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Wildo, there must be some backstory here, and you'll get far better answers if you let us in on the details of your mother's relationship to everyone who is trying to get her into a nursing home.
The short answer is that if your mom has not been declared incompetent in court, she cannot be medicated and taken somewhere against her will.
She's an adult who can make her own bad choices. If she is living at her home with no or inadequate help, you may have to wait, as some on here have, for a fall, accident or other disaster to befall her.
Have you called Adult Protective Services in her area to report that she is a vulnerable adult?
Wildoceanblue, depending on what stage your Mom has Alzheimer's/Dementia [as per your profile] it usually isn't in the best interest for her to fly anywhere. She could easily panic on the plane and cause a serious situation.
Therefore, if Mom doesn't want to move, which is usually par for the course, one usually cannot force the parent to leave. Usually it takes a serious medical emergency to get the parent out of the house... first to the hospital and then travel to a rehab out of State, then into a nursing home in that State. It's the travel that become a logistical nightmare.
It is best to use ground travel, either by medical Transport which will be expensive... or if Mom can travel by car, then use that mode of transportation but there should be two people on that trip to help Mom, it cannot be done with just one person... too many things could happen.
Wildocean is the mother's professional caregiver. The mother is in a nursing home, and the son wants to move her from her current setting to one which is more convenient to him. Using medications to keep her quiet meanwhile.
Hmm. The question is one of the mother's best interests. And while one can sympathise with the son, who would no doubt like to be able more easily to keep an eye on her, it isn't necessarily true that she would benefit overall from the move.
Wildocean, if you or your managers are acting as your client's advocate here, have you made any assessment of the pros and cons of this idea from your client's point of view?
For example: if she has been in this NH for a very long time and has developed good relationships with the staff, or is frequently visited by people she's known forever, while the son has been nowhere to be seen, there could be a case made for keeping her where she is.
Could you fill us in on the background to your question?
Thank you all for responding to my inquiry. Contrymouse....there is a back story. But since this is a public forum I want to be very careful and respectful to get. Thank you though for ur time.
I am the caregiver for her. She's been in her hme for 50+ yrs. Which she built with her husband, (who has passed away). She lives by herself. 2 ...PP 505's have been given . She has middle stage Dementia. She doesn't want anyone in her hme. But, four wks in, I've been able to go over between 1 to 3 hrs most days. The sibling feels she needs to be in a nursing home and near him. He is investigating how to transport her to his state. Knowingly she will not go of her own free will. I am stressd over this. Medicating an elderly person with Progressive Dementia is not the solution in my opinion. I know she needs help with meals daily, along with the basics. Like I said She is He has contacted
Oops I hit the "Post Answer" before I was finished. She is letting me stay longer as time goes by. But it's a long process. And yes she fell an fractured a rib last wk. Also her Son is working with the elder Care rep. In this state.
I'm so sorry, Wildocean, I managed somehow to misread the information on your profile - d'oh!
As your client is still in her own home but increasingly at risk of injury, it makes it easier to understand the son's anxieties (as you clearly do). It sounds as if you are handling her just right, finding that difficult balance between helping and intruding. But evidently the time is fast approaching where your client's mental capacity will become the key issue, her son will be able to make the difficult decisions for her, and then at least you'll be a familiar and reassuring presence during the handover phase. Very hard situation, she's lucky to have somebody giving it so much careful thought. Please let us know how you're getting on.
I also misread, and am still a bit confused. Ocean, your question states that this YOUR mother, but one of your posts indicates it's someone else's mother, for whom you are a professional (i.e., paid, unrelated) caregiver.
My first thought was of a federal offense, of "taking a person across a state line", i.e., kidnapping. Not to be overly dramatic, medicating someone against her will and removing her to another state I believe is a definition of kidnapping, or some level of that action. I don't think it's custodial interference unless the son has legal authority to care for her (see last paragraph of my post re guardianship proceedings).
I can see that the son is in a difficult situation, but clearly does not understand the devastating effect of removing her from an environment to a new environment, not only against her will but apparently with no care lined except for a tentative facility placement.
Who or what is this "Elder Care Rep" in your state? Is this a governmental body, an agency, someone who's been contracted to work with the son? Have you spoken with them, or has any of this woman's doctors spoken with them to advise against the feasibility of removing her?
BTW, I don't know what a PP 505 is so I googled it and learned it's a physician's report regarding a guardianship hearing. Is the son pursuing guardianship? Have you seen the PP 505 and does it support his guardianship and removal to his state?
What plans has the son made? Will he just put her in a facility, or do he and his mother have family in the area?
