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It seems like parents are making the wrong decisions at times. Pitting siblings against each other, intentionally or not.
It just becomes a mess. It’s humiliating to deal with having to ask another sibling for permission on decisions if they are the one who is caring and offering to take on the responsibility of that parent.
It seems like they are saying that they are good enough to do the heavy lifting (caregiving) but not handling the finances. So insulting. Is it a matter of trust? I don’t get it.
There are definitely too many cooks in this kitchen. Someone needs to be head chef. If Mom is competent to make decisions, a family meeting should be called and one willing sibling should take over. There is usually one sibling in a family who has a good head for finances and whom the others look up to. If your brother wants to care for Mom just for the income, I’d be a little suspect and very carefully observant of his care of Mom if you agree with this arrangement. Have an attorney draw up a caregiver agreement detailing what is expected of him.
Yes! No surprises and hurt feelings or confusion. Very wise advice and very well stated. Thanks for this response. I would agree a meeting is in order before caregiving begins and all people must agree on what is decided.
If Mom has the money to pay brother, than go to a lawyer and have a care agreement drawn up. Taxes should be deducted as too SS. You will need to acct where all the money went if Medicaid is ever needed.
The best solution for finances is for one person to control the payouts, but for at least one other sibling to be able to view the account online and see if anything is amiss.
I agree with others, but, I'd also consider what mom's needs are. Living close to someone and meeting their needs sounds general. Does he understand that she may need hands on care, meal prep, assistance with personal hygiene, etc. Some people think it means, picking up groceries, mowing the lawn, driving to doctor appointments. They don't get the real picture. Seniors can be embarrassed to reveal just how help they really need.
If he is willing to handle all the tasks associated with caregiving (could be bathing or toileting, personal issues), then why not pay a relative what you would have paid a home care company. The payment to a relative could be an issue when it comes time to go on Medicaid for nursing home, if that happens. You need to find out from an attorney the best way to handle payments in your state - records you need to keep, if he will be paid as contract labor where you have to give him a 1099 for taxes at the end of the year, or withhold from his pay (which would only help him later on when he needs social security to document earnings).
Sounds good to have a willing family member willing to be the caregiver, but I would contact an Elder Law Attorney asap. Depending on the current laws of the state. The income he would be paid could count the same as a service when Medicaid would be nesasary. In FL 12 years ago, prior to Medicaid it was calculated that my income was x as my Mom's caregiver so that was taken into consideration on the look back. But I would definitely seek out an Elder Law Attorney. It is such a comfort to know everything you are doing is correct and finding out what is available to you. Prior I did not know about it. Even though I never took a penny for her care.
Brother who offers to move to be closer to mom, help her, & be paid for it might not realize what he’s getting into. And his help will only increase over time. He might want to stay with mom for a week or 2 to see for himself what is involved now.
If he accepts doing this, then of course he should be paid! With a lawyer well versed in elder care & Medicare writing it up and a tax professional weighing in as well. The suggestion by another poster to include respite care in the caregiver contract was wonderful, as that is usually something often overlooked.
You need to have a contract. And you must realize that he can not "work" 24/7/365. There should be other help that comes in at least a few hours a day a few days a week. And there needs to be a time when he can get fully away by either putting mom in Respite or having someone come in while he gets away. I also suggest that you increase insurance to cover care related injuries. He should also get paid appropriately. If a local agency is getting $20.00 and hour for a caregiver that is NOT a CNA then if your brother is not a CNA he should get close to that. (Not sure what % the agency takes and how much the caregiver gets). Is he going to move in or just move close? If he is going to move in will you include his housing as part of his pay? If so that also needs to be spelled out. (I would not nit pick about utilities as they are on for 1 person or 4, except maybe water usage if you pay for that. Or cable if mom does not have it and brother wants it) This should be a discussion that you all have together. And when your brother can no longer handle this "job" he should be able to give notice just like with any other job. And when he says he needs more help you have to believe him.
