Question:
Would it be fair to ask for compensation from my spouse's adult daughter for my caregiving of her mother? If so, how much or what rate?
Explanation:
My wife and I have been married for 16 years. This was a second marriage for both of us. We each were widowed and we each have adult daughters. Also we each have separate homes and separate bank accounts.
My wife and I live in my home, my daughter lives in an apartment and my wife's daughter lives in my wife's home and pays my wife minimal rent.
Our wills leave nothing to each other as her assets will go to her daughter and my assets will go to my daughter.
The current situation is this. My wife has Alzheimer's and is almost to the point of being bedridden. I have agreed to give her daughter control of her mother's assets including banking.
I am determined to keep my wife in my home for as long as I am able to care for her. We are both in out late 60's, retired, on Social Security, and drawing pensions.
I think it would be fair to ask her daughter for compensation if for nothing else but to keep me from feeling like an unpaid maid/housekeeper/caregiver.
We all love each other and want the best for everyone. Also I want to keep peace and harmony in the family.
I have decided to not discuss this with anyone until I hear your response.
You can certainly ask her daughter about being given some of your wife’s assets and I think you should. But I think you really need to think through how to say it. Don’t make it sound like you want compensation for being a spouse because she may not take too kindly to that.
If and when the mom is in rough shape, you may want the money to pay for a caregiver to give you breaks, no one can do it 24/7/
That said, I understand your frustrations - I've been caring for my Mother for over 6 years. I admire you for seeking others advice/opinions before making a decision. Bless you.
I find it very odd that you think that you should be paid from her assets and point out the living arrangements. She allowed her daughter to rent her house and you both decided to live in your house. I assume that her pension is being used to help cover expenses. If not that should change, but getting paid to care for your wife. Hmmmm?
You also never know if in the future you or your wife may need Medicaid, there is a look back period of 5 years so I hope that daughter that controls assets & money, spends on her mom and keeps receipts for everything or else it would be a period of ineligibility if you should ever go that route. It’s also sad you need to worry about any friction even discussing it with her.
Do what you feel is in your gut and what is necessary to successfully take care of your wife.
Good luck to you all.
As a side comment....we live alone...just the two of us and I have no one to talk with, I can't go anywhere or do anything except care for him 24/7. Some people here do not understand how hard 24/7 is!
So, as the worst view, I take care of him, I pay for his expenses and then I am homeless!
Yes, we have a post-nup.
Hold on a minute.
You gave control of your wife's assets AND income/banking to her adult daughter?
You said: " I have agreed to give her daughter control of her mother's assets including banking." Agreed under duress?
Why would you do that (if you did), when you know that your wife's income should be used for her care? For her needs, for caregivers, and now you must go begging for your own wife's income and explain what you want to use it for?
It does not matter that you both were married before. You have been married long enough to have an interest in community property and income. Do you have a pre-nuptial agreement?
Are you independently wealthy? Because if you have a ton of money, you can run through that in no time caring for your wife.
Your wife's daughter suggested this? Does she have plans to move her Mom into her home to care for her? That will in reality be a divorce, imo. Giving one person that much control, housing, and money leaves you the only one willing to give away money to keep peace and harmony 'in the family'. Does your own daughter know about this? I have concerns that you are being exploited by the daughter who is already living in your wife's home, paying minimal rent....for how long, I wonder, and is she now paying that rent to herself?
See an elder care attorney about this.
Red flags, I am seeing red flags.
A sensitive subject for me, after seeing a similar scenario ending in divorce after all the siblings drained the couple's assets. Your situation could be different. BTW, the wife was awarded support.
Sorry if I am over-reacting.
Now then. Discussing your wife's assets is one half of her financial affairs, and it has already been agreed that control is best placed in her daughter's hands. That her daughter pays her mother rent for use of her mother's property is also a good start: it shows a proper understanding of the principle that her mother's assets remain her mother's assets.
So the assets are one side of the coin. The other side of the same coin is her outgoings - her living costs.
As time goes on, the cost of personal care and related services will increase. You are currently providing all of those free of charge. But not only does this lead to the unpaid maid/housekeeper/caregiver feeling, which you are already finding a bit much, in time it will also be beyond the scope of even the most self-sacrificing and devoted husband. You just won't be able to do it all, and your wife will need *and will have to pay for* additional services.
