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This is my situation. I was taking care of my BIL for the past 11 yrs and became his rep payee of soc sec because he has dementia. He was hospitalized for an appendix abscess a year ago then his niece and sister got POA on medical but the notary person wasn't there in his room when he signed the paperwork and when we signed the paperwork for witnesses she wasn't there either. We were forced to do it. Now having problems with the niece who thinks she has a right to do anything to him or for him when she doesn't have a clue to him being diabetic, heart disease, and kidney disease. For the diabetic side we went to a nurse to help with what kinds of food for him but she thinks she can feed him anything she wants him to have. Their words were we keep him happy and comfortable. He isn't on any kind of diabetes meds. I am buying foods that he can eat since its my responsibility to do that because of him having dementia and cannot drive anymore because of this and his seizures. And that is another problem them telling him he can drive when in fact the doctor told him he couldn't they give him hope and I have to be the one to take it away because he can't register his vehicle or have insurance on his vehicle because he isn't a licensed driver because I have to pay for all of this but when it comes to licensing the vehicle again I can't do it legally so here sits a vehicle not being driven. They keep telling me they have to do this because of his dementia.


I am fit to be tied. The niece just was covid positive she did her 5 days of quarantine now she is going to take her uncle my BIL to the doctors when I could do it haven't been around anyone with covid. Just can't understand why she would put her uncle at risk when he has had covid in November which it wasn't good on him not a mild case. Why put him in danger again?


Just need some reassuring that I am not the bad guy here. The niece doesn't have a medical background doesn't see what she is doing wrong won't take any suggestions from other people including his doctor at the time and the nurse at the other clinic she just switches him to another clinic. She wants them to jump thru her hoop. Had no problem with the other clinic until this POA stepped in with her loud mouth.


Thanks for listening to me. It just helps to get it off of my chest don't have anyone to listen to me.

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POAs in my opinion need to be written up by a lawyer. Then there is no question of its legality. You did not have to sign it as witnesses and there should have been a notary there. If he had a formal diagnosis of dementia before and he did not understand what he was signing, it really null and void.

Its his sister and niece so I think they would win out in any court. You may just have to turn him over to their care. I personally would not care for someone if I did not have both financial and medical POAs. No control, no care.
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Babs2013 Jan 2022
I have control over his social security because of dementia I am his representative payee for it have been for 3 yrs now. There was no notary there when we signed. As one other said she would have found someone else to sign it. I will be seeking a lawyer to find out some information on a different matter that they want him to sign and will ask him about the POA too.
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"We were forced to do it."

How were you forced? Can you please explain the circumstances? The law does not count "ignorance" of the law as a defense.

If your BIL already had a diagnosis of dementia in his medical records prior to him "signing" the PoA, I'd say you have a legal case.

If you hadn't signed as a witness for the PoA it is very possible the niece would have found someone else to be the witness. In my state family is not allowed to "witness" the PoA signing, not sure in your state.

You can choose to contest the PoA -- but if you succeed and are not willing/able to his caregiver/advocate, then who would? He would probably become a ward of the county, which may not be the worst outcome.

If she switched him to another clinic it may be for convenience, as caregiving needs to also work for the caregiver since it is a lot of work.

I'm sorry for the distress this is causing you, and for the rift it's creating in your family. You made an innocent mistake by witnessing the signing under pressure but even if you hadn't, she may still have gotten the PoA paperwork "completed". She may have thought she was doing a "good thing", albeit not legally, so that your BIL wouldn't become a ward of the state and then all family lose control over his care decisions and management.
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First, I would see an elder care attorney. I would think there could be some issues with the POA. But even if there is, you may still have an issue because, I would think, his sister and niece would likely have more authority than you because they are related to him. However, that would be a decision for a judge. That’s why you should see an elder care attorney, if you have the funds to do so.
You are showing great love and concern for your BIL. That is admirable. But you may need to wash your hands of his care.
I don’t wish to be a wet cloth on the fire you need to express. You’re doing a great job.
Do what you can legally and then move on.
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Babs2013 Jan 2022
You are not the first one to tell me that and I am listening that is why I do what I can and step back.
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Get a lawyer, like yesterday.
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Babs2013: Something seems to be majorly amiss here. I am not sure who "forced you" to sign anything in regard to Power of Attorney, which wasn't done with a notary public present, nor with any witness at hand. Perchance you will have to retain an elder law attorney. You are NOT the bad guy. It is IMPERATIVE that your BIL's physician is notified about his diabetic needs, which are not being met before it does potential damage to his health.
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Let us know what kind of help we can provide to you.
Go back to attorney to find out what your legal rights are.
Call Adult Protective Services if you feel this is required.
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No, you're not the bad guy here. You've expended a lot in heart and hands for BIL; your distress reflects your care. Feel free to come here to vent any time. Commiserations and suggestions a plenty : )

Notarizing an unwitnessed document appears to be legal as long as the signee(s) are present. smh As Geaton777 noted though, a person with dementia cannot give POA. Who's taking care of BIL's finances?

At the least, taking your concerns to BIL's local aging protective services of an elder being endangered by niece's disregard for his health and doctor's orders may help.
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Babs2013 Jan 2022
I have his social security because of dementia now for 3 yrs. His pension is his and he won't do a POA for financial on that. He has been diagnosed with dementia now for 5 yrs. His neurologist saw what was coming and asked if he was handling his finances I said no that is when I became his representative payee for social security.
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Why are you taking care of someone you don't have any control over? Why are you signing paperwork? You should have said no. How did they force you? Sounds completely ILLEGAL. He has dementia. Why after 11 years are they so concerned? Did they think they could get money out of his estate? Or he's about to pass, so now is a good time to get it?
You need a lawyer. Sounds like the sister and niece just figured this out. Why did they let you take care of him all those years, then suddenly want to control things?
You need a lawyer ASAP. They probably couldn't get a notary bc they wouldn't make it legal. You can prove he's got dementia. If they try anything, remind the hospital they are not legal papers.
You needd a lawyer.
The whole situation is strange.
In the meantime let them talk. He doesn't have a car. So he won't drive. Don't pay for insurance. Don't pay for anything. Stop if you are. I mean your money. Don't let them bulldoze you into signing anything else.
Just get a lawyer ASAP.
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Babs,

If BIL was diagnosed with dementia 5 years ago, the POA cannot be valid!

Did the doctor who did the diagnosis fill out a disability form? We had a doctor fill out one for my dad's guardianship hearing. I don't remember the form number or name but it was a general disability form, asking how long the person was expected to be disabled. The doctor thought that was a pretty crazy question under the circumstances: "It's DEMENTIA."

Something to add to your complaint to adult protective services.
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If you can get ahold of the POA, and see no notary there, then get a lawyer and seek advice.
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