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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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My dad has assets that should cover him for 10 years. If he sells me his car below fair market, will I be safe from Medicaid issues if he ends up needing to go on it down the road?
What are you basing his care costs on? In calculating his future needs, remember that as his health or cognition changes, the price of his care goes up. I just spoke to someone who was paying $14K per month for care who was in LTC.
Medicaid look-back is 5 years so if he maintains private pay for 5 years past the car purchase you're fine. If he needs to move to Medicaid before 5 years after you purchase the care you'd need to make up the difference between the sales price and the fair market value before Medicaid would kick in. Since it's a used car, not a house, I can't imagine that we are talking huge sums of money so you need to determine the trade-off of a cheap car sale now vs the possibility of having to make up the difference 5 years from now.
Good point, Geaton. Look back in most states is five years. But, what if dad had a stroke and needed nursing home care at 12 K or more a month, how long would his assets last?
No, you won't be safe, nor will your father. That is considered gifting as the car is a part of his estate. You can be added to the title of his car if you have him accompany you to an insurance office that does titles, or to Triple A, which does it in their office, or to DMV, and then car is yours on his death, and you can use it until then. But he cannot gift the car, and a transfer of title to you will even ask the question on the forms "Is this a gift". Medicaid issues would come up as the car is currently part of his estate and would be in Medicaid recovery as well. They often tell you, in fact, what they expect the car to be sold for, so keep it safe and in good condition. You cannot guess the point at which an elder will need memory care, so costs per month could go way up any day now. While California has lookback of only two and one half years, other states for the most part have a five year, so you cannot gamble on that one.
Why not just get a good appraisal and pay that price, even if you set it up as payments over a year or so?
As others noted, costs can change if his level of care goes up, generally there are at least yearly increases in the monthly costs and depending on what his assets are, they could lose value. The safest bet would be to get an appraisal and make payments for the amount determined. Then there would be no worries about Medicaid, if it's ever needed. In the end, if there are funds remaining, you get some (if there are other siblings) or all of it back.
The best thing to do would be to have it appraised and pay the “fair market value” or Take it to a car dealership or a place like Carmax and find out what they would give you for the car. Then pay your dad the same price he would get if he were to sell it. These two options are.a bit different as an appraised value might be higher than what a dealership ot other car lot would pay you because they will mark it up in order to make a profit.
I bought my parents sweet ride for a song,, and like you I was sure they had enough to carry on for over 5 years. But if that had changed I knew I MIGHT have to add back the actual worth of the car. Its a crap shoot,, but its also a USED car... And I have never heard of anyone from Medicaid coming in person to determine the actual condition and value.. Just saying. Since neither of them had a license to drive anymore, but wanted the car for me to drive them in,, it was cheaper to insure in my state in my name and on my plan. I had no problems at all, and did the transfer without issues at AAA. I am still driving that sucker!!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
As others noted, costs can change if his level of care goes up, generally there are at least yearly increases in the monthly costs and depending on what his assets are, they could lose value. The safest bet would be to get an appraisal and make payments for the amount determined. Then there would be no worries about Medicaid, if it's ever needed. In the end, if there are funds remaining, you get some (if there are other siblings) or all of it back.
or
Take it to a car dealership or a place like Carmax and find out what they would give you for the car. Then pay your dad the same price he would get if he were to sell it.
These two options are.a bit different as an appraised value might be higher than what a dealership ot other car lot would pay you because they will mark it up in order to make a profit.