So the topic heading is: "caregiving support costs now and looking ahead." As the person in control of her mother's finances, your stepdaughter will need to consider this subject in any case; only at the moment, as it just so happens, it hasn't come up because you've been handling it. Does that feel like a more comfortable conversation to have with her?
You might like to jot down a list of subheadings, too, and perhaps to gather some information. Personal care and housekeeping services, what do they cost and who might be acceptable providers? Respite care. Equipment and supplies. Thinking about a couple in your situation - I'll be visiting them in just over two hours - they currently have:
a profiling hospital bed
a wheeled commode
a walking frame
a portable wheelchair for car journeys
a reliable supplier of continence care products, currently pads with mesh underwear, approx five per day.
1 x 45 minute a.m. call daily to support with personal care, pressure area checks, cream application, dressing, and transfers from bed to living room. We also monitor and document her function on that given day - can she converse, do up her buttons, step round to transfer from bed to wheeled commode, clean her teeth, wash herself? - this provides a record of her fluctuating abilities which helps keep track of where she is mentally.
In normal circumstances they go together to a local community group, to the supermarket, and to other suitable venues - at the moment these are off limits, of course, but they have their own modest costs, too.
In my view they could do with adding:
a riser recliner armchair
a downstairs shower/wet room
an additional bed time call daily (especially as her husband has told us that her abilities decline towards the end of each day)
two or more calls per week for haircare, chiropody etc.
In due course they will need:
a Hoyer lift and slings
a variable pressure air bed
a slide sheet
The husband has been the primary caregiver for seven years, and is nowadays realistic about what he can cope with. He has had very occasional respite breaks, when his wife stays in a facility, and he's considering how to introduce regular respite hours into the weekly schedule. He had to get over the guilt, but for Heaven's sake! He is on duty, taking responsibility, 24/7 and he does everything, he never leaves. EVERYBODY needs down time - or they break.
Not only that. You say your wife is approaching being bedridden. That can be delayed, and her quality of life maintained, for a good deal longer with the right support. It is in her interests especially to start the conversation - and I'd expect it to go well :) Good luck, let us know how you get on.
PS Don't forget additional laundry bills!
Good on you!
First, fairness has nothing to do with you wanting to take care of your wife. And in life, we all know, very few things are "fair." In marriage one or the other gives more to the relationship than the other at any given time. One time, one spouse gives more; the next time, the other spouse may give more; marriage is a give and take, you know that already. So, let's take "fair" out of the equation.
Second, the issue here then becomes your feelings of being an unpaid provider. It is your choice to feel like an unpaid provider. Thousands upon thousands of spouses are caring for their beloved alzheimers/dementia/end-of-life patients, and rarely do they have the opportunity, wherewithal, financial resources, or even time to seek payment for the care they give. Everyone I know who takes on the responsibility for an ailing spouse does so because of love, finances, or obligation.
If you love your wife, do it for the love you had with her and for her. If you want to be paid then ask your step-daughter for money in a positive way because you need the money.
If you do not need the money, and are unwilling to take care of your wife because of the love you shared for 16 years, then put her in a care facility and visit her as often as you need to or would like to.
May you find some peace in this relationship with your wife and step-daughter.
The alternative of course is that wife is elsewhere, where the costs will be astronomical. You might also want to consider some in-home help so you can get out and have some time to yourself. Be careful to have your affairs handled legally...my uncle married in his 60's to a wealthy creature; he lived out of town. He kept his assets separate and paid her toward the expenses. When he passed away he had left everything to my mother and his nieces. My mother was so generous and foolish she let the spouse continue to use the furniture. There was a fire. Spouse collected an insurance settlement but the distance and hassles meant my mother never got what she deserved.
So the way I see it is the daughter takes mom back and caregives at her house, or invests more time for you so you have some free time, but in addition you get some sort of compensation...
Otherwise, it might be better to get money to cover needed items to care for your spouse: her usual supplies; coverage, gas, and maintenance for the vehicle; a portion to cover her part of the home (utilities, mortgage, taxes)l and a subsistence portion (her food, medications, and sundries). Be very specific in how this is not to meet your needs, which should be covered by your own finances.
right.
To each their own discretion.
Financial exploitation of a vulnerable senior is all to common.
As her husband it os your responsibility to ensure that she is not being cheated by anyone.
