail. Mom is 83 with moderate Alz. We moved them to IL in May, but mom refuses to sell their house, and dad won’t go against her. What are our options?

Have both of them evaluated by a doctor for mental competency. If dad is no longer competent, then you need to step in. Mom will probably go ballistic no matter what you do. As a half measure, you could clear out their home and rent it out. The income could help your parents.

You need to see elder law attorney asap. They will devise a plan of action. Maybe their assets can be saved. Also start to tour facilities like assisted living &/or memory care. No way they can live alone without help. Hugs 🤗

Pandap: You do not hold POA. That is good that you removed your mother's car keys. Prayers sent for this difficult situation.

A friend dealt with this. They left the house fully furnished and had grandkids and nieces and nephews stay in the house on periodic weekends, and she and her sisters stayed there frequently. It sat there not fully occupied for years, but it was in a nice neighborhood and the neighbors were trustworthy and knew the situation. I would just hang on to it if you can afford it.

Get your father to give over the POA to you. Then sell the house. Your parents will need the money to pay for themselves in AL and likely your mother will have to go into memory care at some point.
If they are both in AL and will not be returning to their house to live, sell the place. Or at least rent it out. You don't even have to tell them. They're in AL and they don't drive anymore and rely on you and others to take them places. Make sure everyone knows not to take them to the old house or even into the neighborhood.
Your father if his mind is still right, has to be made to understand that even if they mmoved back to their home and had live-in caregivers it would not make your mother happy. She would find something else to be angry and upset about real or imagined.
She has Alzheimer's and it's going to get worse. Your father has a choice though. He does not have to live with her abusive behavior. She can be put in memory care. If you get the POA, you can place her.
There are AL facilities that also have memory care. So one spouse has dementia and the other doesn't, they can live at the same place only in different areas. They can see each other every day and spend all day together if they want to. Your father would be able to get away from her though.
This may be worth considering.

A different suggestion: install cameras through their house, and then move them back in. Don’t provide hands-on care, just leave them to it, and watch the cameras. It may resolve itself in a week, or even less. It will prove to each of them whether they can cope or not. Worth a thought?

I haven’t read through the answers but my question is .. with neither of them driving, how will they even know it’s sold?! Many times out of sight is out of mind.

IL doesn’t sound like the place for them. AL with a memory care wing seems a better choice or else you’ll be doing this again soon enough.

If they still have income to pay for their support, then you can leave the house issue until they run out of money. Can you hire a property manager and rent it out for supplemental income?
When they run out of money, let them feel it. They need to support themselves and will want to sell to have the things they need.

So sorry for your struggles! At least you got them to move. That's huge! Always with aging parents, what's foremost is empathy and dignity. We think we are struggling, and boy are we! However, our aging parents are going through similar to war time trauma and that means constant PTSD type symptoms as they lose one thing after another, and feel they have lless and less to live for. Your Mom is losing her cognitive (and she sadly knows it), your Dad is losing your Mom bit by bit, they've lost their house, their car, their health, their independence, and they have their kids constantly telling them how downhill they are going, and telling them to give up more and more. They are now facing extreme depression, and trying to hold on to some part of their self they've known for 83 and 93 years. If you want your parents to be happy about these changes, it has to be done not with an iron fist, but a gentle hand. I am sure you are doing lots of loving things beyond this posting of things out of control, or you wouldn't be 2nd in line for POA. Add to that even further patience and understanding. Does the house need to be sold for financial reasons? If you sell it now, you pay taxes. If you acquire it after they pass, no taxes. The car.. Losing that independence is too much to bear. That's why people won't let go. We parked my Mom's else where and said it was in the shop. Then got her used to us driving her. She eventually loved our daily excursions. Sometimes you do have to be sneaky for their own safety or for their peace & happiness. Just like you don't explain every detail to a child as they just can't comprehend. They will later, but adults are going backward. For aides, my Mom didn't like them at all. I eventually went to, " my friend is coming, or my friend will be here for awhile in case you need anything, since I can't be there. I want you to have what you need. Or a friend of (insert name of someone they trust). Or say they are helping you. Eventually they just get used to them being there. Some they hate, and you just get another. Those are examples, as you work through every issue unique to you. How can you give them happiness, dignity, peace of mind, but keep them safe? How would you feel, and want to be treated? We think we would just go with the flow, but picture your worst, most tired day, maybe dealing with a diagnosis, then getting fired for being out too much, then coming home to your house demolished by a cyclone and your car stolen. And then you have to stay in temporary housing with a stranger tending to your medical needs. Your loved ones visit you, which is nice, but constantly remind you why you have to stay in the shelter, and tell you just forget about your house and car and be happy. Lol And just aging in general. There was a wonderful exhibit once to help people feel the world through someone aging. You would put on these glasses that blurred everything, put on headphones that made all sounds seem like they're coming through water, put on ankle & wrist weights, and walk on a floor that moved, throwing you off balance. Imagine that being your existence. It was an eye opener for me. Good luck and God bless you all.

