For example: elder says something totally illogical and when the same situation arises, you simply bring up the illogical point.
My mom, who was being the little princess, tried on some elastic waist jeans as they would be easier for her to wear out. Both were too large so I had to take them back. I asked if she would like to try a smaller size.
Answer: "I don't want to try on clothes that don't fit."
A few days later when she wanted to try on some pants that previously had been too small I simply asked 'Why do you want to try on clothes that don't fit?'
Seemed to confuse her, then it annoyed her. I let it go at that.
I miss her terribly, you know. That bit not so much though. Hugs to you.
Baiting means deliberately setting out to cause pain to someone emotionally and I don't think you have been doing that at all. If you have of course then I take all that back ... but I think I have gotten where you are now. Go see a doc and get some meds for yourself - you need to be calmer and meds would help you
No, I really can't walk away. There are many here in dysfunctional families (there is a whole thread to it). If I was really successful, I wouldn't be there. However, I need a place to stay, I can go downstairs, I have other hobbies to keep me occupied.
Mom has calmed down a hell of a lot since the 'glory days'. I walked out when I was 24 and I think that was a real wake up call for her. Even though she blamed everyone and everything else, I think deep down she knew she was the primary cause. So, she is behaving a lot better. Which is gratifying. The only trait that has not gone away is manipulative behavior ("I don't want to try on clothes that don't fit.") because she doesn't like changing a type of clothes. It is as if she really cannot state the fact outright "I don't like this type of clothing", rather tries some innane excuse. That is what will set me off and I'll ask the same question back when the same situation arises.
It is not like I constantly berate, snark, etc. It tends to emerge when I know she is being manipulative. Again, it does not occur very often.
When she goes... I really have no idea what I am going to feel, how I'm going to react. I will be sorry, no one likes death and it is an enemy. So much is lost when the old generation passes. Again, thank all of you for your help and words. I have bad times of the month still as well, that does not help. God help all of us in this. As for when I really get old? There will be no one. Period. I am on my own and I think that is as it should be.
The art is to make the agreement sound normal. So IF you truly don't agree with something say I can see why you like this and they ARE nice but I prefer ......
Or if she wants you to take her somewhere and you have something else that needs doing then say - Yes I will take you there but not today - as I have something else planned .....then before she can scream at you for not jumping to attention immediately add what day would you like to go?
I keep an arsenal of excuses : I hear they have a school trip going there today - or it will be too busy their sale starts today - or It's a bit late now they will be closing shortly after we get there and I thought we could have lunch out too - that would be good wouldn't it - anything that will distract
You are not necessarily doing anything wrong per se - and you will NEVER get it right every time - you haven't a hope in hell of doing that, but I find if I partially agree then I get a much better result than if I just say yes all the time - because let's face it - your parent may have dementia but they haven't lost everything yet and she still KNOWS deep inside when you are just patronising her - the days when the dots join up for once she still recognises what you are doing too by the sounds of it!!!! You my dear were caught out in the act! Don't sweat it Olly My mum catches me out all the damned time and I think I have it sussed. All of sudden we get a day when she can join more of the dots than usual and hey I am trapped again! Time to go out into the garden again!!! good luck sweetheart
It will serve no purpose in YOUR life to do what you are doing - this is not pay back - this is rise above that. I can see from your writing that you are not naturally that sort of person - I also know the desire to lash out when the darkness visits you - for these are horrible moments. At those times I definitely walk out of the room and get myself back under control and it is not easy but I do it because things have changed and Mum is now VULNERABLE just as YOU were vulnerable when you were abused. But I didn't want to become my Mum and I am damned sure you don't want to become yours either.
You are definitely not alone in suffering abuse - many of us have and some only find out about things they didn't know once their loved ones release that information through dementia.
I have to say that if anyone even THINKS you were baiting your Mum deliberately to cause her angst they would be right in shouting ABUSE and god knows you are the last person to deserve that given what you went through, but you need to be aware it could happen. It will be no use to shout but she did this and that to me
What I am really saying is that if you cannot rise above what happened to you then get your Mum into care - Olly is right, if one day it gets too much for you and you snap you could find yourself in prison or perhaps worse still in a mental institute if the courts deemed you guilty by reason of mental defect (however temporary that may have been and however unintentional that may have been). Given your childhood that would be so unfair on you.
It does seem that you haven't come to terms with what happened to you. I won't use the term gotten over - you never get over abuse - you only ever learn coping mechanisms. If you ever learn how to forgive your Mum - tell me because I haven't learned that one yet.