When money becomes involved it can ruin the best of relationships. So I hope that isn't true in this case, but you should be aware that it very well could.
When spouse's decide to keep finances separate they each need to contribute half of the living expenses and 100% of anything specifically for themselves. That is what keeping things separate means. Not you paying for everything and her daughter getting all her money.
You do seem to be stuck somewhere. You say that you “are all close” but I sense that may just be on the surface. If you and your wife had separate finances how did you come to control hers? Did she give you PoA? And if she did instead of to her daughter maybe she had a good reason. Did her daughter ask you for control of her mother’s assets?
Why would you feel like an unpaid “maid/housekeeper/caregiver”? She is your wife, your goddess, your life. Those feelings seem a bit unnatural to me. I do understand that while she is still in your house and under your care she should contribute what she was before she got sick. If, on the other hand, you were paying all the living expenses for both of you, I’m not quite sure why you feel you need financial help now. Were you using her assets and yours to pay house bills? Way too many ifs here. Why does her daughter suddenly want control of her mothers assets.
If you feel “used” believe me it is so so common among family caregivers you are not alone. The job you have taken on is going to be very hard and impossible for you to do alone without becoming a little resentful of either or both your wife and her daughter.
Reread “gdaughter” answer and then read it again. She nailed it. You definitely need to talk to an Atty. Worst case scenario her daughter will live on her moms income (pension and SS) and leave you with all the expense of caring for her mother. It is doubtful someone with Alz will be able to stay at home til the end and she’ll need that income to pay for nursing.
Please think this out and get professional (her doctor and Atty) advise. And don’t look at it as compensation, these are her expenses.
love and light
Sabrina
I never had control of my wife's finances. Her and her daughter both had joint but separate bank accounts before I entered the picture. My wife had assigned both me and her daughter jointly in her POA .
Afterthought: These postings have allowed me to vent and I already feel better about the situation and the bonus is gaining all this knowledge and wisdom.
If you are going to be the main caregiver to your wife, also schedule a cleaning person and perhaps laundry help.
Contact a reputable agency and find out about minimums and rates.
You will feel like less of a drudge if you can get out for lunch with friends, some regular exercise and time to read. And if you don't have to constantly think about piles of laundry and vacuuming.
You have your own health issues, which will only get worse if you continue to try to be everything for your wife.
I do not believe that you need to ask your wife's daughter for permission to hire help. I would inform her that you've decided to hire help, the weekly cost of that help is $X and your wife's 50% of $X totals $Y. Your wife's money belongs to your wife, not to her daughter.
Rollergirl228:"Of course I’m doing this out of love and love shouldn’t ask for compensation."
The two quotes above are the two points from each side of the issue that stand out to me and relate to my (admittedly, much less time-consuming, and she didn't live with me or I with her!) experience of caregiving.
It is often assumed by society that someone (usually but not always a daughter) should lovingly and willingly provide any amount of care to a parent and never get a thing in return.
And yet, this constant 24/7/365 caregiving can break a caregiver -- physically, mentally, emotionally. (And occasional short respite breaks don't count in my mind for making it bearable.)
In my case it was the emotional aspect that made me so angry and bitter. While my 3 brothers were out-of-state and couldn't reasonably be expected to be on-site, my mother treated me quite badly often. I was told my time wasn't worth anything, that I was a nasty person, etc. When I suggested one of my brothers do something that they could do over the Internet to satisfy one of her obsessions instead of me, I was treated to the shaking/shaming/blaming/crying routine -- how dare I suggest that someone else do it? My brothers' time was valuable!
And when I asked for compensation, I was told that, "family doesn't pay family." Well, it got to the point where she was not making sense (after she'd become hospitalized) and when I brought up to one of my POA brothers that I needed to be compensated since I was now spending all day in the hospital, he willingly agreed. And when he offered to also backpay for the two years prior (when she gave up driving and that's when the demands really started), I jumped at it. From that point forward, I was paid $20/hour (and paid for the two years prior). My brothers knew from my e-mails what was involved in doing most of anything with my mother. A lot of my resentment faded away, and I treated my "Dummy Daughter" status as just a job.
(Now I am wondering what will happen in the future to family caregivers, because now more and more elders will balk at going to facilities. It was bad enough that the stigma of the awful nursing homes years ago. And now society will have the "you go to nursing homes to die of covid!" stance. Probably a subject for another thread.)