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So my 85 year old grandfather can no longer walk - he spends all day either in bed, or is moved to a chair.



His caregivers (his 85 year old wife and 60 year old daughter) are becoming increasingly desperate and stressed dealing with him. He takes water tablets and also has a prostate issue so is FREQUENTLY needing to urinate - he feels the urge to go at least once an hour.



They used to make him wear adult diapers/nappies/pads and would clean him up after but due to how frequently he needs to go, they stopped this.



His current routine is as follows:



1. He shouts that he needs to 'go'
2. He pulls down his diaper/nappy
3. His wife (my grandfather) fetches a bottle, he places 'himself' inside the bottle and urinates



That's what's meant to happen.



However, as he is always sitting when he does this (he cannot stand up to urinate), most of the time his urine ends up spraying upwards, as he has difficulty "aiming". This means he nearly always ends up urinating over himself and on the chair under him and again needs cleaning up.



They have tried different bottles with different shaped openings, no luck.



How can they fix this?



How can he urinate whilst sitting down without causing a mess/spilling/spraying urine? Is there a particular device or a bottle with a better design he could use.



Please do not suggest catheters or similar as this is not feasible for them.



Thanks

Maybe you aren’t familiar with this type .

A Texas catheter goes on like a condom . This could work for them all .
It is literally a condom , the end of it is connected to tubing and a urine collection bag . No pain , nothing internal . Very easy to use .

He can pee normally when he needs too, whether he is in bed or chair .
Essentially it is the same as your bottle method but without the mess .

It can be left on for periods of time as well , to avoid on and off and accidents .
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Arthur120 Jun 24, 2024
Thanks for the suggestion - I spoke to an incontinence nurse about this but to be blunt - his genitalia isn't suitable for a device like this.
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His wife should hold the top of the container against the groin to ensure no spillage comes out. And if he’s capable of learning, train him on how to do that himself.
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Arthur120 Jun 24, 2024
Thanks for the reply. He does not follow instructions well and has been repeatedly told to hold it differently - he doesn't seem to learn. They have tried holding the container closer (so it almost makes a seal), but it still seems to leak. To be blunt, he has very small genitalia and it is difficult to control the direction/flow of urine unless he is standing up but that isn't possible now.
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You stop accommodating such activity and purchase anti-strip jumpsuits for him so he can no longer access his disposable briefs.

silverts.com

adaptive clothing
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Is grandpa on hospice , or is he having any help come in to give your relatives a break ?

Even an anti strip suit may not be easy for an 85 and 60 year old to manage with a bedridden person .

Grandpa is calling the shots here . This has to change . The caregivers call the shots now so they don’t end up exhausted and in the hospital themselves . Grandpa needs to wear nappies again .
And if he pees a little at a time it will pull the moisture away . Just like a babies diaper . It may not be necessary to change it every hour or after just one small pee .

Perhaps grandpa is not able to understand that this is killing his wife and daughter , dementia ???

Either way , his stubbornness is an issue .
When an elderly is uncooperative with family and thinks they are the boss , then they need to be taken care of by “ non family “. I suggest that you strongly encourage placement for grandpa before one or both of these women collapse .
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sp196902 Jun 25, 2024
"When an elderly is uncooperative with family and thinks they are the boss , then they need to be taken care of by “ non family “. I suggest that you strongly encourage placement for grandpa before one or both of these women collapse ." Exactly this Way.
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Is he too small for a penis clamp?
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/patient-education/incontinence-clamp
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sp196902 Jun 25, 2024
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Maybe time to place him.
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It sounds like it may be time to place him, but what if he started using a condom catheter? They are non-invasive and he can sit there and peeing the day long anf all they'd have to do is change the catheter collection bag.
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sp196902 Jun 25, 2024
The OP says his anatomy is so tiny that he cannot use a condom catheter or any other method of controlling his urine it seems.
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Simply put, this seems untenable and even cruel to all involved. An 85 year old wife and daughter should not be in such an impossible position, trying to accomplish what cannot reasonably be done. An elderly man who cannot stand shouldn’t have to yell and have urine going all over. Just a disaster over and over daily. He needs to be in adult diapers full time with others to help as he’s now a two person assist. The health cost to all involved is far too high in a home setting without outside daily help coming in
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sp196902 Jun 25, 2024
According to OP he does wear diapers but he pulls them down and the piss goes everywhere.
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There are CONDOM Catheters that might work.
These do not involve inserting a tube into the urethra.

Frankly this is what the incontinence briefs are there for.
Yes they have to change him when he is wet.
There are inserts or absorbent pads that are made to absorb extra fluid so that could be used in conjunction with the incontinence brief.

This is a situation where they either need a caregiver that can come in daily and help or he should be placed in Skilled Nursing. (reason I mention Skilled Nursing rather than Assisted Living is I do not think AL will take a bed bound person as they can not use equipment to transfer him. )
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This man needs to wear a disposable brief 24/7 and urinate in IT. You've said all the other options won't work, so what's left? There are no plastic urinals made that I'm aware of for adults with extra small genitals, so that forces you to use what IS available, and not working. Why should your grandmother suffer like this when he can just use a brief like so many other elders???