You'll need some family meetings and written agreements. Discuss the types of care mom needs and make sure brother is able to provide the care. Discuss how brother will be compensated and write it into a contract. Also discuss how mom will be cared for when brother is sick, injured or taking time off (and he should get regular time off every week). Discuss when will be a termination time for brother's care - usually when mom needs 24/7 care that doesn't allow brother time to care for his own needs.
No one can take care of a person 24/7. It's simply impossible. If you need to choose between using the income to pay a home care company that has ample trained staff to come in and take care of your mother and your brother, choose wisely and choose the company.
That your brother "needs the income" is not your problem but it will become your problem when he's unable to meet her needs, which are only going to increase, or the care he does provide to her is poor. And what happens if he himself gets sick or injured and can't do the job? Then what?
You have DPOA - so does my husband - and it's a huge responsibility. Your responsibility is to your mother, not your brother. I would politely decline his offer. In my opinion, mixing business with family so late in the game is a recipe for disaster.
The new caregiver should have the MPOA as they are the first point of contact on daily care, medication management, etc.
You’ve gotten solid advice regarding seeking an atty as to how to do a care agreement. I think you should have an outside firm - like a CPA - do the taxes / FICA filing that has to be done, likely quarterly. Also does moms taxes and also does brothers. No DIY Quicken / Quickbooks. This will be a plus should mom ever need to apply for LTC Medicaid.
There should be a decision made now as to the status on her home when she dies and by when caregiver bro. needs to leave by AND $ set aside to deal with perhaps 1- 2 years of property costs & probate costs.
But I do have a ? for you bro’s........ Does mom truly have enough $ to afford all this? Does mom have, say, $300,000 - $400,000 to be able to set aside right now & place into in a separate checking account to be the draw account for paying caregiver bro & in home agency?
IF caregiver bro is yo be paid $22 hr @ 40 hr work week and then inhome health agency 24 hrs a week also @ $22 hr. Thats 75k a yr. Does she have enough assets to pay easily $75k, without denting her $, her monthly income, to run a home? & do this for 3-5 years. That’s what the 300k-400k will be needed for.
Moms property & household has its own costs. It’s her home, so on her to pay taxes, insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc. None, none NONE of all that is the caregivers expense imo. If any of you non-caregiver bro’s are thinking that he’s going to also be the maintenance guy, well imo you’re asking for trouble. And it may not be you guys who are the nitpickers in this but your spouses or your kids & their partners. Like “why are you going over to moms again... isn’t Uncle Mike there, he should be doing this for after all he’s there” type of commentary. Uncle Mike isn’t a servant & doormat, he should not be just expected to be there to oversee the household duties just because he’s there. I’m willing to put a case of Prosecco that one of the wives / girlfriends / partners / kids is gonna carp about you having to go over to moms house to deal with stuff cause after all isn’t Uncle Mike getting paid to do........ (fill in the blank) or his family being peeved at you all viewing him as servant. All this needs to be clearly discussed and delineated in the caregiver agreement.
As a wife of a hubs that’s the eldest of 3 very close brothers, in my experience, there’s going to be carping on moms time demands on you all with or without there being oodles of $$ or no $. 4 bro’s there’s going to for sure be 1 DIL who finds your mom to be a real buttrash and resentful of her hubs time dealing with mil drama. If mom doesn’t have easily & readily 300k-400k to pay for care for 3-5 years & the bro’s have to open their wallet to cover costs, expect even more discontent from within your families.
Has there been a needs assessment done on mom? If not I’d really suggest that you all do this. This way it will be on paper as to what mom will likely need for day to day care. & if realistic to be done in home.
"...4 bro’s there’s going to for sure be 1 DIL who finds your mom to be a real buttrash..." I am rolling on the floor, Igloo! And I agree with everything you wrote!!!
IF.... a big IF...your parent has dementia, I would hope both POA's would come to an agreement that placement where mom will be most safe as the dementia progresses is the best option.