If mom is diagnosed with ALZ she cannot make any legal decisions. Dad can make them as long as he is in his right mind.
Ask yourself these questions:
Are parents ever going back to that house?
Are parents ever going to be able to take care of themselves?
The answers to those questions should guide you.
This is how I made my decisions about placing my Daddy.
Prayers for you and yours.

What’s moderate Alz. Does it progress “normally”?

Many have gone through this. If you can exercise your POA I would do it. However, have a talk with your dad but do not tell your mom. You have indicated they cannot go back. Is it possible your dad thinks he may go back at some point? Sounds like it would not be a good idea. Discuss this with him but you need to help him understand what is happening to your mom. She cannot get better, and it would server no purpose to tell her about the house. In fact, you and dad would forever regret it. Join a dementia and Alzheimer’s group. You will hear the same stories over and over. Their support would help you to feel better.

Yes, we faced a similar situation. My dad has dementia and while my mom doesn’t have dementia she does have stage 4 cancer so she was incapable of dealing with decisions. We just took over. My dad gets the explanation that because of his head injury, he cannot make these decisions. And then we explain that because of mom’s illness she wants us to make decisions for her. We faced a lot of initial fights, and occasionally he still complains that he has no say, but when he is at his most lucid, he recognizes that he needs help and approves of what we’re doing. When he is confused, we remind him that we have already talked about this, whatever this is, and he approved this decision, and that sometimes he just doesn’t remember doing it. It will get easier because one of two things will happen. Her dementia will increase to the point where she doesn’t remember anything and you learn to just disregard what she says or he will pass first and there will be no issue because you will be the sole POA. It might be worthwhile to consult an attorney now and see what would be involved in being the first place POA instead of him. You need to talk with him one on one and he needs to make decisions that allow you to do what is best for them. If he is unwilling to do that you might have to have them both declared incompetent which would put activate you as POA.

First is it possible for you to rent the house, then you’re mom knows it’s still there’s. With poa if it’s durable then your dad and you should be able to sign to sell the house without her knowing. I can relate to your mom having dementia. My mom has gotten worse in the last year. I don’t know if it’s because my dad passed a yr ago and they were married 65 years and the last few years she took care of him not that he needed a lot, until he fell in March last year and got two brain bleeds and also got cataracts and couldn’t see so then he ended totally wheelchair bound. We haven’t taken the keys yet even though they probably should have been taken back in August because she got lost for an hour and half going to play bridge where she has gone for years. Then in November she got lost for an hour coming home from bridge. The only reason we haven’t taken the keys is because in November she went into Afib, so my sister told her it probably is not a good idea for her drive because she could possibly pass out and then she could really hurt someone and they could take everything she has. She is like you’re mother she refuses to leave her home where she has lived for 55 years. Even though it’s not totally safe for her to live there by herself because of all the stairs. She doesn’t take her medicine every day like she should. I have to go up once a week to put her medicine together. She refuses to believe that she could have dementia and go to assisted living. The only thing different is that my mom has turned into a nice person she used to be really mean until the dementia started. I know this doesn’t help with your question. I wish you the best in dealing with this situation.

