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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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She has plenty of money. She has dementia, but is aware of what is going on & can respond appropriately to questions. She does not like what is going on, but due to dementia forgets by the next day. It seems very cruel.
Yes, they can, and it is a situation fraught with potential drama.
GG was in and out of a NH and asking mother to start liquidating her estate while she was still alive and able to make decisions.
She'd tell mom one day to mail a picture off to some relative, Mom would do it and in a couple days GG would be wondering where that picture went? What made mom think she could go around giving away her stuff?
GG had quite a collection of lovely rings. Granddad gifted her expensive and beautiful rings for any and all occasions. GG insisted mom give those to the granddaughters. She did and yep, a few days later, she sees one on OS's hand and is freaked out b/c she thought she'd been robbed.
Finally, we talked mom into simply putting things in big moving boxes and keeping a good inventory. Nothing else was given away until after GG passed.
I KNOW that GG wanted to maintain control to the very end, and she did, but we learned the lesson to wait until after the LO has passed before you start giving away their 'stuff'.
If it's financially necessary for the PoA to sell the items now, then maybe have someone take the LO out of the house or to a different room and distract her so she's not literally seeing it happen. If she asks where things went, make up a therapeutic fib, for both of your sakes. "The sofa is out for cleaning/repair", "The Precious Moments figurines are being appraised at an antique store and should be back soon."
We had to do this when having a garage sell for my MIL. She wanted to hang out and help manage it but we could tell it was very distressing for her. She had short-term memory issues so for our own sanity we didn't want to have to re-explain it every day of the sale so we had her off-site during the entire event. Whatever it takes. I wish you peace in your heart.
Yes, I think its cruel and thoughtless. If she has money, then place her. Actually is better because she takes what she can for her "apartment" and the rest can be gotten rid of. I so wish I had found a place for my nephew before Mom died. But he was not a priority at the time. That would have left her house empty and I could have done a clean out and it may have sold quicker.
If she has plenty of money, it does seem cruel to be selling her things while she is alive, especially if she does not like what is going on. Have you talked to her? Would she want to downsize and perhaps move to a very nice assisted living facility? Are you in a position to tell the POA that she is disturbed by the sales?
What's the justification for selling these items? You say the person has plenty of money, so it isn't cash needed for her care. She continues to live in the home, so it isn't because she can no longer benefit from having her familiar possessions around her, and the house needs to be cleared before sale. So what reason does the POA give for carrying on in this way?
Short answer is "YES"! The person with the financial power of attorney has the right to act on her behalf for financial matters. If you suspect that there is abuse going on, please notify the authorities.
I agree. Depending on the language of the POA the agent is authorized to sell off personal property and other items. When I finally got my father to give up driving his car was donated to a charitable organization. Dad wasn't very happy, but it needed to be done.
If the agent is abusing their position and selling off items and pocketing the proceeds for themselves and not for the benefit of the person they represent - notify the authorities of possible elder abuse.
Yes. However, this may be necessary to prepare for sale of the home, freeing up space in the home, or raising funds to support the person with dementia. I cannot say it is cruel unless these things are done by the POA intentionally to distress the owner. If you suspect maltreatment, then that should be reported. Emotionally or financially abusing a person to whom one has a fiduciary responsibility warrants investigation by Adult Protective Services.
Maybe she doesn't have as much money as you think she does?
It takes lots of money to hire Caregivers like $15-$20.
So, for 24 7 Care, If you're lucky to find help at only $9 an hr it would cost you $1,500 a week, over $6,000 a month so if you have to pay $18 an hr instead of $9 then it's costing $3,000 a week, over $12,000 a Month.
I would think it would be nice for someone to take her out while this is going on or let her be in her room to not upset her.
Or make the sell and arrange for the big noticeable items to be gotten at a time when she's napping or out of the house.
Maybe they are downsizing and trying to get things done before she dies so it won't be so stressful for them after the fact.
You might mention to them what you were told about how she feels when it's happening and maybe they'll be more discrete.
Be careful about giving advice hiring people off the street for two reasons: Granted they are much cheaper than help from an agency, BUT the person you hire can claim to slip and fall in the home and sue the estate, are not screened so you don't know who you are letting in your home, and after a certain amount you are legally obligated to pay a nanny tax--you become their employer and responsible for filing their taxes. A nanny tax is a federal tax paid by people who employ household employees and pay wages over a certain amount. In 2020, for cash wages of $2200 or more per employee. Agencies take care of the business end, do the taxes, and the employees are insured so they cannot sue the estate by putting them on Workman's Compensation. That is why they cost more.