I have learned that I am worthy however - OK sometimes the veil of worthiness slips but for the most part I hold it close to me. I have learned that Mum can still whine bitch and moan and that it doesn't alter the fact that I am stronger and that *I* now act as *her* protector and guardian - the only difference is *I* do it properly whereas she didn't. The day I stop being able to do that is the day I stop care-giving.
So with kindness I say don't bait your Mum - it's not right, and you know it's not right or you wouldn't have asked the question now would you xxx
You might want to start a separate post on this topic, and explain with some examples what you need help with
I think you were baiting us a bit. You ask about baiting a person you are caring for. When someone expresses the opinion that that is not a good thing to do, then you jump in with the details you held back -- that you were abused as a child. Then you could get all self-righteous. Did that feel good?
I suggest therapy for you, to help you heal from your lousy childhood, and I definitely suggest that you not be a hands-on caregiver for your mother.
I do want to ask the others, though...you say you just walk away to avoid feeding delusions. Every time I try that with my 84 yr old mother w/dementia, it just serves to tick her off. She starts screaming at me to come back & answer her...even if I've answered her 5 times already. I've also tried just agreeing with her & THAT ticks her off because she says I'm just patronizing her or she's mad that I don't have my own opinion. Is there some other "technique" to walking away that I'm not doing right & that's why she gets mad?
I've basically read over this thread and several others from the past. I'm tired tonight and I may have missed completely by what you mean by bait the person you are caring for.
It does sound that you have been so deeply injured by your mom that I think any therapist worth their salt would tell you not to involve yourself in the direct hands on care of your mother both for your sake and for yours.
For some reason the word "baiting brings up images of Pavlove's dog and my giving my lab treats in training him. Honestly, the treats are bait but praising the dog for doing the right thing along with giving them the treat helps with both the training process and one's relationship with a dog like a lab which are very loving and quite smart.
You didn't deserve what you experienced as a child or now as an adult child, plus she's not going to change by you doing so much for her and suddenly become Marry Popinns. I think you may benefit from asking yourself what's the bait that is keeping you stuck there?
There exists a temptation too great for you to act out on the past, even if in the present your mom has changed. If she has, then great for her. Still not good for you though. You don't have to continue to torture yourself in this way, risking you will torture her secretly in return. You and her do not deserve to live that way. Ideally, you would get care for your mom and not actually be her caregiver. You can find forgiveness towards your mother once you have set yourself free. Counseling helps, sometimes.
NOW, is there anything stopping you? How can we help, really? I am guessing you are not really snarky, or you would not have asked your question in the first place, sensing that something was wrong. Take care (of the little girl inside of you).
She has definitely improved, she does not do these things anymore, However, the deliberate stupidity as part of manipulation, control, that she has already done, so doing it now I think is still part of this complex. So I ask her the same question with the same illogical bent. It clears the air. So, I deserve it? On behalf of all children shut in suitcases, bitched at, shown up and undercut by a mom who's in it for self aggrandizement? thank you.
Yeah, I was a horrible child, right??
So, my 2cents for what they are worth is if you are doing it deliberately to hurt then thats callous and vile;if it emerges then rest your mind and try not to do it next time.
Like Lean Cuisine has updated their frozen dinner products from white background packaging to black background packaging. Oh my gosh. It's been a challenge.
The biggest thing I learned was to give an answer that would be ok right now. As adults we learn to answer each other with way more data in the answer than someone in decline needs.
The other thing was to keep it simple. Too much, too long, and too complicated means there will be a problem. This is hard if the person was used to getting very detailed answers and had you trained.
The use of "I don't know", "the doctor said", "the government said", and "the insurance company said" are magical motivators or even defusers. It seems like often, we are the least credible people there are, even if we are 70.
I know it's tempting to go Through The Looking Glass and join in the craziness, but what this boils down to, when you think about it, is mockery. Don't do it. Well, try not to, anyway. We're none of us angels.
That is because the temptation to be mean because of frustration is too great.
Yes, I too have been mean, I would rather be nice, calm, and whatever!!!!
I ask this, because your exchange with her reminds me of my relationship with my mom from several years ago. We've never really gotten along. She started having frequent panic attacks. We moved her to a nice independent living facility to see if she could get stronger and perhaps return home. We would have exchanges like the one you mentioned, completely illogical. The geriatric psychiatrist who was seeing her for the panic attacks encouraged me to take her for a neuropsych assessment. The diagnosis was Mild Cognitive Impairment, which is not dementia, but DOES mean that the elder's reasoning ability is shot. It made me understand where the illogical was coming from.