You are POA and this is where "tough love" comes in. This is not easy at all and you need support around you. Yes there will be a lot of anger...yelling...hateful things said. You need to know it will be this way and steady yourself. I have been through it twice and I was so broken by it but it had to be done, and I had to "lie" to them to set it in motion. The neurologist/doctors at the hospital/social workers were all behind me. One thing I did do, was to put in the assisted living quarters their furniture, hung pictures on the walls in the same order they came out of their house. So when they stepped inside their rooms, their stuff was there...bedspreads, photos, chairs/tv, couch etc. That helped tremendously. our prayers are with you!

Leave your parents in IL. With your parents' house now vacant, who is looking out for it?? It still requires maintenance upkeep and get its property taxes paid. Contact an elder attorney.

I think that you actually CANNOT use a POA you don't hold. Your father is not incompetent and you are not now the POA.

Are your Mother and Father currently living in care? We often see circumstances where the male, caring for the wife, passes away and it is then clear in an emergency way that the wife must go into care. At that time you would be able to handle this, but not currently. It sounds as though your Dad already has difficulty in caring for Mom.

This seems a rapidly changing situation in which everyone is in a holding pattern that isn't working. What matters to mom or what her wishes are right now really isn't a relevant measure, as she is unlikely now to "be happy" wherever she is. It is a matter of "what's best " for current living situation, a situation that can and almost certainly will change. I don't know that you can cover each contingency ahead of time. Right now your parents are stable, they refuse to see, and that's where you are from what I can see.

I am really sorry. I hope that your parents live nearby and not WITH you. And I hope when push comes to shove you will do an ALF placement rather than move them in with you. It's a lot to handle, and again, I am so sorry.

You can't use that POA if Dad is competent. He has to step down by revoking his responsibility in writing. At this point, as long as Dad is competent, I don't see how u can force them to sell. Dad can always revoke ur POA so go easy. If you can get Dad on board to sell the house Mom does not have to know. Dad may need a formal diagnosis to be POA for Mom in the closing. Its time for little fibs now. You can no longer reason with Mom.

Does IL stand for Independent Living. If so, I think an Assisted Living would have suited them better. Dad could have slept and Mom would have staff around to watch her.

I agree you need to read the POA very carefully.

If you have Durable PoA? Or is it Springing? Please read the document to find out if your Mom needs one or more medical diagnoses of impairment before the PoA authority is in effect (springing). Don't wait for your Dad... he obviously is incapable of acting in her best interests. How do you know he doesn't have the begininings of dementia himself? Has he had a cognitive or memory exam? Step in before it becomes a 2-person crisis. With ALZ your Mom could "go ballistic" over any given thing. Just expect it to happen and have a plan for when it does but don't let it stop you from making decisions for her better care.

My cousins faced this situation. Uncle had dementia and had always been the dominant personality in the marriage with my aunt, who was clear minded but frail and ill with advanced CHF. She woukd never "go against her husband ".

After several visits from the police, including a situation where my aunt fell and lay on the floor for 3 days because uncle wouldn't call anyone, cousins hired round the clock caregivers. Uncle "fired" them regularly but they knew to lay low in an adjoining area until he calmed down.

One cousin eventually moved in to supervise. That ended in his suicide several years later, because he was by then unemployable.

Aunt died of her CHF at 96 and Uncle was immediately moved to Memory Care and later a VA Nursing home.

These folks had plenty of money to fund 24/7 care.

Dad, who is still competent, can make choices to do what he wants, and that he can afford. He cannot dictate that you care for them.