Have those involved in the decision making read several posts AND the contributing comments. Everyone needs an important reality check of what it will take to care for your parent as aging conditions take their toll.
Write up a contract where his duties & his money for such are spelled out completely - including vacation time
Your brother is letting you know that he will help but not for free - many here wished they had done so early on in caregiving - however if he doesn't do it then he can be fired just like any other employee - his time at his work could be limited, because he is doing this care, so he may not be able to do overtime etc to increase his income - take off what ever taxes etc necessary so check with an accountant
Consult an elder care (estate planning) attorney. Get it in writing - just as if he were not related to you. Also, spell out what happens when parent passes - does he get house, assets, etc. Make sure all are on same page as far as plan of care - if parent has to be place in SNF what happens, etc. Also, spell out what happens if he is no longer able to provide care.
It is good that your brother is willing to help, but what I see happening is the fact that the needs your mom will need will sooner or later leave you with the only option to hiring someone or placing mom in a care facility. I know this is a difficult thing to handle, but, if your brother isn't able to meet mom's needs and he has given up his work to care for her this would mean that he will also stop his own income for Social Security benefits which he will need when he is older. You would also need to treat him like an employee, meaning taxes and such will need to be considered when he is working for the care of your mom. I highly suggest that you should check with a CELA (Certified Elder Law Attorney) in your area. Although a Elder attorney is good, CELA have a bit more in-depth knowledge which could help you make the right decision.
It’s really important to be sure that brother knows what he is taking on, and is capable of doing it. Many many carers have found that caring for a parent is far worse than they expected. If this happens with your brother, you all have an even harder set of problems to sort out. That’s so even if your brother’s care work is excellent. If your mother becomes very difficult, and brother doesn’t cope well so that there are valid complaints on both sides, it becomes a nightmare.
Is there any way to do a trial period? Could brother negotiate three month’s leave to try it out? And how long do you think this stage will last? If your mother will have to go into care eventually anyway, and brother then has to re-organise his own life, would it be better for all concerned to make that jump now?
Many things need to be considered - - Is he up for the challenge? - Do you need to talk to an elder law attorney? (advised) - Do you need to involve a social worker? - What kind of wages is brother expecting? - That is just for starters.
I don't see anywhere what mom's medical needs are. Does she have dementia?
Nice of bro to offer, but he needs to be fully aware of how difficult caregiving will be, especially if dementia is part of mom's diagnosis. How long will it be possible for bro to live "close". Close will not be close enough in time, mom's care needs will increase and bro would have to live in. When it gets to that point, he will become 24/7/365 is he ready for that? Does mom have the funds for that? Room and board cannot be considered part of his payment. He has to be there so is part of his job.
Mom will become an employer, in every sense of the word. Be responsible for overtime or possibly get into trouble with IRS and state labor laws for not meeting minimum pay requirements. If brother lives in, due to medical reasons, he definitely is an employee.
What does mom's doc say her diagnosis and care needs are? The care bro provides has to be medically necessary. Bro should come stay and visit with mom for a couple of weeks to get just a preview of what being a caregiver means.
Lots of good information here. Most importantly get this done legally with an elder law attorney advising you and preparing the agreement. Without a care agreement Medicaid will consider the money paid to bro as a gift and will penalize mom the amount paid to bro where she is not eligible for Medicaid, then you would have to figure out how will mom get the care she needs.
Have bro find caregiver support meetings in his area before the care begins. That may help him to see the entire picture of what it means to be a caregiver. It is for the strong people, not at all for the meek.
As others have said, you really need to explore ALL the ins/outs of care-giving, esp when pay is involved. 1099's, reporting to IRS, taxes and FICA withdrawn, etc. A good detailed care-giving agreement, legally done and notarized, specifying what it involves and how much recompense. If this isn't done, Medicaid will look at this as gifting and deny coverage if she needs it later. Getting all the details about what needs to be filed, paid and how this "employer" status affects mom, etc. is crucial to this decision.