Either that or place him in managed care where he'll be fitted with a disposable brief. Nobody is going to come running every hour to help grandpa urinate in a bottle where he sprays urine everywhere, it's unrealistic and unfair to caregivers everywhere.

Part of old age and infirmity is recognizing and accepting our limitations w/o insisting others sacrifice their lives to accommodate our wishes.
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waytomisery Jun 25, 2024
Yes ! Especially love the last sentence .
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What would you consider a solution?

He no longer gets to call the "shots" (sorry for the pun).

Disposable briefs + anti-strip jumpsuit (silverts.com)

He will get adjust to going into the brief. He's heading in that direction no matter what, even in a facility. No one is going to attend to him every hour on the hour. And you shouldn't, either.
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waytomisery Jun 25, 2024
“ He’s heading in that direction no matter what “.

My mother used to say “ We leave this world the same way we start out , Bald , no teeth and in diapers “ .
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Hollister makes a urinary collection bag for men who can not use a condom catheter . It’s basically a colostomy bag with clamped tubing at bottom that can emptied ( into a urinal or the toilet ) .

I doubt this would work though because grandpa pulls off his diaper and yells for the bottle. I suspect he would pull off colostomy type bag as well . He probably won’t understand while the bag has adhesive and sticks on his skin.

But thought I would mention it for someone else who has a relative who may understand and could use this .
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Mensliberty.com , not a condom catheter, it adheres to the person and Medicare pays for it.
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So, no condom catheter would he be able ....NOT allowing him to place penis in the bottle.. Someone else has to do it. I see this problem constantly. All the time.

Or, wrap women's period pads around penis and he urinates in those so once he is finished, change the pads.

Care givers killing themselves taking care of elderly male who clearly has no idea what this is doing to wife and daughter. Should not be. Do not allow this male to be in control! Please! Dementia? Put him in adult diapers, not those pullups !!!!

Again, I was able to wrap around a men's penis using those women's period pads then draping a disposable plastic pad under that, across tops of thighs to catch drips.
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waytomisery Jun 28, 2024
Interesting , using period pads .

I guess for a male who didn’t pee as often , but peed larger amounts , maybe holding a baby diaper there . Just a thought .🤔
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My question is to ask the doctor...
Does your Grandfather need to have the water tablets? Usually, that is frowned upon for older adults. Could the water tablets be reduced???
Urinating every hour seems like too much. My suggestion is to look at this from a medical standpoint, first.
When you take a water tablet, urination comes on quickly.
Best wishes.
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Lots of useful tips and resources in this chat. My husband is approaching the point where he will be bedbound fulltime soon. These resources will be handy when the time comes. Thanks.
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Not sure this would work, but when a male relative had prostatectomy, one side result was a much smaller penis (due to length of urethra removed and swelling). Anyway, during the recovery period he had trouble urinating without spraying all over so he used a silicone women's urinal with it cut off a bit at the top to fit his anatomy better. That worked very well for him, but he was standing. I checked and they bought a Dinblex brand on Amazon, but it's no longer available but there are similar products. It's a thought. They also looked at a "Takuyda Urinal Bottle" that was unisex (on Amazon) that looked promising with a large soft pliable funnel but the other worked well and was more portable to them so never bought that but might be a solution for this situation. But I do agree with others that Dad/Grandpa has to compromise and work with his caregivers. I've found with my parent that you can drive yourself crazy trying to find solutions to please your LO but in the end it doesn't work for long anyway and you are just putting off the inevitable. I think I was only fooling myself into thinking I could keep things as normal as possible. I had to accept there was just a new normal. I also agree that if your family has not contacted a home care hospice for help, you should consider that. It is covered by Medicare where I live. It is not just for immediate end of life, it is for people like your grandfather who are in a terminal situation and not expected to improve but to continue to decline. My father who passed away in 2011 was in this type of hospice for 2.5 years and it was a life saver for me. (For those with LO in care homes in this situation, they can also get hospice for additional help. My dad was in a Nursing Home.)
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This might be the answer you’re looking for. Link:

https://www.biorelief.com/product/retracted-penis-pouch/

Meant for retracted penis, but if that isn’t your granddad’s actual problem, phone the company and see if this product could work for your granddad. You haven’t told us explicitly what his nether-problem is. Does he have retracted penis? Micro penis? Penis enfolded in layers of fat? Maybe this product can help. I hope so.

The directions shown on website link are very clear. I hope this works out for your family. We are all sending good thoughts your way.
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PureWick is now available for men. My husband used it recently while in the hospital. Especially great at night.
https://www.purewickathome.com/all-products
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Plastic urinal can help.

Penis goes into urinal whether sitting, laying or standing. All hospitals use them.

No spraying, hitting walls or himself or caregiver.