Does she have a diagnosis of dementia from a physician? Are you her caregiver or are you related to this woman? Are you posting on behalf of the son who wishes to medicate and move her? Does the son have durable power of attorney for her?
Does the sibling with durable power of attorney get to decide where the mom lives, or the one with health care poa? If , for instance, i choose to put my mom in a memory care closer to us, will my evil bro as durable poa have to pay the bill for it? or can he refuse?
mnbwca, first of all your mother's funds if she has any need to be used to pay for her care. When and if funds run out then she applies for Medicaid or if family so chooses can pay the bill.
I hope you did not make the mistake of taking responsibility for her bills in memory care. You can be held to that. And evil bro may be that as a way to preserve his inheritance.
Sorry to be so negative but some people will go to great lengths to preserve family money for their own use.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
The short answer is that if your mom has not been declared incompetent in court, she cannot be medicated and taken somewhere against her will.
She's an adult who can make her own bad choices. If she is living at her home with no or inadequate help, you may have to wait, as some on here have, for a fall, accident or other disaster to befall her.
Have you called Adult Protective Services in her area to report that she is a vulnerable adult?
Therefore, if Mom doesn't want to move, which is usually par for the course, one usually cannot force the parent to leave. Usually it takes a serious medical emergency to get the parent out of the house... first to the hospital and then travel to a rehab out of State, then into a nursing home in that State. It's the travel that become a logistical nightmare.
It is best to use ground travel, either by medical Transport which will be expensive... or if Mom can travel by car, then use that mode of transportation but there should be two people on that trip to help Mom, it cannot be done with just one person... too many things could happen.
Hmm. The question is one of the mother's best interests. And while one can sympathise with the son, who would no doubt like to be able more easily to keep an eye on her, it isn't necessarily true that she would benefit overall from the move.
Wildocean, if you or your managers are acting as your client's advocate here, have you made any assessment of the pros and cons of this idea from your client's point of view?
For example: if she has been in this NH for a very long time and has developed good relationships with the staff, or is frequently visited by people she's known forever, while the son has been nowhere to be seen, there could be a case made for keeping her where she is.
Could you fill us in on the background to your question?
Contrymouse....there is a back story. But since this is a public forum I want to be very careful and respectful to get. Thank you though for ur time.
2 ...PP 505's have been given .
She has middle stage Dementia. She doesn't want anyone in her hme. But, four wks in, I've been able to go over between 1 to 3 hrs most days. The sibling feels she needs to be in a nursing home and near him. He is investigating how to transport her to his state. Knowingly she will not go of her own free will. I am stressd over this. Medicating an elderly person with Progressive Dementia is not the solution in my opinion. I know she needs help with meals daily, along with the basics. Like I said She is He has contacted
She is letting me stay longer as time goes by. But it's a long process. And yes she fell an fractured a rib last wk. Also her Son is working with the elder Care rep. In this state.
As your client is still in her own home but increasingly at risk of injury, it makes it easier to understand the son's anxieties (as you clearly do). It sounds as if you are handling her just right, finding that difficult balance between helping and intruding. But evidently the time is fast approaching where your client's mental capacity will become the key issue, her son will be able to make the difficult decisions for her, and then at least you'll be a familiar and reassuring presence during the handover phase. Very hard situation, she's lucky to have somebody giving it so much careful thought. Please let us know how you're getting on.
My first thought was of a federal offense, of "taking a person across a state line", i.e., kidnapping. Not to be overly dramatic, medicating someone against her will and removing her to another state I believe is a definition of kidnapping, or some level of that action. I don't think it's custodial interference unless the son has legal authority to care for her (see last paragraph of my post re guardianship proceedings).
I can see that the son is in a difficult situation, but clearly does not understand the devastating effect of removing her from an environment to a new environment, not only against her will but apparently with no care lined except for a tentative facility placement.
Who or what is this "Elder Care Rep" in your state? Is this a governmental body, an agency, someone who's been contracted to work with the son? Have you spoken with them, or has any of this woman's doctors spoken with them to advise against the feasibility of removing her?
BTW, I don't know what a PP 505 is so I googled it and learned it's a physician's report regarding a guardianship hearing. Is the son pursuing guardianship? Have you seen the PP 505 and does it support his guardianship and removal to his state?
What plans has the son made? Will he just put her in a facility, or do he and his mother have family in the area?
Are you her caregiver or are you related to this woman?
Are you posting on behalf of the son who wishes to medicate and move her?
Does the son have durable power of attorney for her?
I hope you did not make the mistake of taking responsibility for her bills in memory care. You can be held to that. And evil bro may be that as a way to preserve his inheritance.
Sorry to be so negative but some people will go to great lengths to preserve family money for their own use.