The bigger concerns are 1) he intends to move "closer", but not with - how does he watch over her (and someone will need to, if not now, definitely as dementia progresses and 2) does he really understand what he is taking on and what will happen as dementia progresses? This is not just caring for an elder, who may need help cleaning, mowing, getting around if they can't drive, getting/bringing in groceries, possible cooking (could at some point involve special meals too.)
This will be VERY involved and will get worse, not better. Would he be able to bathe mom? Safely lift her? Change diapers? Clean the "private" areas? Be there 24/7 to ensure safety? Understand things like sun-downing and how to deal with it? Hallucinations? Fears? Not everyone follows the same path, experiences the same issues or has the same time-line, but these are potentials in the dementia world. It could get even worse than that, or it could be less difficult, there is no way to know before committing to this onerous (and often thankless) task.
After the first place we looked at, both my bros had sticker shock at the cost. They BOTH said for that kind of money they would take her in. Oh boy! OB isn't local and would be on his own caring for her at his place. He also has NO patience and can be abusive, verbally and physically, so that would NOT be a good idea. YB is 10 years younger, still has to work and the condo doesn't have room for mom. But he is/was also clueless about the situation. He felt AL was fine and mom would prefer it. I said no, she could walk out any time. Staff said no. She needed MC. I knew that and I was aware of the ballpark costs, so it was no surprise to me. I also find it somewhat ironic that even though he is working, he doesn't visit often. Recently she refuses to stand/walk without help, so I can't take her to appts anymore. Transport can do local docs/dentist, but her eye treatment place isn't local - this is only 4x a year and now that he's done it a couple of times, he is tired of it!!!
On OB's last trip here to help clear out the condo, he visited mom on arrival with me and another day I suggested he take coffee & donuts up while I get ready to head to condo. When I suggested another visit, he REFUSED, stating he "didn't know what to do with her." This was the person who was going to take her into his home, 24/7? Can't even handle a half hour visit?
I'm relating all that because I don't know you or your brothers, but I think they might be a bit naive about dementia and care-giving, and what it entails, down to the nitty-gritty. Note that my bros offered/suggested taking her in but I did not. There are MANY reasons I can't do it, but I was much more aware about dementia, what progression it might take, etc because I took the time to learn about it when I realized mom was having cognitive issues. I knew there was no way I could even think about taking her in. If your brother is not aware of what it takes and how it will go, this is going to be a disaster in the making!
Other than some $, what's in this for him? Does he think he's going to make a fortune caring for mom? Care-givers really don't make that much money and it has to be one of the more difficult jobs out there, physically and emotionally draining even if you aren't related.
Think carefully before jumping into this pool. It might be full of gators.
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It just becomes a mess. It’s humiliating to deal with having to ask another sibling for permission on decisions if they are the one who is caring and offering to take on the responsibility of that parent.
It seems like they are saying that they are good enough to do the heavy lifting (caregiving) but not handling the finances. So insulting. Is it a matter of trust? I don’t get it.
If he accepts doing this, then of course he should be paid! With a lawyer well versed in elder care & Medicare writing it up and a tax professional weighing in as well. The suggestion by another poster to include respite care in the caregiver contract was wonderful, as that is usually something often overlooked.
And you must realize that he can not "work" 24/7/365.
There should be other help that comes in at least a few hours a day a few days a week.
And there needs to be a time when he can get fully away by either putting mom in Respite or having someone come in while he gets away.
I also suggest that you increase insurance to cover care related injuries.
He should also get paid appropriately. If a local agency is getting $20.00 and hour for a caregiver that is NOT a CNA then if your brother is not a CNA he should get close to that. (Not sure what % the agency takes and how much the caregiver gets).
Is he going to move in or just move close?
If he is going to move in will you include his housing as part of his pay? If so that also needs to be spelled out. (I would not nit pick about utilities as they are on for 1 person or 4, except maybe water usage if you pay for that. Or cable if mom does not have it and brother wants it)
This should be a discussion that you all have together.