Depends are incredibly helpful for my husband. The OTC stipend covers most of the cost. Feces is still a challenge. Just like babies they need to be changed frequently to prevent UTI.

talk to the doctor but maybe we don’t need those water pills???????
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I am sorry you are going through this. I feel your struggles and frustration.

My dad has urinary frequency and prostate issues too. For my dad, I currently use incontinence briefs, with tabs, not the pull-ups.

Then I also use 2 men's guards pads. They are positioned in such a way inside the incontinence brief, that they are, at the top, side by side. Then, as they go downward in the brief, sort of diagonal, so that the guard pads overlap eachother a little towards the bottom. They are easily changed out as often as necessary. Just take them out, clean him up, place new ones in. If the brief gets wet, then I change it too.

I originally started out with pull ups and he would use a urinal. He would pull down the front of his pull-up and place the urinal. Eventually, this didn't work, as he declined and things got messy. It became too much trouble. Eventually I figured out the routine we have now. The change and process was a challenge. It's not always perfect. At first I would just say, and remind him, "ok, it's ok to go, that's what the undergarments are for now, we don't have to use the urinal anymore, you don't have to use your hands, you can just go, etc....

It's so hard. He adjusted though. Yes, he forgets. But for the most part, just ongoing reminders. Accepting he can't do this, or things, anymore is difficult. It's a learning curve. Sometimes I just have to remind myself just as often that, ok, he can't do this anymore, I need to accept it, what's the best work-a-round, how can I adjust things to make it feasible, better, for both of us.

Hope this helps. Hope you are able to find a way that works out better for you. Hang in there. Maybe you can also get some help to come in too.
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When my late husband was alive but very ill - the hospital gave me a plastic urinal with a wide opening to use. I'd just gently help guide him into the opening and poof - done - no spilling or spraying. The urinal has a tilt to it so it's easy to place it while laying, sitting or standing. I haven't had the need to use one just yet with dad, as I have him in Diapers. You might speak with his doctor about getting him off of the water pill or lowering the dose at least - so he's not urinating so much - also check for UTI (urinary tract infection) that can also cause the constant urge to urinate. Good luck! I'm 68yrs old taking care of my 96yr old Dad who has Lewy Body Dementia. It's a journey for sure! Take care.
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Arthur120: Pose your question to your grandfather's urologist.
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I have the same problem with my husband. I Use a female urinal purchased at cvs. It fits close up to the thigh even with a small penis. Can also use when sitting in a chair. Just make sure you place it under the legs for a better fit. Good luck
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waytomisery Jul 1, 2024
I’m glad you posted this .

I thought of this too but didn’t post it because somewhere OP said he doesn’t listen to direction , wants to hold the bottle ( urinal ? ) himself his way .

@ OP , a female urinal is worth a try because he rips off diapers anyway .
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As I mentioned before, the ladies urinal lets you seat it to his groin. Won’t leak if he is sitting. I Even leave it in all night but my husband sleeps on the same position all night.
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Get him out of the house and into an AL facility. He is too much for his family to deal with at home.
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It is time for placement in a skilled nurse facility. His wife and daughter are being worked to death.
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I've read other answers and your repsonses - I too, would have suggested a condom catheter, but that won't work.
If he knows when he needs to go, and is pulling down the diaper, and waiting for someone to fetch him a container to urinate into,
Instead of getting a container and attempting to hold it in place for him, can the two women transfer him to a commode chair? The commode chair can be placed right up next to the bed or chair he is in, so it's just a matter of standing him up, and pivoting a quarter turn to sit on the commode.
Depending on his size and their strength, if this is achievable, they may find it easier than the current situation.

Or find a way to keep him from pulling the diaper down. Maybe just covering with elastic waist pants will make it harder for him to access. And, yes, someone is going to need to change the diaper frequently. These two women need an aide to come in and help! Or place him in a nursing home, before it kills them!
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After having the same problem with my 93 yr old dad-- I found on Amazon a urinal with hose he can use sitting up----I'm trying to post picture but I don't see how to on this site. On Amazon type in Urinals for me with hose-----it has a blue handle and area he pees into with 4' hose and container. It works great!
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I am not a man, but in searching the internet for pure wick and other devices I have seen there are a couple for men with rubber ends which cover the penis completely and I guess don’t leave an upper opening gaping open which would allow for spraying out of the top. It looks like a condom, the top of which is closed and attached to a tube which siphons the urine away into a canister. And instead of putting it on when he has to go, leave it on except for when you wash him and/or both. Keeping urine off him is important and the urine would be immediately siphoned away from him every time he urinates. Also it would solve the problem of everyone hurrying in when he yells the alarm. These systems have a motor which suctions the urine away into a canister and he doesn’t stay in contact with anything wet. Cost of the machine is over $300 and for women is $200+ per month for the catheters, but a lot, not all of the urine ends up in the canister. The system might work better for men than women, but lying in a pint of urine is better than a quart, I guess.
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