That could be a bad idea. How cruel is it ? I held onto my Mom's home after moving her here with me for almost 1 yeear before selling it. I would or one of my siblings take her to her house once a month for a few days. Each time we would allow her to make the decision. to come back with us for a week visit so she wouldn't be alone. We knew she knew she couldn't be alone and would always come back. When she no longer wanted to go back out of fear she would be alone, than we sold her house . According to her Dr it wasn't a good idea to just yank her out of her home. It could put her deeper into Dimentia. She lives with me and is happier and less confused. I couldn't just sell her stuff until she was ready. Just couldn't do it.
The POA cannot do things against her will unless she is no longer able to answer for herself. Life can be very cruel to the end. Financial abuse of an elder is the illegal or improper use of a senior's money, property, or assets, but giving someone POA it is often very difficult to prove, and it is very common. However, also note Caregiving is VERY expensive.
If the owner of the assets has plenty of money, why are things being sold? Where is that new money going? If it is not necessary to sell assets for her care, don't do it.
It depends on the wording in the POA document, whether it allows the proxy to act w/o dementia being present and declared, or if it's a springing POA which is activated only on declaration of inability for the principal to act on her own behalf.
There's not enough information in the original question, to give a good answer. Is the POA a family member, or a guardian to oversee financial matters? My mother has dementia, but still lives in her own place. I am her POA. My sister and I take turns going over to see her everyday, bring her meals, check her pill box, and do general chores. Every once in a while we remove small things, because they either will not ever be used by her again or we know she will throw it out if we don't. She goes on throwing out binges. One day I found almost all of her jewelry in a pillowcase in the garbage. Kitchen utensils, electric can opener, remote for the sleep number bed, cordless phone, you name it. Also, if she would not miss it the next day anyway, it will be less to deal with when the time comes when we have to clear out the home. Find out WHY the POA is doing it, and what is happening to the money.
Why would POA do this? Is it a hoarding situation that made house unsafe? Is it just to sell for money - where is money going? Someone in family may need to contact an elder attorney to step in - especially if things being sold and all the money not being put into her bank account for her own spending.
Not enough info here to understand why it's happening, who is selling these things, what they are, what happens to the proceeds.
We need more information. What is being sold? Are these things being sold so that there are assets to pay for her care? Are the proceeds of sale going into her accounts? Is this a family member? Are you a family member also? If you suspect there is elder abuse you may want to start a diary and ask APS to open a case for investigation.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
GG was in and out of a NH and asking mother to start liquidating her estate while she was still alive and able to make decisions.
She'd tell mom one day to mail a picture off to some relative, Mom would do it and in a couple days GG would be wondering where that picture went? What made mom think she could go around giving away her stuff?
GG had quite a collection of lovely rings. Granddad gifted her expensive and beautiful rings for any and all occasions. GG insisted mom give those to the granddaughters. She did and yep, a few days later, she sees one on OS's hand and is freaked out b/c she thought she'd been robbed.
Finally, we talked mom into simply putting things in big moving boxes and keeping a good inventory. Nothing else was given away until after GG passed.
I KNOW that GG wanted to maintain control to the very end, and she did, but we learned the lesson to wait until after the LO has passed before you start giving away their 'stuff'.
We had to do this when having a garage sell for my MIL. She wanted to hang out and help manage it but we could tell it was very distressing for her. She had short-term memory issues so for our own sanity we didn't want to have to re-explain it every day of the sale so we had her off-site during the entire event. Whatever it takes. I wish you peace in your heart.
If the agent is abusing their position and selling off items and pocketing the proceeds for themselves and not for the benefit of the person they represent - notify the authorities of possible elder abuse.
However, this may be necessary to prepare for sale of the home, freeing up space in the home, or raising funds to support the person with dementia.
I cannot say it is cruel unless these things are done by the POA intentionally to distress the owner.
If you suspect maltreatment, then that should be reported. Emotionally or financially abusing a person to whom one has a fiduciary responsibility warrants investigation by Adult Protective Services.
It takes lots of money to hire Caregivers like $15-$20.
So, for 24 7 Care,
If you're lucky to find help at only $9 an hr it would cost you $1,500 a week, over $6,000 a month so if you have to pay $18 an hr instead of $9 then it's costing $3,000 a week, over $12,000 a Month.
I would think it would be nice for someone to take her out while this is going on or let her be in her room to not upset her.
Or make the sell and arrange for the big noticeable items to be gotten at a time when she's napping or out of the house.
Maybe they are downsizing and trying to get things done before she dies so it won't be so stressful for them after the fact.
You might mention to them what you were told about how she feels when it's happening and maybe they'll be more discrete.
Prayers.
I just pray I do not live that long.
Not enough info here to understand why it's happening, who is selling these things, what they are, what happens to the proceeds.