And when your brother can no longer handle this "job" he should be able to give notice just like with any other job. And when he says he needs more help you have to believe him.
That your brother "needs the income" is not your problem but it will become your problem when he's unable to meet her needs, which are only going to increase, or the care he does provide to her is poor. And what happens if he himself gets sick or injured and can't do the job? Then what?
You have DPOA - so does my husband - and it's a huge responsibility. Your responsibility is to your mother, not your brother. I would politely decline his offer. In my opinion, mixing business with family so late in the game is a recipe for disaster.
You’ve gotten solid advice regarding seeking an atty as to how to do a care agreement. I think you should have an outside firm - like a CPA - do the taxes / FICA filing that has to be done, likely quarterly. Also does moms taxes and also does brothers. No DIY Quicken / Quickbooks. This will be a plus should mom ever need to apply for LTC Medicaid.
There should be a decision made now as to the status on her home when she dies and by when caregiver bro. needs to leave by AND $ set aside to deal with perhaps 1- 2 years of property costs & probate costs.
But I do have a ? for you bro’s........ Does mom truly have enough $ to afford all this? Does mom have, say, $300,000 - $400,000 to be able to set aside right now & place into in a separate checking account to be the draw account for paying caregiver bro & in home agency?
IF caregiver bro is yo be paid $22 hr @ 40 hr work week and then inhome health agency 24 hrs a week also @ $22 hr. Thats 75k a yr.
Does she have enough assets to pay easily $75k, without denting her $, her monthly income, to run a home? & do this for 3-5 years. That’s what the 300k-400k will be needed for.
Moms property & household has its own costs. It’s her home, so on her to pay taxes, insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc. None, none NONE of all that is the caregivers expense imo. If any of you non-caregiver bro’s are thinking that he’s going to also be the maintenance guy, well imo you’re asking for trouble. And it may not be you guys who are the nitpickers in this but your spouses or your kids & their partners. Like “why are you going over to moms again... isn’t Uncle Mike there, he should be doing this for after all he’s there” type of commentary. Uncle Mike isn’t a servant & doormat, he should not be just expected to be there to oversee the household duties just because he’s there. I’m willing to put a case of Prosecco that one of the wives / girlfriends / partners / kids is gonna carp about you having to go over to moms house to deal with stuff cause after all isn’t Uncle Mike getting paid to do........ (fill in the blank) or his family being peeved at you all viewing him as servant. All this needs to be clearly discussed and delineated in the caregiver agreement.
As a wife of a hubs that’s the eldest of 3 very close brothers, in my experience, there’s going to be carping on moms time demands on you all with or without there being oodles of $$ or no $. 4 bro’s there’s going to for sure be 1 DIL who finds your mom to be a real buttrash and resentful of her hubs time dealing with mil drama. If mom doesn’t have easily & readily 300k-400k to pay for care for 3-5 years & the bro’s have to open their wallet to cover costs, expect even more discontent from within your families.
Has there been a needs assessment done on mom? If not I’d really suggest that you all do this. This way it will be on paper as to what mom will likely need for day to day care. & if realistic to be done in home.
Have those involved in the decision making read several posts AND the contributing comments. Everyone needs an important reality check of what it will take to care for your parent as aging conditions take their toll.
Your brother is letting you know that he will help but not for free - many here wished they had done so early on in caregiving - however if he doesn't do it then he can be fired just like any other employee - his time at his work could be limited, because he is doing this care, so he may not be able to do overtime etc to increase his income - take off what ever taxes etc necessary so check with an accountant
Make sure all are on same page as far as plan of care - if parent has to be place in SNF what happens, etc.
Also, spell out what happens if he is no longer able to provide care.
Is there any way to do a trial period? Could brother negotiate three month’s leave to try it out? And how long do you think this stage will last? If your mother will have to go into care eventually anyway, and brother then has to re-organise his own life, would it be better for all concerned to make that jump now?
- Is he up for the challenge?
- Do you need to talk to an elder law attorney? (advised)
- Do you need to involve a social worker?
- What kind of wages is brother expecting?
- That is just for starters.
Nice of bro to offer, but he needs to be fully aware of how difficult caregiving will be, especially if dementia is part of mom's diagnosis. How long will it be possible for bro to live "close". Close will not be close enough in time, mom's care needs will increase and bro would have to live in. When it gets to that point, he will become 24/7/365 is he ready for that? Does mom have the funds for that? Room and board cannot be considered part of his payment. He has to be there so is part of his job.
Mom will become an employer, in every sense of the word. Be responsible for overtime or possibly get into trouble with IRS and state labor laws for not meeting minimum pay requirements. If brother lives in, due to medical reasons, he definitely is an employee.
What does mom's doc say her diagnosis and care needs are? The care bro provides has to be medically necessary. Bro should come stay and visit with mom for a couple of weeks to get just a preview of what being a caregiver means.
Lots of good information here. Most importantly get this done legally with an elder law attorney advising you and preparing the agreement. Without a care agreement Medicaid will consider the money paid to bro as a gift and will penalize mom the amount paid to bro where she is not eligible for Medicaid, then you would have to figure out how will mom get the care she needs.
Have bro find caregiver support meetings in his area before the care begins. That may help him to see the entire picture of what it means to be a caregiver. It is for the strong people, not at all for the meek.
The bigger concerns are 1) he intends to move "closer", but not with - how does he watch over her (and someone will need to, if not now, definitely as dementia progresses and 2) does he really understand what he is taking on and what will happen as dementia progresses? This is not just caring for an elder, who may need help cleaning, mowing, getting around if they can't drive, getting/bringing in groceries, possible cooking (could at some point involve special meals too.)
This will be VERY involved and will get worse, not better. Would he be able to bathe mom? Safely lift her? Change diapers? Clean the "private" areas? Be there 24/7 to ensure safety? Understand things like sun-downing and how to deal with it? Hallucinations? Fears? Not everyone follows the same path, experiences the same issues or has the same time-line, but these are potentials in the dementia world. It could get even worse than that, or it could be less difficult, there is no way to know before committing to this onerous (and often thankless) task.
After the first place we looked at, both my bros had sticker shock at the cost. They BOTH said for that kind of money they would take her in. Oh boy! OB isn't local and would be on his own caring for her at his place. He also has NO patience and can be abusive, verbally and physically, so that would NOT be a good idea. YB is 10 years younger, still has to work and the condo doesn't have room for mom. But he is/was also clueless about the situation. He felt AL was fine and mom would prefer it. I said no, she could walk out any time. Staff said no. She needed MC. I knew that and I was aware of the ballpark costs, so it was no surprise to me. I also find it somewhat ironic that even though he is working, he doesn't visit often. Recently she refuses to stand/walk without help, so I can't take her to appts anymore. Transport can do local docs/dentist, but her eye treatment place isn't local - this is only 4x a year and now that he's done it a couple of times, he is tired of it!!!
On OB's last trip here to help clear out the condo, he visited mom on arrival with me and another day I suggested he take coffee & donuts up while I get ready to head to condo. When I suggested another visit, he REFUSED, stating he "didn't know what to do with her." This was the person who was going to take her into his home, 24/7? Can't even handle a half hour visit?
I'm relating all that because I don't know you or your brothers, but I think they might be a bit naive about dementia and care-giving, and what it entails, down to the nitty-gritty. Note that my bros offered/suggested taking her in but I did not. There are MANY reasons I can't do it, but I was much more aware about dementia, what progression it might take, etc because I took the time to learn about it when I realized mom was having cognitive issues. I knew there was no way I could even think about taking her in. If your brother is not aware of what it takes and how it will go, this is going to be a disaster in the making!
Other than some $, what's in this for him? Does he think he's going to make a fortune caring for mom? Care-givers really don't make that much money and it has to be one of the more difficult jobs out there, physically and emotionally draining even if you aren't related.
Think carefully before jumping into this pool. It might be full of gators.